Did you know there is only one placr in scripture the phrase faith alnoe is used?
- Thread starter Ezek33
- Start date
I believe that scripture is clear that we are saved by faith alone and not by works.
I also believe that good works WILL result from faith.
Jesus said that Christians would be known by the "Fruits" we bear.
I think that is what His brother was saying here also.
That the faith God gives to the believer, will result in good works, but that does not imply that those works provide salvation, rather that they are a bi-product.
Another example is Mark 16:16
Here I believe we can see that He who believes (has faith) is saved
It is not the absence of baptism (works) that condemns, it is the absence of belief (faith)
But if you have faith, then you WILL Baptize, as we are commanded to do.
I appreciate the fact that many people believe that a person who is not baptized is not saved, but I do not agree with that.
I also believe that good works WILL result from faith.
Jesus said that Christians would be known by the "Fruits" we bear.
I think that is what His brother was saying here also.
That the faith God gives to the believer, will result in good works, but that does not imply that those works provide salvation, rather that they are a bi-product.
Another example is Mark 16:16
Here I believe we can see that He who believes (has faith) is saved
It is not the absence of baptism (works) that condemns, it is the absence of belief (faith)
But if you have faith, then you WILL Baptize, as we are commanded to do.
I appreciate the fact that many people believe that a person who is not baptized is not saved, but I do not agree with that.
That is so odd that you believe that seeing that scripture never says that at all, and as I stated the only time faith only is used is to contradict what you believe that is never said in scripture? Personally I cannot see where you are coming from.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
O really?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Salvation is a gift from God. Gifts are not earned but freely and gratefully received.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Salvation is a gift from God. Gifts are not earned but freely and gratefully received.
As a Moderator, I need to remind myself, and anyone else who joins us here, that the doctrine of Justification by Faith alone is conroversial and many denominations do not hold to that doctrine, so let us be VERY! mindful of that fact. And respectful of one another.
Now... Ezek33
Let's talk about this for a moment,
If faith is not enough, and works are necessary.... Wouldn't that imply that God didn't get the job done on His own, and we need to do more in order to be saved?
Doesn't that make the substitutionary atonement of Christ, insufficient?
Or am I completely misunderstanding you?
Now... Ezek33
Let's talk about this for a moment,
If faith is not enough, and works are necessary.... Wouldn't that imply that God didn't get the job done on His own, and we need to do more in order to be saved?
Doesn't that make the substitutionary atonement of Christ, insufficient?
Or am I completely misunderstanding you?
(BO!)
You beat me to the draw...I wasn't going to toss those out just yet!
You beat me to the draw...I wasn't going to toss those out just yet!
I must also state after reading your post I agree with everything you said outside your first statement. We are not saved by faith alone and scripture never says that. We are saved by GRACE Through faith. Not by grace alone and not by faith alone but by grace through faith, and works will be produced by true faith.I believe that scripture is clear that we are saved by faith alone and not by works.
I also believe that good works WILL result from faith.
Jesus said that Christians would be known by the "Fruits" we bear.
I think that is what His brother was saying here also.
That the faith God gives to the believer, will result in good works, but that does not imply that those works provide salvation, rather that they are a bi-product.
Another example is Mark 16:16
Here I believe we can see that He who believes (has faith) is saved
It is not the absence of baptism (works) that condemns, it is the absence of belief (faith)
But if you have faith, then you WILL Baptize, as we are commanded to do.
I appreciate the fact that many people believe that a person who is not baptized is not saved, but I do not agree with that.
Yes, as Faith is a gift from God and we can only have Faith by His Grace in giving it to us.
I couldn't agree more.
You said that much better than I did.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
Real faith will always result in works. Works cannot produce faith. God has given us the great gift of salvation and ordained god works for us to walk in.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
As we are touched by God through His Word by His Spirit we trust that Word and step out (walk by faith) trusting that Word and the leading of His Holy Spirit. Thus works are produced but this can occur only after being born again.
Abraham being the perfect example tried to perform God's work in his own strength and produced an Ishmael. This work of the flesh is still trying to kill the children of promise (God's ability released faith-ward).
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
As we are touched by God through His Word by His Spirit we trust that Word and step out (walk by faith) trusting that Word and the leading of His Holy Spirit. Thus works are produced but this can occur only after being born again.
Abraham being the perfect example tried to perform God's work in his own strength and produced an Ishmael. This work of the flesh is still trying to kill the children of promise (God's ability released faith-ward).
Exactly we are saved by grace through faith, grace nor faith stand alone, nor does faith without works stand alone. The works spoken of in Ephesians that cannot save you are works devoid of faith. It is your own works outside of faith in Christ that cannot save you. However faith without works is just as impotent.O really?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Salvation is a gift from God. Gifts are not earned but freely and gratefully received.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
It is true that the gift of faith allows us to receive His grace which saves us but it is by His grace we are given such faith. Depending on how you phrase it it might be splitting hairs but okay.
And even the faith with which we believe is a gift from God. Eph. 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no-one can boast.
So what does James mean when he says "You see that a person is justified by what he does, and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).
It appears to me that from the time a person is justified by faith (i.e. receives Jesus as his/her personal Saviour), he/she commences a life of sanctification, which is not only a life of faith, but a life lived out in obedience to the commands of the Lord, whose fruit is good works. As James points out faith and good works are inseparable, in the live of a believer. Faith is completed when it becomes not only a decision of the will but results in positive action.
So what does James mean when he says "You see that a person is justified by what he does, and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).
It appears to me that from the time a person is justified by faith (i.e. receives Jesus as his/her personal Saviour), he/she commences a life of sanctification, which is not only a life of faith, but a life lived out in obedience to the commands of the Lord, whose fruit is good works. As James points out faith and good works are inseparable, in the live of a believer. Faith is completed when it becomes not only a decision of the will but results in positive action.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
I respect each of your opinions.
To me it simply means that if your faith is true than good works will naturally be produced and the fruit of that faith.
Take a few moments and read Hebrews Chapter 11 and you will see every great work in scripture was produced as an act of faith:
(red emphasis mine)
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained witness.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that time itself was framed by a command of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying concerning his gifts; and through it, although he died, he still speaks.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated so as not to see death, "and he was not found, because God translated him"; for before his translation he had obtained witness that he was pleasing to God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please God, for it is necessary for the one approaching God to believe that He is, and that He becomes a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, having being warned by God concerning the things not yet seen, being reverent, prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, through which he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go forth to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Heb 11:9 By faith he migrated into a land of promise as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the fellow heirs of the same promise;
Heb 11:10 for he waited for the city having foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 By faith Sarah herself also received power for conception of seed, and she bore a child past the normal age, because she regarded Him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore even from one man they were begotten, and him as good as dead, just as the stars of the sky in multitude, and innumerable as the sand by the seashore.
Heb 11:13 These all died according to faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off and welcoming them, and confessing that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For those saying such things make evident that they seek a fatherland.
Heb 11:15 And indeed if they had remembered that land from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to turn back.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better land, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, had offered up Isaac, and he that received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 of whom it was spoken, "In Isaac your seed shall be called,"
Heb 11:19 considering that even from the dead, God was able to raise him up, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshipped, leaning on the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, remembered concerning the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw a beautiful child; and they did not fear the edict of the king.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called a son of Pharaoh's daughter,
Heb 11:25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to have the temporary pleasure of sin,
Heb 11:26 regarding the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the anger of the king; for he endured as seeing the Unseen One.
Heb 11:28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as through dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, having been encircled for seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the prositute Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32 And what more should I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon, both Barak and Samson and Jephthah, both David and Samuel and the prophets:
Heb 11:33 who through faith overcame kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became mighty in battle, turned to flight the armies of foreigners.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead back by resurrection. And others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, in order that they might obtain a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 Still others took a trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and of prison.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tried, they were slain, being murdered with the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, being in want, being afflicted, being ill treated,
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy, wandering in deserts and mountains and caves, and the holes of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained witness through their faith, did not receive the promise,
Heb 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
To me it simply means that if your faith is true than good works will naturally be produced and the fruit of that faith.
Take a few moments and read Hebrews Chapter 11 and you will see every great work in scripture was produced as an act of faith:
(red emphasis mine)
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained witness.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that time itself was framed by a command of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying concerning his gifts; and through it, although he died, he still speaks.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated so as not to see death, "and he was not found, because God translated him"; for before his translation he had obtained witness that he was pleasing to God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please God, for it is necessary for the one approaching God to believe that He is, and that He becomes a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, having being warned by God concerning the things not yet seen, being reverent, prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, through which he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go forth to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Heb 11:9 By faith he migrated into a land of promise as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the fellow heirs of the same promise;
Heb 11:10 for he waited for the city having foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 By faith Sarah herself also received power for conception of seed, and she bore a child past the normal age, because she regarded Him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore even from one man they were begotten, and him as good as dead, just as the stars of the sky in multitude, and innumerable as the sand by the seashore.
Heb 11:13 These all died according to faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off and welcoming them, and confessing that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For those saying such things make evident that they seek a fatherland.
Heb 11:15 And indeed if they had remembered that land from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to turn back.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better land, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, had offered up Isaac, and he that received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 of whom it was spoken, "In Isaac your seed shall be called,"
Heb 11:19 considering that even from the dead, God was able to raise him up, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshipped, leaning on the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, remembered concerning the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw a beautiful child; and they did not fear the edict of the king.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called a son of Pharaoh's daughter,
Heb 11:25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to have the temporary pleasure of sin,
Heb 11:26 regarding the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the anger of the king; for he endured as seeing the Unseen One.
Heb 11:28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as through dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, having been encircled for seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the prositute Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32 And what more should I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon, both Barak and Samson and Jephthah, both David and Samuel and the prophets:
Heb 11:33 who through faith overcame kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became mighty in battle, turned to flight the armies of foreigners.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead back by resurrection. And others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, in order that they might obtain a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 Still others took a trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and of prison.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tried, they were slain, being murdered with the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, being in want, being afflicted, being ill treated,
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy, wandering in deserts and mountains and caves, and the holes of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained witness through their faith, did not receive the promise,
Heb 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
The thing is, that since the fall, man cannot in any way, or by any power of his own, ... understand, believe, accept, imagine, begin, accomplish, do, or will anything.
We are dead and corrupted as far as anything good is concerned
Ephesians 2:2 2 Timothy 2:26
Therefore, when we say things like "I accepted Jesus", or "I got saved" let us remember that we cannot boast about the great merit in our works apart from God.
Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:31
We can do nothing ourselves, and if good works do not follow faith, then that faith is indeed false.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
More scripture (again red emphasis mine)
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
Again (not to be repetitious) but these verses put it all plainly in proper context. We are saved by God's grace- works are good and should be pursued (as the Spirit leads).
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
I agree and would add that the good works that do follow faith are not of our own, but are done through us by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit living inside of us.The thing is, that since the fall, man cannot in any way, or by any power of his own, ... understand, believe, accept, imagine, begin, accomplish, do, or will anything.
We are dead and corrupted as far as anything good is concerned
Ephesians 2:2 2 Timothy 2:26
Therefore, when we say things like "I accepted Jesus", or "I got saved" let us remember that we cannot boast about the great merit in our works apart from God.
Let him who boasts, boast of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:31
We can do nothing ourselves, and if good works do not follow faith, then that faith is indeed false.
Yes we MUST walk in the Spirit and not in our own flesh because in our flesh there is no good thing.
Yes, and it is true that someone might say this is all just "splitting hairs"
but it is imperative that we understand Justification.
Otherwise, Satan will start to tell us that..."Well, now that you are saved..God "OWES" you something."
(Prosperity Theology.)
Or... "Now that "YOU" have "ACCEPTED" faith.. YOU can become like gods yourselves. (Mormonism, Jehovas Witness)
Or.. "You have to hold your hands just so, and say the words just right, and you have to be this and be that, not like those others, or the "MAGIC" won't work."
(I'll let you figure that one out yourselves.
)