What do you think was God`s Purpose in making - the Nations, Israel and the Body of Christ?

[Marilyn C]

I understand your concern. However, for ME it is enough to make ME understand. When I take all the Scriptures on this topic, I am totally statisfied that the Church is the Bride of Christ.

To that I add.........
“Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.” – Revelation 19:7.

1 Corth. 11:2.....
"For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ."

Isaiah 62:5​

“As a young man marries a young woman, so will your builder marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.”​

​

“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.” – Matthew 25:1​

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.” – Matthew 22:14
“I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.” – Revelation 21:2
“Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.” – Hebrews 10:23

​

Hi Major,

Sorry I can`t accept that scripture (2 Cor. 11: 2) either as part of the doctrine of the bride. We know that all scripture is for us to read, however, all scripture is NOT all about us.

We read in 2 Cor. 11: 2 that the Apostle Paul is speaking to his disciples and telling them that he desires to PRESENT them to the Lord pure. But Paul does not PRESENT us to the Lord. It is the Lord Himself who will present us to Himself.

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to PRESENT you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy. `(Jude 24)

Thus 2 Cor. 11: 2 is Paul`s desire for his disciples and Eph. 5: 25 – 33 is an exhortation (amid other exhortations) for husbands to love their wives. There is no doctrine of the bride.

Jesus, the Head of the Body has NOT told us that we are symbolically the bride. Rather Jesus gives us clear doctrine of the Body of Christ as the New Man being brought to maturity of manhood and that we are to put on the new man. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13 & 24)

 

[Marilyn C]

Now we look at the Old Testament scriptures referring to the Bride and the doctrine is clearly presented. The Bride symbol is for Israel.

` For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused. `(Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving – kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness and you shall know the Lord. `(Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

Many other scriptures of the Old Testament reveal that Israel is the bride, the wife of the Lord. Even though Israel rebelled and God `divorced` them, He will take back and cleanse them. (Hosea reveals this).

When Jesus came to Israel on earth He reminded them about this reunion, this marriage. (Matt. 22: 1 – 14 25: 1 – 13)

 

[Marilyn C]

Finally in revelation we read of the inheritances of the Body of Christ, Israel and the nations.

The Body of Christ is with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21 4: 1 – 4)

Then when the Lord comes to judge the rebellious and deliver Israel we see that the `wife,` Israel has made herself ready by turning to Him and repenting. (Zech. 12: 10 Rev. 19: 7 & 8)

Then in the New heavens and New earth we read of the city, the New Jerusalem AS a bride coming down out of heaven from God. (Rev. 21: 2) This city was promised to the Old Testament saints. (Heb. 11: 16)

Then the nations of the saved are on the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

Every realm has rulership under the Lordship of Christ.

 

[Major]

Hi Major,

Sorry I can`t accept that scripture (2 Cor. 11: 2) either as part of the doctrine of the bride. We know that all scripture is for us to read, however, all scripture is NOT all about us.

We read in 2 Cor. 11: 2 that the Apostle Paul is speaking to his disciples and telling them that he desires to PRESENT them to the Lord pure. But Paul does not PRESENT us to the Lord. It is the Lord Himself who will present us to Himself.

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to PRESENT you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy. `(Jude 24)

Thus 2 Cor. 11: 2 is Paul`s desire for his disciples and Eph. 5: 25 – 33 is an exhortation (amid other exhortations) for husbands to love their wives. There is no doctrine of the bride.

Jesus, the Head of the Body has NOT told us that we are symbolically the bride. Rather Jesus gives us clear doctrine of the Body of Christ as the New Man being brought to maturity of manhood and that we are to put on the new man. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13 & 24)

Maybe I am wrong, but I think that you are trying to say that the Bride of Christ is NOT the church but instead is New Jerusalem. Feel free to correct my thinking.

I agree that 2 Corinthians does not validate the church as the bride of Christ and I do not think I said that. Instead, it uses the metaphor
of a betrothed bride to illustrate the intimate relationship between Christ and HIs followers.

I See Ephesians 5:25-27 as the imagery as the presentation to Christ the radiant Church in the same way a husband is presented a wife.

Also, I see 2 Corth. 11:2-3 where Paul relates the Church to Christ’s bride. So, when we come to Revelation 19-21, where reference is made to the “wedding of the Lamb”, the bride of the Lamb in Rev. 19:7 and the wife of the Lamb in Rev. 21:9, it is clear that this bride and the New Jerusalem are one in the same.

When you read Galatians 4:26, what do YOU see that relates the New Jerusalem to???? It is to a woman!

So which is the metaphor? The bride or the city? Or are they both metaphors for a new covenant or people? So is the bride of Christ the Church, a people, or the New Jerusalem, a place where people will live? The answer is both. It’s not either/or, it’s both/and. A people and the place where that people dwell are inseparably linked. That’s even true of God and Heaven. The prodigal son said “I have sinned against Heaven.” Of course, that was the same as saying “I have sinned against God.”

IMHO, It is a false assumption that the bride of Christ must be either the church (God’s people) or the New Jerusalem. In fact, according to Scripture, it is both. One will live in a place so that when seen, they will be indistinguishable.

Now, there are some people who are adamant in the belief that the bride is a city. Well.......I believe that, too, because the Bible plainly says it is.

However.....Does this mean you believe Jesus will marry a city which is made up of streets, buildings and gates?
How does one marry real estate?
Personally, I think that it make sense to interpret scripture in light of what other scriptural passages say?

Can anyone deny that Scripture likens the relationship of Christ and the Church to a husband and his wife should be the question.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I understand your concern. However, for ME it is enough to make ME understand. When I take all the Scriptures on this topic, I am totally statisfied that the Church is the Bride of Christ.

To that I add.........
“Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.” – Revelation 19:7.

1 Corth. 11:2.....
"For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ."

Isaiah 62:5​

“As a young man marries a young woman, so will your builder marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.”​

​

“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.” – Matthew 25:1​

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.” – Matthew 22:14
“I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.” – Revelation 21:2
“Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.” – Hebrews 10:23

​

The Bride and body of Christ would be the Church, as all the members who have been saved and redeemed by the Lord Jesus

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hi Major,

We have a couple of days resting and with Wi-Fi I can reply now. I will comment on the first topic - the bride of Christ. Thank you for your scriptures that you see apply to this topic. However, I have some concerns about using Eph. 5: 25 - 27 as part of the doctrine of the bride of Christ.

1. The pronoun `her` in English refers back to a noun previously written. We do not see any scriptures in Eph. 1 - 4 that refer to the Body of Christ as a female. On the contrary we read of the Head of the Body, (male) writing through the Apostle Paul that His Body is the New Man, that He will bring to maturity of manhood in Himself, and that we are to put on the new man. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13 4: 24)

Thus, Eph. 4: 25 - 27 cannot I believe, be used as part of the doctrine of the bride of Christ.

The pronoun is `it `referring to the body that `we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.`(Eph. 5: 30)

2. Also, a doctrine cannot be based upon a symbol or typology.

The Body and bride of Jesus would be the members of His Church, of all he has redeemed and saved

 

[Major]

The Body and bride of Jesus would be the members of His Church, of all he has redeemed and saved

One will live in a place so that when seen, they will be indistinguishable which IMHO makes it a non-issue!

A personal choice, YES. Essential doctrine....NO!

 

[Marilyn C]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think that you are trying to say that the Bride of Christ is NOT the church but instead is New Jerusalem. Feel free to correct my thinking.

I agree that 2 Corinthians does not validate the church as the bride of Christ and I do not think I said that. Instead, it uses the metaphor
of a betrothed bride to illustrate the intimate relationship between Christ and HIs followers.

I See Ephesians 5:25-27 as the imagery as the presentation to Christ the radiant Church in the same way a husband is presented a wife.

Also, I see 2 Corth. 11:2-3 where Paul relates the Church to Christ’s bride. So, when we come to Revelation 19-21, where reference is made to the “wedding of the Lamb”, the bride of the Lamb in Rev. 19:7 and the wife of the Lamb in Rev. 21:9, it is clear that this bride and the New Jerusalem are one in the same.

When you read Galatians 4:26, what do YOU see that relates the New Jerusalem to???? It is to a woman!

So which is the metaphor? The bride or the city? Or are they both metaphors for a new covenant or people? So is the bride of Christ the Church, a people, or the New Jerusalem, a place where people will live? The answer is both. It’s not either/or, it’s both/and. A people and the place where that people dwell are inseparably linked. That’s even true of God and Heaven. The prodigal son said “I have sinned against Heaven.” Of course, that was the same as saying “I have sinned against God.”

IMHO, It is a false assumption that the bride of Christ must be either the church (God’s people) or the New Jerusalem. In fact, according to Scripture, it is both. One will live in a place so that when seen, they will be indistinguishable.

Now, there are some people who are adamant in the belief that the bride is a city. Well.......I believe that, too, because the Bible plainly says it is.

However.....Does this mean you believe Jesus will marry a city which is made up of streets, buildings and gates?
How does one marry real estate?
Personally, I think that it make sense to interpret scripture in light of what other scriptural passages say?

Can anyone deny that Scripture likens the relationship of Christ and the Church to a husband and his wife should be the question.

Hi Major,

Actually, the symbol `bride`/wife` is used for Israel on earth in time. Then in the New Heavens and New Earth, (Eternity) the symbol is again used but this time for the New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from God to the Principalities and Powers realm, (Universe) above the earth.

Yes, the New Jerusalem is described AS a bride because of God`s glory. (Rev. 21: 2 & 11) Jesus will Not marry the city or the people because the city was only described AS a bride. it is NOT a bride or person.

So, we know that -

1. There is no male or female in the Body of Christ.
2. There are no marriages in heaven.
3. Israel was called the bride/wife of the Lord. He is their `husband`meaning master.
4. The Body of Christ is called the New Man.
5. The Body of Christ is being brought to the maturity of manhood.
6. The believers are to put on the new man.

Do we disregard those truths from the Lord?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hi Major,

Actually, the symbol `bride`/wife` is used for Israel on earth in time. Then in the New Heavens and New Earth, (Eternity) the symbol is again used but this time for the New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from God to the Principalities and Powers realm, (Universe) above the earth.

Yes, the New Jerusalem is described AS a bride because of God`s glory. (Rev. 21: 2 & 11) Jesus will Not marry the city or the people because the city was only described AS a bride. it is NOT a bride or person.

So, we know that -

1. There is no male or female in the Body of Christ.
2. There are no marriages in heaven.
3. Israel was called the bride/wife of the Lord. He is their `husband`meaning master.
4. The Body of Christ is called the New Man.
5. The Body of Christ is being brought to the maturity of manhood.
6. The believers are to put on the new man.

Do we disregard those truths from the Lord?

The Church is the bride and body of the Lord Jesus

 

[Major]

Hi Major,

Actually, the symbol `bride`/wife` is used for Israel on earth in time. Then in the New Heavens and New Earth, (Eternity) the symbol is again used but this time for the New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from God to the Principalities and Powers realm, (Universe) above the earth.

Yes, the New Jerusalem is described AS a bride because of God`s glory. (Rev. 21: 2 & 11) Jesus will Not marry the city or the people because the city was only described AS a bride. it is NOT a bride or person.

So, we know that -

1. There is no male or female in the Body of Christ.
2. There are no marriages in heaven.
3. Israel was called the bride/wife of the Lord. He is their `husband`meaning master.
4. The Body of Christ is called the New Man.
5. The Body of Christ is being brought to the maturity of manhood.
6. The believers are to put on the new man.

Do we disregard those truths from the Lord?

Actually, the symbols bride and wife are used in a specific theological context, primarily referring to Israel in the Old Testament and the Church in the New Testament.

As for your opinion that "`bride`/wife` is used for Israel on earth in time", No I do not see that. Only the Church is called the Bride of Christ. The age of the Church began at Pentecost after the Lord’s resurrection, and will end with the Rapture. No other group will be so honored, not the Tribulation believers, not even Israel.
Rev. 21:2......
"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband".

1. That idea of gender distinctions do not apply in the context of salvation. When we are saved, we are all equal in Christ. No matter our race, status, or sex, we all stand on the same footing in Christ.

2. That is a Biblical fact and is seen in Matthew 22:30. However, do you disreguard the Scripture that says......in Rev. 19:7-9
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the MARRIAGE of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the MARRIAGE supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

3. That is only true so far as faithfulness goes. In the Old Testament, Israel was portrayed at times as God's bride. This imagery is used to describe the covenant relationship between God and Israel, where God is seen as a husband and Israel as an unfaithful wife. Isreal played the harlot in her entire history up to and including today.

Now......I for one have to wonder if Israel is the Bride of Christ as you say it is, then why would a devout Jew, Paul - describe the relationship of the Church with Jesus in such intimate terms as a marriage when we are supposed to somehow understand that it is Israel, and not the Church, that is to be considered His bride?! Do you see how that makes NO common sense or Bible sense?

Personally, I think that you are working way to hard to try and prove something that is not provable Biblically and actually is very non-essential. Every Jew that comes to Christ is then IN CHRIST and has put on the New Man and is IN the Church!

A study of Revelation 5–7; 12–15; 17; 19; 21–22 clearly indicates that the Lamb is Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords who shed His blood to cleanse sinners.

Romans 7:4; 2 Corinthians 11:2; and Ephesians 5:22–33 clearly indicate that the wife of the Lamb is the Church.
In light of these identifications, and Bible truths, it is evident that Revelation 19:7–9 is referring to the marriage of Jesus Christ to the Church and the subsequent marriage supper.

4. Agreed.

5. Agreed.

6. Agreed.

 

[Marilyn C]

Actually, the symbols bride and wife are used in a specific theological context, primarily referring to Israel in the Old Testament and the Church in the New Testament.

As for your opinion that "`bride`/wife` is used for Israel on earth in time", No I do not see that. Only the Church is called the Bride of Christ. The age of the Church began at Pentecost after the Lord’s resurrection, and will end with the Rapture. No other group will be so honored, not the Tribulation believers, not even Israel.
Rev. 21:2......
"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband".

1. That idea of gender distinctions do not apply in the context of salvation. When we are saved, we are all equal in Christ. No matter our race, status, or sex, we all stand on the same footing in Christ.

2. That is a Biblical fact and is seen in Matthew 22:30. However, do you disreguard the Scripture that says......in Rev. 19:7-9
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the MARRIAGE of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the MARRIAGE supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

3. That is only true so far as faithfulness goes. In the Old Testament, Israel was portrayed at times as God's bride. This imagery is used to describe the covenant relationship between God and Israel, where God is seen as a husband and Israel as an unfaithful wife. Isreal played the harlot in her entire history up to and including today.

Now......I for one have to wonder if Israel is the Bride of Christ as you say it is, then why would a devout Jew, Paul - describe the relationship of the Church with Jesus in such intimate terms as a marriage when we are supposed to somehow understand that it is Israel, and not the Church, that is to be considered His bride?! Do you see how that makes NO common sense or Bible sense?

Personally, I think that you are working way to hard to try and prove something that is not provable Biblically and actually is very non-essential. Every Jew that comes to Christ is then IN CHRIST and has put on the New Man and is IN the Church!

A study of Revelation 5–7; 12–15; 17; 19; 21–22 clearly indicates that the Lamb is Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords who shed His blood to cleanse sinners.

Romans 7:4; 2 Corinthians 11:2; and Ephesians 5:22–33 clearly indicate that the wife of the Lamb is the Church.
In light of these identifications, and Bible truths, it is evident that Revelation 19:7–9 is referring to the marriage of Jesus Christ to the Church and the subsequent marriage supper.

4. Agreed.

5. Agreed.

6. Agreed.

Hi Major,

Firstly, I need to say that many people might think – does it matter – the Body, the New Man &/or Bride. I believe it is very important, because it leads to the right or wrong inheritance. Also, the Lord tells us that the Body of Christ is bring to

` the unity of faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, (His character and His purposes) unto the maturity of manhood (perfect man) unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.`(Eph. 4: 13)

That is why it is so important to have the discussion here. Now…

I do not accept that it is my opinion that the bride/wife is used for Israel on earth in time, for God`s word clearly reveals that it is.

Isa. 54: 5 & 6 refers to God as Israel`s husband (master) and Israel as His grieved wife. In Hosea, the prophet was called to take a wife of prostitution and to marry her. This is a type of God connecting (marrying) His people Israel who rebelled (prostituted) against Him. God says He will betroth them to Him forever. (Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

This we see fulfilled in matt. 22: 1 – 14 and 25: 1 – 13 and especially in Rev. 19: 2 – 9. Note that it is the Lamb`s marriage to His wife (formerly rebellious). The Title `Lamb` is used only in relation to Israel and their sacrifice. The Body of Christ does not or ever have had that sacrifice. It is a title `Lamb` capital `L.

We receive forgiveness because of Christ`s sacrifice, and know Christ as a lamb to the slaughter, but the title of `Lamb` of God is for Israel. It reveals the fulfillment of Israel`s God given feast of Passover.

Matt. 22: 11 & 12 reveals that the `marriage` connect to Israel again of God as their Lord, is on the earth in time. We read of a person who enters into the celebration without a `wedding garment.` This could not happen in heaven.





I agree that the Body of Christ began at Pentecost and be caught away at the rapture. And that there is no other group so honoured. So glad we agree there.

 

[Marilyn C]

So let`s look at the answers to my questions.

1. I agree also that there are no gender distinctions in the Body of Christ. Also, referring to the corporate Body of Christ which is not male or female. Physical differences are for procreation on earth. The New Man is completely different. The New Man has both male and female characteristics – the divine nature.



2. No marriages in heaven. Rev. 19: 7 – 9 is on the earth as shown by Matt. 22: 11 & 12.

Agreed that Israel is portrayed as God`s wife and God the husband. Yes, she played the harlot but God will connect (marry) with her as revealed in Matt. 22, 25 and Rev. 19.

Paul does NOT describe the church as a bride. That is opinion, conjecture let alone false teaching that has perpetuated since the RCC called the church `her.` There is NO doctrine of the church as the bride of Christ.

3.
2 Cor. 11: 2 Not Valid.
We both agreed that this scripture does not validate (your words) the church as a bride. `Intimate relationship,` the head of His Body is the closest intimate relationship.

Rom. 7: 4 Not Valid.
The word should not be `married` but `might become.` See verses 4 & 13 for the same Gk word. Thus this scripture is NOT valid also.



Eph. 5: 21 – 33 Not Valid.

This is an exhortation. Paul is exhorting husbands to love their wives as their body as Christ does His body.

`For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourished and cherished it, even as the Lord does His church. For we are members of His body and of His flesh and of His bones.` (Eph. 5: 29 & 30)

Clearly the Head and His Body are ONE.

Note: a doctrine is NOT based n –

• A symbol or type.
• An exhortation.
• A string of such scriptures.

A doctrine is clearly presented teachings as Paul does in Eph. Ch. 1 – 4. Paul taught the whole counsel of God to the Ephesians, (Acts 20: 27) and we can rea of that important doctrine in great detail of Christ the Head of `His Body the FULNESS of HIM that fills all in all. `(Eph. 1: 23)



Now I noted that you had no detailed comments for questions 4,5 & 6 except the word `agreed.` That we agree there is very good however it seems that those topic are not so important to comment on.

Then let me make a few comments.

The New Man. The combinations of male and female characteristics, bringing together all the qualities of male and female, (but not the physical).

The New Man is wholly fitted to the Head, Christ Jesus in His glorified Body. We will be an integrated, complete body of glorified believers with Christ`s own nature. (2 Peter 1: 4)



The New Man brought to maturity of manhood in Christ – with knowledge of His character and His purposes.

Over the centuries believers have often been ostracized or even martyred for the truths of Christ that they stood for. Today the Body of Christ is blessed with receiving the `whole Counsel of God. `(Acts 20: 27)

Salvation, believer`s baptism, holy living, infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the 5 fold ministries of Christ and finally the Eternal Purposes for the Body of Christ, for Israel and the Nations.





Believer`s putting on the New Man.

The New Man that we put on is Christ formed in the believer. (Gal. 2: 20)

Rom. 8: 29 `For who He did foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the first-born among many brethren.`

Heb. 2: 10 `For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things in bringing man SONS into glory,…`

 

[YeshuaFan]

I am sorry to say this, but I do not agree.

Our "Inheritance" as Christians we read in Ephesians 1:11..........
"In [Christ] we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will".

Our inheritance is, then in a word, heaven. It is the sum total of all God has promised us in salvation. Words related to inheritance in Scripture are portion and heritage.

That being said, TO ME, "the Body, the New Man &/or Bride" is of NO importance. Obviously it is to you, but that is a personal problem for you. Now I am not saying that with any disrespect to what YOU believe, just that it has not importance to me personally.

As for ME, when I inherit Heaven, I will receive all that God promised me. Anything else is just more chocolate on the cake.

I do not see or read or understand from the Scriptures that Israel is the Bride of Christ.

You used Matthew 22 to confirm what you believe about Israel being the Bride of Christ. There are a coupe of things that you need to consider.

1. The book of Matthew is Jewish centric.
2. The section you posted is a "parable". There are two parables in chapter 22. Both are allegories.
(This is obviously more than a story about a king and a banquet. It is the story of salvation history in which God sent prophets and Christian evangelists with Good News, which some rejected and others accepted.)

We should take note here to not interpret this parable as meaning that God has excluded Israel. By the same token, we should be carful NOT to read into it something that is not there-----Israel is the Bride of Christ. That is what you want it to say, but those words and suggestion just is not there.

Now, Paul makes that point when he asks, "Did God reject his people?"—and answers, "May it never be!" in Romans 11:1.
He says of Jewish people, "But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" in Romans 11:28-29.

However, neither there does Paul say Israel is the Bride of Christ.

Just for those on the internet that read what we post, I feel like I need To summarize the point of the Parable of the Wedding Feast parable.

My der friends, God sent His Son into the world, and the very people who should have celebrated His coming, the JEWS, rejected Him, and killed Him bringing judgment upon themselves. As a result, the kingdom of heaven was opened up to anyone who will set aside his own righteousness and by faith accept the righteousness God provides in Christ whether they be white, black, red, yellow, Jew, Sumatran.
Those who accept the Lord Jesus as the Christ then become part of His church. Those who spurn the gift of salvation and cling instead to their own “good” works will spend eternity in hell.

Thge NT does indeed state that the body of Christ, the Church, would be His own bride, as He is "married" to the Church

 

[Major]

Thge NT does indeed state that the body of Christ, the Church, would be His own bride, as He is "married" to the Church

Indeed it does my brother.

The following footnote appears in the Scofield Reference Bible, explaining these verses in Revelation 21:9.....
“The Lamb’s wife” here is the “bride” (Rev. 21:9), the church, identified with the “heavenly Jerusalem” (Hebrews 12:22, 23) and to be distinguished from Israel, the adulterous and repudiated “wife” of Jehovah yet to be restored (Isaiah 54:1 to 10; Hosea 2:1 to 17), who is identified with the earth (Hosea 2:23). A forgiven and restored wife could not be called either a virgin (II Corinthians. 11:2, 3), or a bride."

Now, I do not know if our sister, Marylin will agree with some who believe that Israel is the "Bride of Christ" but there are Some who teach and believe that Israel will be the restored wife of Jehovah. This is supported by the fact that Eve was part of Adam’s body and also his wife. They also use the Song of Solomon to support their teaching. Also by certain marriages they seek to prove by type, such as Isaac and Rebecca, Joseph and Asenath, Moses and his wife.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Indeed it does my brother.

The following footnote appears in the Scofield Reference Bible, explaining these verses in Revelation 21:9.....
“The Lamb’s wife” here is the “bride” (Rev. 21:9), the church, identified with the “heavenly Jerusalem” (Hebrews 12:22, 23) and to be distinguished from Israel, the adulterous and repudiated “wife” of Jehovah yet to be restored (Isaiah 54:1 to 10; Hosea 2:1 to 17), who is identified with the earth (Hosea 2:23). A forgiven and restored wife could not be called either a virgin (II Corinthians. 11:2, 3), or a bride."

Now, I do not know if our sister, Marylin will agree with some who believe that Israel is the "Bride of Christ" but there are Some who teach and believe that Israel will be the restored wife of Jehovah. This is supported by the fact that Eve was part of Adam’s body and also his wife. They also use the Song of Solomon to support their teaching. Also by certain marriages they seek to prove by type, such as Isaac and Rebecca, Joseph and Asenath, Moses and his wife.

In my thinking, since the Church proper is now spiritual Israel, so only in that sense would her view be correct, but national Israel as of right now still not a nation back to God, but will be at the Second Coming event

 

[Major]

In my thinking, since the Church proper is now spiritual Israel, so only in that sense would her view be correct, but national Israel as of right now still not a nation back to God, but will be at the Second Coming event

My dear brother.....please, please rethink that thought!

The Church is the Church and Israel is Israel. Please understand that the Bible never mentions this…NO not once.
As a matter of fact, the word church is not in the Bible…nor is the phrase spiritual Israel.

By Calling the church spiritual Israel actually causes us to miss the plan of God in assembling believers together in what the Bible calls one new humanity.

FYI....when Paul writes in Ephesians 2:11-22 he tells us something very important in that prior to Gentiles being included in the new humanity of God, they were excluded from Israel altogether. They were not familiar with the covenants and promises contained in the Hebrew Bible. Therefore, they were without God and without hope.

The covenant of law separated the people of Israel from the Gentiles. However, Jesus removed the law in his death and brought the Gentiles and the people of Israel together in one new humanity, the Church of which believing Jews are included by faith in Messiah Jesus!

 

[YeshuaFan]

My dear brother.....please, please rethink that thought!

The Church is the Church and Israel is Israel. Please understand that the Bible never mentions this…NO not once.
As a matter of fact, the word church is not in the Bible…nor is the phrase spiritual Israel.

By Calling the church spiritual Israel actually causes us to miss the plan of God in assembling believers together in what the Bible calls one new humanity.

FYI....when Paul writes in Ephesians 2:11-22 he tells us something very important in that prior to Gentiles being included in the new humanity of God, they were excluded from Israel altogether. They were not familiar with the covenants and promises contained in the Hebrew Bible. Therefore, they were without God and without hope.

The covenant of law separated the people of Israel from the Gentiles. However, Jesus removed the law in his death and brought the Gentiles and the people of Israel together in one new humanity, the Church of which believing Jews are included by faith in Messiah Jesus!

The Church is the Israel of God, the saved Jews and Gentiles being now one in the same Body, with same Lord Messiah over them both.
National Israel still is in the plan of Yahweh, but that happens in time of Great tribulation and Second Coming events

 

[Major]

The Church is the Israel of God, the saved Jews and Gentiles being now one in the same Body, with same Lord Messiah over them both.
National Israel still is in the plan of Yahweh, but that happens in time of Great tribulation and Second Coming events

Israel of God refers to Jewish people who received Christ as their Savior and consequently belong to the church. It does not refer to the entire church.

When that idea comes about, this view then in effect says that the church constitutes the true and only Israel today and that, hereafter, Christians become “spiritual Israel” or “spiritual” Jews, and all New Testament promises concerning Israel will be fulfilled in the church and do not apply to ethnic Jewish people or the literal nation of Israel.

 

[Dave F.]

Romans 11:17-24
17) But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18) do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19) Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20) That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22) Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23) And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24) For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Seems to me that we are all, through Jesus, a part of the same tree. Thus, we are all one. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, but, one people of GOD.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Romans 11:17-24
17) But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18) do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19) Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20) That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22) Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23) And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24) For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Seems to me that we are all, through Jesus, a part of the same tree. Thus, we are all one. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, but, one people of GOD.

One Covenant people now