Fight or Love

Are we called to fight or love


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It's Knowing who the Fight is with and walking in Love is a Requirement even in a fight.

If we were not called to fight then God used a strange analogy when using the suit of armor in His written word.

The problem that Believers tend to bring forth is not Yet able to walk in the spirit and end up operating in the flesh through pride.

Blessings
FCJ

I don’t think our views are far apart. I certainly am not a “peace at all costs” pacifist.


I am proud of my serving a term in our military, but that is a matter of being prepared, not desiring to do battle.


However, we are to be looking at all times for ways of sharing and showing His love, allowing Him to Love those around us through us.


But, when Jesus told his disciples that carrying protection (since they were to be traveling with money) was more urgent than having a cloak (Luke 22:36), he was not instructing them to go and find someone against whom to use the sword.


So I still would have trouble equating the calling to Love, which is constant and should color everything we do; and the calling to fight, which is on an as necessary basis, as being even close to equal callings in the Christian Life.
 
Congratulations!!! I just noticed that you are now a "Senior" moderator!!! That is a well deserved honor and I for one am very proud of you and your efforts to get out the Word of God.

Thank you Major for your very kind words and for your confidence in me. I surely do appreciate you! All Glory goes to God for His work in me and His speaking through me.
Blessings and love to you and your family!
 
So I still would have trouble equating the calling to Love, which is constant and should color everything we do; and the calling to fight, which is on an as necessary basis, as being even close to equal callings in the Christian Life.

What would your position be on fighting the good fight of faith in 1 Timothy 6:12? And how to fight our enemy the devil 2 Co 10:3-5 and what would be the reason for our needing God's armor as in Ephesians 6:10-18

Blessings to you and your family
 
What would your position be on fighting the good fight of faith in 1 Timothy 6:12? And how to fight our enemy the devil 2 Co 10:3-5 and what would be the reason for our needing God's armor as in Ephesians 6:10-18

Blessings to you and your family

On behalf of my family, thanks. I always appreciate reading your posts as well as those of Fish Catcher Jim!

Nothing in any of my posts should be taken as avoiding a battle when confronted with the need.

The good fight (or, at least one good fight we have in common) is against our own selfish nature.

As for the armor, note that most of it is defensive.

As I said before, I am not a spiritual pacifist. BUT I understand that I am, not the commander in this battle, and that although I am His to use as he sees fit, including in struggle (physical, verbal, or spiritual), it is not for me to look for these confrontations.

I do find that being ready He does employ me in various ways to present His case or stand for His principles.

A dedicated and loyal soldier does not go hunting the enemy on his own.

Again the distinction here is to the degree we are called to fight compared to called to love. Even when we are called to fight, our call to love should be undiminished. I can see no way to say that in showing His love, our call to fight should be undiminished, at least in terms that situation.
 
It's Knowing who the Fight is with and walking in Love is a Requirement even in a fight.

If we were not called to fight then God used a strange analogy when using the suit of armor in His written word.

The problem that Believers tend to bring forth is not Yet able to walk in the spirit and end up operating in the flesh through pride.

Blessings
FCJ

I agree, as far as this goes. And, in many of my posts, I am reluctant to mention Satan by name but refer to him as the enemy.

But, knowing who the enemy is is only the beginning. Imagine a loyal and dedicated soldier in a battle. Just knowing who to fight without doing as he is commanded by leadership, and he is a liability rather than an asset.

I sometimes (too often) see a young in the spirit brother try to be a lion of God when he hasn't gotten the basic training (to mix metaphores) to trust the Spirit, or done the studying scripture to have it live within him and be ready.

There are 3 sources of temptation, and therefore 3 general areas of spiritual battle.

Satan (and his spirits)
The flesh
The world

The enemy (being cowardly) often fights through the other two and is best fought by fighting them. There are exceptions, but only when he is balked from using the other two.

The flesh represents our fight within ourselves. It is won by giving control to our Lord. It is done individualy by the power of the spirit within the believer.

The world is corporatly everyone not controlled by our Lord, and the institutions devised by man. These is best fought by giving encouragement to the non-Christian to draw closers to the Lord. It is only by changing the hearts of individuals that the world is successfuly fought. Change the sinful world by changing hearts, one at a time. We can be a tool here, but it is the Spirit's battle.

There are times that we do need to take a stand, and we may need to be forceful in doing so, but just going about looking for something to be righteously indignant about is not always the best course.

Again, the 'call to fight' is much less central than the call to love.

We are also 'called' to take proper care of ourselves so we remain useful servants, but I wouldn't but eating healthy on the same level as the primary call to love.
 
I sometimes (too often) see a young in the spirit brother try to be a lion of God when he hasn't gotten the basic training (to mix metaphores) to trust the Spirit, or done the studying scripture to have it live within him and be ready.

Again that comes down to knowing who the fight is with.
Knowing how to fight determines if you truly know who the fight is with.

Siloam
I am not ignoring your replies.
Rather setting things up for what comes next Without posting what I am preparing to post next.
I hope this makes sense to you.
Blessings
FCJ
 
Again that comes down to knowing who the fight is with.
Knowing how to fight determines if you truly know who the fight is with.

Siloam
I am not ignoring your replies.
Rather setting things up for what comes next Without posting what I am preparing to post next.
I hope this makes sense to you.
Blessings
FCJ

Makes good sense to me... I am feeling blessed by the discussion. Please do not think I am 'with' you in fellowship even when I highlight where I may come at things from a different perspective.
 
I would like to start this post by stating again that I do not think we are far off, I am just very reluctant to raise the calling to fight to the level of the calling to love.


Here I will contend ( aren’t I the contentious one!! ) that the call to love is universal to being a servant of the King; but that being a fighter, beyond the internal struggle with each of our old selfish wills, is not a calling, or at least not as basic a calling as the call to love, which our Lord identified as both the greatest commandment, as to loving God, and the second, as to loving our neighbor. I don’t recall him stating that there is a third greatest commandment.

Consider the following

A believer quietly going about his business showing studying God’s word, helping teach Sunday school, always ready to lend a hand to help those around her. She makes no secret of who she serves and openly prays and asks God’s help before and during each task and none around her can fail to understand her motivation.

Consider a second church attender who rightly sees the evil and injustice around him and publicly and loudly rails against that evil stating that the perceived evil is against God’s law and should therefore be opposed at all costs.

I would say that the first person is displaying a good answer to the call to love. I would say that the second person is _possibly_ displaying an answer to a call to fight. The resolution of _possibly_ depends upon who is empowering his actions.

One could point out that even the first person may just be doing good works out of her own power, and not empowered by the Spirit, even if so, she is developing an awareness of the needs around her that may be used by the Spirit when she draws closer.

On the other hand, it the one that is fighting society’s evil is doing this by his own power, he is aggrandizing his self view and is developing a contentious personality.


Consider the scripture:

I Cor 12:14-26 [ NASB ]
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.
16 And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be?
18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.
19 If they were all one member, where would the body be?
20 But now there are many members, but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary;
23 and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable,
24 whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked,
25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.
26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.


It is my view that the fight is the Lord’s. We are all to be his tools (Love), but not all his weapon (fight).

Returning to the analogy soldier who knows who the enemy is and goes and fights:

What would happen if the soldier assigned to keep the supplies at the camp hospital decided to grab a rifle and go confront the enemy. Not only would he be less than effective because the attack was not coordinated by command, but his task at the hospital would have to be done by someone else.

If you are saying that we are called to fight and that that call is answered by our doing the task the Lord has set before us by relying on His empowerment, then I am with you. But I do not think that was your point.

If you are saying that we should all join in the public opposition to an injustice I think you are treading on shaky ground.

The fight is His not ours. Our place is where He puts us.

It is also my view that this is a significant difference (or I would not belabor the point).
 
I would like to start this post by stating again that I do not think we are far off, I am just very reluctant to raise the calling to fight to the level of the calling to love.

(y) That's good and yet that's bad!
Again it boils down to understanding what the fight is.....No Sir we are not far off at all. You will see.

Consider a second church attender who rightly sees the evil and injustice around him and publicly and loudly rails against that evil stating that the perceived evil is against God’s law and should therefore be opposed at all costs.
This person Does Not understand
What the Fight is nor How to Fight.

If you are saying that we are called to fight and that that call is answered by our doing the task the Lord has set before us by relying on His empowerment, then I am with you. But I do not think that was your point.

Because the natural is getting mixed in with the spiritual. Seeing fight in the natural realm and not the spiritual realm.

The fight is His not ours. Our place is where He puts us.

The battle is the Lord's Yes.......
The battle is already won...yes
The victory is ours .....yes

Only when you know where, when, how to fight the good fight of faith Can you take hold of this.

You will learn to fight or you will stay defeated. There is no other way.

I will leave you with this.....
1Corinthians9:26
Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air.

So I run with purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing

Most believers are just hitting air when it comes to fighting the good fight of faith. Again you will see.
Blessings Brother
FCJ
 
(y) That's good and yet that's bad!
Again it boils down to understanding what the fight is.....No Sir we are not far off at all. You will see.


This person Does Not understand
What the Fight is nor How to Fight.



Because the natural is getting mixed in with the spiritual. Seeing fight in the natural realm and not the spiritual realm.



The battle is the Lord's Yes.......
The battle is already won...yes
The victory is ours .....yes

Only when you know where, when, how to fight the good fight of faith Can you take hold of this.

You will learn to fight or you will stay defeated. There is no other way.

I will leave you with this.....

1Corinthians9:26
Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air.

So I run with purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing

Most believers are just hitting air when it comes to fighting the good fight of faith. Again you will see.
Blessings Brother
FCJ

Let me try to understand you.

Only when you know where, when, how to fight the good fight of faith Can you take hold of this.

Ok, can you explain/describe where when and how to fight the good faith fight?

My view is that the real battle is always in the heart. In the heart of the unbeliever to bring him closer to the Lord, in the heart of the believer to keep him trusting and empowered by the Lord.

As to when, it is constant until we are raised incorruptible. From man's perspective, there is always the current and next battle until death. From God's perspective (and God who created time therefore stands outside it) the outcome is as sure as your yesterday.

As to how, it is by building and exercising the things of faith (The whole armor of God) and noticing when they perform their function through you, building your reliance upon them and weakening your reliance on yourself.

The other thing you have alluded to is knowing your enemy.

My view is our fleshly desires (in each of us individually), the world (all of us corporately), and the Devil.

Do you disagree? Is there something else here? Can you be explicit?

The thing here is the second (the world). It's easy to look around and find evils. I would never counsel a believer who feels moved to fight one or more of them to back off or _just_ pray about it. On the other hand, if one is working on the task set before him, I would not tell him to put it away and start a frontal attack on the evil.

I do not think that looking for evil or keeping the evil in the world front-most in our minds promotes a healthy mindset for Christians.

But regardless, is knowing the enemy, knowing who to fight and knowing when to fight, and knowing how to fight (and putting that knowledge into practice) in your view as central to being His servant as the call to Love?
 
Siloam


My view is that the real battle is always in the heart. In the heart of the unbeliever to bring him closer to the Lord, in the heart of the believer to keep him trusting and empowered by the Lord.

The heart or Spirit Must be filled with His word to the point it is His word that flows out of our mouth First and flows into our Thinking First. Other wise one will not ever be able to win any paticular battle.
The Battle is not within your heart but your mind and against the enemy and his actions.

I should have my thread up and running later this week. I am going to start putting it together behind the scenes here and when finished move it to the open forum.

All this and more will be answered there.
Blessings
FCJ
 
Siloam




The heart or Spirit Must be filled with His word to the point it is His word that flows out of our mouth
First and flows into our Thinking First. Other wise one will not ever be able to win any paticular battle.
The Battle is not within your heart but your mind and against the enemy and his actions.

I should have my thread up and running later this week. I am going to start putting it together behind the scenes here and when finished move it to the open forum.

All this and more will be answered there.
Blessings
FCJ

'Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,
bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another,
if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts,
to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;
teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.'

(Col 3:12-17)

Praise God!
 
'Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved,
bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another,
if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts,
to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;
teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.'

(Col 3:12-17)

Praise God!
This is all good however if I look at what you Quoted against what you posted then it seems you are mixing walking in love and fighting the good fight of faith together and all dealing with people.

Now I know you know better then to to that. I mean you already posted scriptures showing the battle is Not with flesh and blood.

So why would you even pop in and place a bunch of Scripture like this Against some bits of what I said as to build a case against?

Please don't take this as me jumping back. Oh no because I have the biggest smile and no ought in my heart at all. It just struck me as funny that you of all people would post love scriptures towards people up against fighting against spiritual things..... :)
I mean We Both know it just Confuses the issue at hand for many.
Blessings
FCJ
 
This is all good however if I look at what you Quoted against what you posted then it seems you are mixing walking in love and fighting the good fight of faith together and all dealing with people.

Now I know you know better then to to that. I mean you already posted scriptures showing the battle is Not with flesh and blood.

So why would you even pop in and place a bunch of Scripture like this Against some bits of what I said as to build a case against?

Please don't take this as me jumping back. Oh no because I have the biggest smile and no ought in my heart at all. It just struck me as funny that you of all people would post love scriptures towards people up against fighting against spiritual things..... :)
I mean We Both know it just Confuses the issue at hand for many.
Blessings
FCJ

The whole point was concerning the words, 'let the word of God dwell in you richly',
which was the point you made in the entry I replied to, Fish Catcher Jim.

I cannot begin to understand why you should find the Scripture I entered unhelpful.. I do not seek to prove or disprove anything.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
The whole point was concerning the words, 'let the word of God dwell in you richly',
which was the point you made in the entry I replied to, Fish Catcher Jim.

I cannot begin to understand why you should find the Scripture I entered unhelpful.. I do not seek to prove or disprove anything.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Lol like I said ....
What you quoted of mine by adding what you did makes it appear that you were using these scriptures against a couple of things I posted about fight.

Now I also said that I know you better
I said I know that you know the difference between the two.

My point was ..... by just posting the scriptures with what you quoted confuses the issue for some who do not Yet understand the difference between the two.

I however did not apply your scriptures were not true or unhelpful.

I apologize if I was not clear in what I was saying.
Blessings
FCJ
 
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