If you had no previous indoctrination you would have to put your teacup experience down to something else. Coincidence maybe. If you were brought up in Tibet you may well be convinced that Buddha had sent you some miraculous message about the teacup. You would believe it nonetheless and with the same fervour you believe that God spoke to you on this occasion.
Learning Genesis
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If you had no previous indoctrination you would have to put your teacup experience down to something else. Coincidence maybe. If you were brought up in Tibet you may well be convinced that Buddha had sent you some miraculous message about the teacup. You would believe it nonetheless and with the same fervour you believe that God spoke to you on this occasion.
I agree with Brother Paul, Silk and Olivia, I have talked to God and He has talked to me, I've heard His voice talking to me in a personal way, through His Word and through other believers, ...I'm talking to you from Tahiti, because God told me to come here, you want scientific proof Tubby, God told me to come to Tahiti on a one way ticket, that's impossible for a non-French citizen, but yet here I am and it was all of God, I didn't do a thing, now, you try it, go to your local airport or even a travel agent and try to buy a one way ticket to Tahiti (or now days you could probably buy one from your computer, so try it).
And similar experiences like Olivia, ...God has told me what tools to take to work every morning, if I listen I find I need the very tool He told me to bring, even though it was not on the list of reparations for the day, this is a third world country and their hygienic codes are not like the States, I've had God tell me what food not to buy, what food served to me to not eat, what areas to not go into, ...the list is too long, 28 years of hearing Gods voice.
So like Olivia and I have both asked, take some quiet time today and ask God, from your heart, if He is real and exists, ...that way you can assure us Calvin is wrong.
In His Love,
Gene
And similar experiences like Olivia, ...God has told me what tools to take to work every morning, if I listen I find I need the very tool He told me to bring, even though it was not on the list of reparations for the day, this is a third world country and their hygienic codes are not like the States, I've had God tell me what food not to buy, what food served to me to not eat, what areas to not go into, ...the list is too long, 28 years of hearing Gods voice.
So like Olivia and I have both asked, take some quiet time today and ask God, from your heart, if He is real and exists, ...that way you can assure us Calvin is wrong.
In His Love,
Gene
You are being given examples of how God works in our lives on a daily basis. You don't need to have "indoctrination" to believe/know in God - you simply need to ask for the proof for yourself. I have sat through a few of these kinds of seeking. And it is clearer if you have somone with faith with you but you can do it on your own. You might want to hear how others found their proof.
You telling me that God told you to go to Tahiti is NOT scientific proof. You made those decisions yourself and although you may like to tell yourself you are working through God, your actions are defined by your own free will. YOU made it happen all by yourself, why not just accept that and be happy about it instead of giving all the credit to God.
Ask for the proof yourself from God. It is not something that our minds made up. But run the "experiment" for yourself. I understand what Gene is saying and believe what he says because I have had experiences like it. I also understand that it is hard to believe on face value without the same background. Even other Christians. It's like if it didn't happen to me - it didn't really happen. We get that. You are ignoring alot of verifiable type proof of an afterlife that has never been available in ages past. Your story was about mortal death.
Tubby, you make me laugh, here's the rest of the story..., it was NOT my idea to come to Tahiti, instead it was my heart's desire to live in Africa, I was signed up with the Peace Corp to be sent to Casablanca to supervise the construction of a methane gas powered electrical plant, everything was in place all I needed was my plane ticket, my intention was to stay there for the duration of my contract and then move down to Kenya and spend the rest of my life there, .....but then God intervened in my life, why, ...because one of His kids had prayed and asked Him for an American husband, that played and instrument and loved working with children, ummm, that's me, and here I am and He made all of the arrangements.
Now go try to buy a one way ticket to Tahiti and convince me you are not a troll.
In His Love,
Gene
Now go try to buy a one way ticket to Tahiti and convince me you are not a troll.
In His Love,
Gene
It was your idea to go to Tahiti whether you believe it or not. You made all the arrangements and if I was given enough access to information I could prove it.
I could well buy a one way ticket to Tahiti, whether or not I was able to stay beyond a 90 day visa would depend on if I stayed illegally or managed to attain residency. I don't know what that would prove either way though.
I could well buy a one way ticket to Tahiti, whether or not I was able to stay beyond a 90 day visa would depend on if I stayed illegally or managed to attain residency. I don't know what that would prove either way though.
One more thing, you want scientific proof, search the passenger list of the Minerve Airlines flight out of San Fransisco International Airport on the evening of March 31st 1991 between 7:00 PM and 9:00PM and you will find one passenger with a one way ticket, ...destination Tahiti and I'm the only one in the history of Minevre Airlines to have ever boarded their plane for Tahiti with a one way ticket and the scuttlebutt is not long afterwards they went out of business for allowing it.
You say you believe only in scientific proof that you can see and believe, well there you have some, do your homework and prove me wrong (your eternal soul depends on it whether you want to believe it or not) and this incident can not be linked to God, in your eyes, in any way.
In His Love,
Gene
You say you believe only in scientific proof that you can see and believe, well there you have some, do your homework and prove me wrong (your eternal soul depends on it whether you want to believe it or not) and this incident can not be linked to God, in your eyes, in any way.
In His Love,
Gene
And how do you know that?
I could well buy a one way ticket to Tahiti, whether or not I was able to stay beyond a 90 day visa would depend on if I stayed illegally or managed to attain residency. I don't know what that would prove either way though.
Wrong...., you would be stopped at the International airport of departure (it's International Law, you don't know what you are talking about), ...until of course you bought a return trip ticket and that would negate the scientific experiment.
Wrong...., you would be stopped at the International airport of departure (it's International Law, you don't know what you are talking about), ...until of course you bought a return trip ticket and that would negate the scientific experiment.
And how do you know that?
...the scuttlebutt is not long afterwards they went out of business for allowing it.
You've convinced me Calvin is right, but our hands are clean, your blood is on your own head, ......you are a troll.
Goodby
...the scuttlebutt is not long afterwards they went out of business for allowing it.
You've convinced me Calvin is right, but our hands are clean, your blood is on your own head, ......you are a troll.
Goodby
So, you got yourself a one way ticket to Tahiti in 1991with a carrier that is now defunct because of their practices. I can not now in 2014 buy a one way ticket to Tahiti because the entry requirements have been made stricter. The fact that I can't do that now and you did that in 1991 is scientific proof of God?
And you were the ONLY person that took advantage of the slack immigration laws at that time to move to Tahiti?
A totally absurd assumption. I Peruvian native may never have had an experience with a balloon (or "indoctrination") and then they do, wondering what is this? Its a balloon...
OH!
Absurd...my only "indoctrination" was in secular humanism replete with its truths and its myths....
The Peruvian native can see and feel a balloon, nobody on Earth questions the existence of a balloon. If I described a latex skin being filled with air it would be immediately obvious what it is, even if the Peruvian had never seen one.
Telling the Peruvian that there is a God requires that he then takes the authors word and description without him ever being able to see it for himself. It requires him to have total faith in what he is being told (and that if he fails to believe, his life from here on in is worthless).
Comparing God to a balloon is irrelevant.
Calvin right??? Hrmph! I'm always right......except on those frequent occasions when I'm not
The others are right on the money with their testimonies about God in their lives.
Here is a couple of brief ones from up here in Australia. (looking down on everyone else
)
They say everyone dreams....well if that be true or not, there was a significant period in my life when either I didn't or I had zero recollection of any dreams when I awoke. Now during that period of my life, I was not yet born alive by the Holy Spirit.
I had a motor vehicle with a defunct radio in it. One Saturday I friend turned it on as we drove along.........radio dead.
That night I dreamed that I got up, went out to the car still in my PJs tried the radio and it worked. OK I recalled the dream...for me at that time it was so unusual that I did just that!! Still in my PJs I went out to the car and tried the radio....it worked. Did I at that time say "Wow there must be a God" No, I just filed the experience away in the 'too hard basket'. Much later I decided to investigate what was with this cantankerous radio as it had stopped..started a few times. Not wanting to get too technical, the culprit turned out to be a 'dry joint' around the AGC bypass circuit. ie. a pesky intermittent fault. Did God miraculously fix my radio? No! the real miracle was preparing me to accept that the physical is but a shadow of reality. Did I at that time become a Christian?...No, that had to come later.
At some time after I became a Christian, my baby child was laying dying in hospital.. I simply had to leave her there to attend to the immediate needs of the other family members. I left the hospital fearing the worst, but praying my heart out for a miracle.
Driving along I heard from the Lord, but it was a funny (odd) answer. I was to phone the Hospital at a certain time and I would at that time get an answer. I obeyed and phoned through to the hospital ward where I could hear the screaming of my child in the background. I was told that there was no change (all the charts BP, Respiration, Temperature were all over the place). I then did believe that my baby was going to be healed!
A few hours later a message came from the Hospital that there was nothing wrong, come pick your child up.
When I got there, I was told by the nursing staff that the very moment I hung the phone up, the baby stopped screaming, all the charts returned to normal, their only concern was that they couldn't feed the baby......(wrong shaped teet).
Officiakl diagnosis........'upper respiratory infection.' Well they had to say something.......but why take 2 spinal taps if the symptoms indicated a URTI??.
But at the end of the day, the real miracle was 1. my obedience
2 the voice of God (I believe) giving me instructions which when obeyed, bore out in the healing of the baby.
A fluke? nahh how could I time my phone call to the exact time of healing?
God is real. And there is no amount of banter, no amount of scientific burblings that can alter reality.
The others are right on the money with their testimonies about God in their lives.
Here is a couple of brief ones from up here in Australia. (looking down on everyone else
)They say everyone dreams....well if that be true or not, there was a significant period in my life when either I didn't or I had zero recollection of any dreams when I awoke. Now during that period of my life, I was not yet born alive by the Holy Spirit.
I had a motor vehicle with a defunct radio in it. One Saturday I friend turned it on as we drove along.........radio dead.
That night I dreamed that I got up, went out to the car still in my PJs tried the radio and it worked. OK I recalled the dream...for me at that time it was so unusual that I did just that!! Still in my PJs I went out to the car and tried the radio....it worked. Did I at that time say "Wow there must be a God" No, I just filed the experience away in the 'too hard basket'. Much later I decided to investigate what was with this cantankerous radio as it had stopped..started a few times. Not wanting to get too technical, the culprit turned out to be a 'dry joint' around the AGC bypass circuit. ie. a pesky intermittent fault. Did God miraculously fix my radio? No! the real miracle was preparing me to accept that the physical is but a shadow of reality. Did I at that time become a Christian?...No, that had to come later.
At some time after I became a Christian, my baby child was laying dying in hospital.. I simply had to leave her there to attend to the immediate needs of the other family members. I left the hospital fearing the worst, but praying my heart out for a miracle.
Driving along I heard from the Lord, but it was a funny (odd) answer. I was to phone the Hospital at a certain time and I would at that time get an answer. I obeyed and phoned through to the hospital ward where I could hear the screaming of my child in the background. I was told that there was no change (all the charts BP, Respiration, Temperature were all over the place). I then did believe that my baby was going to be healed!
A few hours later a message came from the Hospital that there was nothing wrong, come pick your child up.
When I got there, I was told by the nursing staff that the very moment I hung the phone up, the baby stopped screaming, all the charts returned to normal, their only concern was that they couldn't feed the baby......(wrong shaped teet
).Officiakl diagnosis........'upper respiratory infection.' Well they had to say something.......but why take 2 spinal taps if the symptoms indicated a URTI??.
But at the end of the day, the real miracle was 1. my obedience
2 the voice of God (I believe) giving me instructions which when obeyed, bore out in the healing of the baby.
A fluke? nahh how could I time my phone call to the exact time of healing?
God is real. And there is no amount of banter, no amount of scientific burblings that can alter reality.
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I'm guessing Brother Paul's point was that to try to explain a balloon/jet plane to someone who never saw or felt one, is kinda like trying to explain God to atheists/agnostics. And you are right, we can't prove it for you. That is all your job. Any more than we can make your choice for you. My typing is below power att thye moment. I just woke up from a strange dream where I lost 60 lbs (I don't think I have that much to lose) and I saw Tubby's full face, not just the eye corner in his avatar. And my hair looked terrible!!! (going to go wash it now).
Wait a minute...ONLY scientific proof? When did the box get smaller (typical atheist approach to reasoning...make the "what's allowable" box smaller and smaller)? Empirical (experience and observation) evidences are the best basis for scientific inquiry, but that is NOT the only source of legitimate verification...surely you have read about the SMs limitations (I would hope you at least heard about them)...usually covered in General Principles of Science 101...any good text on the Philosophy of Science should list a few...should I?
Calvin right??? Hrmph! I'm always right......except on those frequent occasions when I'm not
The others are right on the money with their testimonies about God in their lives.
Here is a couple of brief ones from up here in Australia. (looking down on everyone else
They say everyone dreams....well if that be true or not, there was a significant period in my life when either I didn't or I had zero recollection of any dreams when I awoke. Now during that period of my life, I was not yet born alive by the Holy Spirit.
I had a motor vehicle with a defunct radio in it. One Saturday I friend turned it on as we drove along.........radio dead.
That night I dreamed that I got up, went out to the car still in my PJs tried the radio and it worked. OK I recalled the dream...for me at that time it was so unusual that I did just that!! Still in my PJs I went out to the car and tried the radio....it worked. Did I at that time say "Wow there must be a God" No, I just filed the experience away in the 'too hard basket'. Much later I decided to investigate what was with this cantankerous radio as it had stopped..started a few times. Not wanting to get too technical, the culprit turned out to be a 'dry joint' around the AGC bypass circuit. ie. a pesky intermittent fault. Did God miraculously fix my radio? No! the real miracle was preparing me to accept that the physical is but a shadow of reality. Did I at that time become a Christian?...No, that had to come later.
At some time after I became a Christian, my baby child was laying dying in hospital.. I simply had to leave her there to attend to the immediate needs of the other family members. I left the hospital fearing the worst, but praying my heart out for a miracle.
Driving along I heard from the Lord, but it was a funny (odd) answer. I was to phone the Hospital at a certain time and I would at that time get an answer. I obeyed and phoned through to the hospital ward where I could hear the screaming of my child in the background. I was told that there was no change (all the charts BP, Respiration, Temperature were all over the place). I then did believe that my baby was going to be healed!
A few hours later a message came from the Hospital that there was nothing wrong, come pick your child up.
When I got there, I was told by the nursing staff that the very moment I hung the phone up, the baby stopped screaming, all the charts returned to normal, their only concern was that they couldn't feed the baby......(wrong shaped teet
Officiakl diagnosis........'upper respiratory infection.' Well they had to say something.......but why take 2 spinal taps if the symptoms indicated a URTI??.
But at the end of the day, the real miracle was 1. my obedience
2 the voice of God (I believe) giving me instructions which when obeyed, bore out in the healing of the baby.
A fluke? nahh how could I time my phone call to the exact time of healing?
God is real. And there is no amount of banter, no amount of scientific burblings that can alter reality.
Many types of medication can surpress dreams, if you were taking a prescription this may explain why you had a period of dreamless nights.
I'm puzzled as to how you diagnosed a dry joint AFTER the fault had cleared. Finding a dry joint causing an intermittent open circuit can be tricky for a skilled person, finding a dry joint that has been 'cured' is mind boggling to me.
OK, tell me about your other methods of scientific verification.
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