Learning Genesis
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6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
When I read this as a whole thought (and in light of a previous comment regarding the third heaven) I believe this is talking only of the physical creation and that the firmament called "heaven" is the Atmosphere...the water below is actual water and the water above is actually the gaseous nature of the still forming universe...I say this because obviously (to me I guess) this is not referring to the place where God reveals Himself to His creatures (like the Throne Room, etc.,) which is not really a place in space time
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
When I read this as a whole thought (and in light of a previous comment regarding the third heaven) I believe this is talking only of the physical creation and that the firmament called "heaven" is the Atmosphere...the water below is actual water and the water above is actually the gaseous nature of the still forming universe...I say this because obviously (to me I guess) this is not referring to the place where God reveals Himself to His creatures (like the Throne Room, etc.,) which is not really a place in space time
I agree that the heaven here is referring to atmosphere in the material sense, but it is interesting that God does reveal himself to His creatures through the living waters of the Holy Spirit. In Genesis 1 the Spirit is hovering over the waters. Our inner baptism with the Holy Spirit brings living waters. The Holy Spirit is alive and yet remains within us as if hovering over the cleansing waters, ready to take action and cleansing us continually from sin bringing new life and revealing his beauty to us.
"John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Luke 3:16).
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'" 39But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive" (John 7:38-39).
"He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5).
“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spiritb gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘Youc must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8).
We really are being continually born into new life and understanding, new love and joys from God's presence, taking us from beginning to new beginning, moment to moment. In faith God takes us where we never knew to new discoveries, blessings, and findings. When we walk moment to moment our purpose isn't defined as one set state (even if he calls us to something) we must see it as a living state moving to his will moment to moment. When the calling is alive it is renewed over and over which removes stagnation and allows the one called to have God's life lived through them and expressed to others.
Thank you for getting back to Genesis. I just love it.
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
So we must be about here I think.
So God puts us immediately at the top of the food chain by the sound of it. No argument there I suppose as we certainly are now.
He's basically saying everything is created for our consumption 'fill the Earth and subdue it'. He doesn't care much for any other living thing he created but that's his choice I suppose, even if we hunt them to extinction.
'Be fruitful and multiply' pretty much says to me procreate and the world is yours.
I understand these scriptures in essence I guess.
So we must be about here I think.
So God puts us immediately at the top of the food chain by the sound of it. No argument there I suppose as we certainly are now.
He's basically saying everything is created for our consumption 'fill the Earth and subdue it'. He doesn't care much for any other living thing he created but that's his choice I suppose, even if we hunt them to extinction.
'Be fruitful and multiply' pretty much says to me procreate and the world is yours.
I understand these scriptures in essence I guess.
@TubbyTubby God gave man wisdom to rule. Instead man sinned, and the whole earth groans because of it, and suffers for it. Your words are degrading God for His words. In ignorance you speak ill of God. A most fitting verse for you on both subjects is this:
Proverbs 12:10 (KJV)
A righteous [man] regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked [are] cruel.
Proverbs 12:10 (KJV)
A righteous [man] regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked [are] cruel.
I'm not degrading God, that's just how I interpret those words.
I'm thinking, '....over all the Earth.....' implies or includes the weather and so on.
Since the fall (yet to be studied) we have lost that position of oversight we were originally appointed to.
A question to ponder.....
Luke 8:22 One day he got into a boat with his disciples, and he said to them, "Let us go across to the other side of the lake." So they set out,
Luke 8:23 and as they sailed he fell asleep. And a windstorm came down on the lake, and they were filling with water and were in danger.
Luke 8:24 And they went and woke him, saying, "Master, Master, we are perishing!" And he awoke and rebuked the wind and the raging waves, and they ceased, and there was a calm.
Luke 8:25 He said to them, "Where is your faith?" And they were afraid, and they marveled, saying to one another, "Who then is this, that he commands even winds and water, and they obey him?"
Was this a miracle? or was it just simply Jesus exercising the original mandate from God? The mandate to have dominion over all the Earth?
Hint:::: He asked them where their faith was. Not where their divine power was.
Since the fall (yet to be studied) we have lost that position of oversight we were originally appointed to.
A question to ponder.....
Luke 8:22 One day he got into a boat with his disciples, and he said to them, "Let us go across to the other side of the lake." So they set out,
Luke 8:23 and as they sailed he fell asleep. And a windstorm came down on the lake, and they were filling with water and were in danger.
Luke 8:24 And they went and woke him, saying, "Master, Master, we are perishing!" And he awoke and rebuked the wind and the raging waves, and they ceased, and there was a calm.
Luke 8:25 He said to them, "Where is your faith?" And they were afraid, and they marveled, saying to one another, "Who then is this, that he commands even winds and water, and they obey him?"
Was this a miracle? or was it just simply Jesus exercising the original mandate from God? The mandate to have dominion over all the Earth?
Hint:::: He asked them where their faith was. Not where their divine power was.
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Dominion not consumption...no need to hunt them at that time....
Main Entry: do·min·ion
Pronunciation: \də-ˈmi-nyən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English dominioun, from Middle French dominion, modification of Latin dominium, from dominus
Date: 14th century
1 : domain 2 : supreme authority : sovereignty 3 plural : an order of angels — see celestial hierarchy
Pronunciation: \də-ˈmi-nyən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English dominioun, from Middle French dominion, modification of Latin dominium, from dominus
Date: 14th century
1 : domain 2 : supreme authority : sovereignty 3 plural : an order of angels — see celestial hierarchy
Indeed! He gave this to us as a blessing. To subdue meant for us to take control over it...by following the logic of Satan we made him the god of this world...we each became our own god, deciding good and evil for ourselves (doing what was right in our own eyes - Genesis 3:5)...so God being faithful to His promise would not just intervene assuming dominion as God so He became a man so as a man, man could regain His intended dominion. Jesus is fully God (never ceased being God) and fully man (so He could save us without violating His own sure word.
By degrading and judging Him. "He's basically saying everything is created for our consumption 'fill the Earth and subdue it'. He doesn't care much for any other living thing he created but that's his choice I suppose, even if we hunt them to extinction." @TubbyTubby
So you know God so well, you know what His intentions are. Which only shows how much contempt you have for Him and your ignorance:
"So God puts us immediately at the top of the food chain by the sound of it." @TubbyTubby
I'll bet you didn't know that no one and nothing ate anything but plants. There was no food chain except plants.
I point these things out to show you how your own thinking is bent towards hostility to God. It is this hostility that forbids you to be open an honest with the information we have presented to you. This hostility to deny the churning within for the truth. Admit it and be free. No matter how much you hate God, He still loves you and the pains of this life are a result of sin, not Him.
I point these things out to show you how your own thinking is bent towards hostility to God. It is this hostility that forbids you to be open an honest with the information we have presented to you. This hostility to deny the churning within for the truth. Admit it and be free. No matter how much you hate God, He still loves you and the pains of this life are a result of sin, not Him.
This is why I posted the definition of dominion. I couldn't articulate my thoughts last night but Ab has got it exactly. You're hostile, like it it not, believe it or not, you're shaking your fist at God.
This is why I posted the definition of dominion. I couldn't articulate my thoughts last night but Ab has got it exactly. You're hostile, like it it not, believe it or not, you're shaking your fist at God.
You guys are so right. In all my years I have only ever come across two types or classes of atheist.
1. the first type I came across hate God and moreover they hate His people.*
2. the second type adopt a more live and let live attitude. They are of the mind set that they don't believe in a god of any description, but if someone else does that is their right and they are not interested in debating. A bit like..one person plays 'lawn bowls' another plays 'croquet' But they can both sit in Maca's and eat cheese burgers side by side.
the second group we will never see on a Christian forum.
* I just wish I knew more about Psychology so I could understand the root causes....is it hurt? pride? just plain evil? what?
I truly don't know.
<' } ))))>< really like this G.F.
1. the first type I came across hate God and moreover they hate His people.*
2. the second type adopt a more live and let live attitude. They are of the mind set that they don't believe in a god of any description, but if someone else does that is their right and they are not interested in debating. A bit like..one person plays 'lawn bowls' another plays 'croquet' But they can both sit in Maca's and eat cheese burgers side by side.
the second group we will never see on a Christian forum.
* I just wish I knew more about Psychology so I could understand the root causes....is it hurt? pride? just plain evil? what?
I truly don't know.
<' } ))))>< really like this G.F.
The
The one that interests me is the first group...they hate God, any talk of God, yet how can one hate something/someone they believe is not real...I don't hate Daffy Duck...?
The one that interests me is the first group...they hate God, any talk of God, yet how can one hate something/someone they believe is not real...I don't hate Daffy Duck...?
I think it is all of those things. In Tubby's case (and you can correct me if I am wrong Tubby) I think that it is as he said, his brain isn't wired a certain way, it goes against what is logical to him and the fact of the old testament conquering really does not make sense to him. This is probably the hardest type of unbelief to overcome, straight logic.
However even from a logical standpoint I don't see how someone could actually take an in depth view of the bible, with how the old and new testaments link things in so many diverse and complicated ways, with the writings covering centuries and many various writers without contradiction in any manner and not logically come to the conclusion that this book has to be a miracle in itself.
Yeah that was a point I meant to include in my comment, but I guess I got distracted. I think there is a lot of undealt with anger and / or disillusionment in these people...Ohhh how I wish I had studied psychology in greater depth than just looking at the book cover.
I think we all have different perspectives coloured by our experiences. I used to be an atheist of the second type and I could see a difference in Christians that I wanted to have for myself. I was never angry or disillusioned with God, I just didn't think He was a reality to which I could direct my frustrations. In my first encounter with an atheist of the first type the issue was how could a god allow little children to burn to death in a house fire? That house fire was something recent to then...... that hit the news. I too was sad for the Children and surviving families, but for me, there was nobody to hang blame on.
I don't think much of those who hide their hate behind pseudo intellectualism, and that is exactly what this fellow did.
I would have agreed with you until he started in on blaming God for the plight of unborn babies infected with disease by their mothers in that other thread...That dumps him fair and square in category one.IMNSHO.
Hardly, I was questioning why anyone would take a moral viewpoint that makes it acceptable for a baby to be born with HIV. I wasn't blaming God, as I don't believe in God.
As in the Donald duck example above, I can have no hatred for something I don't believe in. I have very little hate for anything for that matter.
Hardly, I was questioning why anyone would take a moral viewpoint that makes it acceptable for a baby to be born with HIV. I wasn't blaming God, as I don't believe in God.
I know you are not a daffy ducker Tubby but let me ask you...what did your statement above have to do with the passage in Genesis we were looking at. No one says it is acceptable it is just the way it is...if the parents sin in such a way as to have HIV it is THEY who are causing their children to possibly suffer this, not God. This says nothing as to if it is acceptable or not. Our position would usually be that these people should KNOW that this would happen and be reasonable enough and compassionate enough that they would do all in thier power top prevent having children so they would not have to suffer this.It was YOUR moral viewpoint that imposed on the passage something the passage was NOT saying.
I know you are not a daffy ducker Tubby but let me ask you...what did your statement above have to do with the passage in Genesis we were looking at. No one says it is acceptable it is just the way it is...if the parents sin in such a way as to have HIV it is THEY who are causing their children to possibly suffer this, not God. This says nothing as to if it is acceptable or not. Our position would usually be that these people should KNOW that this would happen and be reasonable enough and compassionate enough that they would do all in thier power top prevent having children so they would not have to suffer this.It was YOUR moral viewpoint that imposed on the passage something the passage was NOT saying.
First of all I want to say that these verses have to be understood in terms of the spiritual, not just the physical, because, "God is Spirit" (John 4:24).
Just as a believer lives by God's Spirit, Adam and Eve were also to live by God's Spirit. If they had faith in God they would not have known evil and would thus be subjected to the goodness of God and would have ruled by the power of love, rather than the power of evil that you speak of.
"God is love" (1 John 4:8).
"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13:4-8).
This does not sound like God's plan is one of vicious brutality of his creation.
Again they were created in God's spiritual image having the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control" (Galatians 5:22).
Had they not known evil by eating of it they would be submitted to God's love and fruit ruling with love, joy, peace, kindness, and gentleness.
I think abdicates verse shows this further.
I have doves that visit everyday. Yes I feed them but for example the one I named Happy he comes to talk several times a day. He rarely eats at my house, he comes more to talk to me and hear me sing. When I think of how he sits there patiently, quietly waiting for me to sing my song and then he talks when I am done, I think that this was more of God's intention in the garden. Loving communication with the creatures and loving and caring for the surroundings.
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