How would you define gift of prophecy for today then?
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
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IF we are talking about the "FORTHTELLING" of the Scriptures which is the gift of teaching then the answer is YES.
However, if we are talking about "FORETELLING" the future, or giving a message from God that is not in the written Word of God then the answer is NO!
The scariest phrase and the one that every believer should shudder when they here it said is........"God spoke to ME and said"!
My advice when you here that is.......RUN!
IMHO it does not exist today!
IF we are talking about the "FORTHTELLING" of the Scriptures which is the gift of teaching then the answer is YES.
However, if we are talking about "FORETELLING" the future, or giving a message from God that is not in the written Word of God then the answer is NO!
The scariest phrase and the one that every believer should shudder when they here it said is........"God spoke to ME and said"!
My advice when you here that is.......RUN!
I believe in the Prophetic gift for the Body of Christ today. Not of course all the rubbish that is passed off as so-called prophecy on utube. God`s word says -
`The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.` (Rev. 19: 10)
And of the true prophecies that I have heard over the years it is the Lord the head of the Body expounding some part of His word to us about Himself.
Another important scripture is -
`And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ TILL we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect (mature) man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.` (Eph. 4: 11 - 13)
And the Body of Christ has NOT come to that yet and thus needs ALL of the ministry of Christ the Head.
Think a large confusion on now is that people fail to see even IF, which I doubt, gift of prophesy still active that would NOT be stating they were operating in the office of a prophet now
The scriptures themselves though are all we need for spiritual doctrines, truths, and maturity
However, it is the Spirit that gives life, illumination upon God`s Word.
Explain that for us please. What are you actually saying????
I do not believe that Ephesians 4:11-13 can be used to say that prophets are valid today. That idea is actually "reading into" the Scriptures what we want them to say.
The CONTEXTUAL meaning of the word "prophet" was a temporary gift given by the Christ for the laying of the foundation of the universal church. According to Ephesians 2:20 Prophets were foundational to the first church.
The prophet proclaimed a message from the Lord for the believers of the first century. These believers did not have the advantage we have of having a complete Bible. The last book of the New Testament (Revelation) was not completed until late in the first century. So the Lord provided gifted men called prophets who proclaimed messages from God to the people until the canon of Scripture was complete.
I say that to say that It should be noted that the current teaching of the restoration of prophet and the office of apostle is far from what Scripture describes of the men who held the gift of prophet and the office of apostle.
The men who claim to be apostles and prophets today make themselves the final authority, something Paul and the Twelve never did. In everything, and in all of his teaching and writings, Paul kept pointing people to the Bible as the final authority.
And, I think that it should be pointed out that Scripture refers to these men (Prophets & Apostles) in the past tense.
In 2 Peter 3:2 and in Jude 3-4 and in the Ephesians 4:11-13 notice the literal words...."He gave some"! = Past tense.
All of those Scriptures state that people should not stray from the message the apostles gave (past tense).
Hebrews 2:3-4 also speaks in the past tense of the those who performed (in the past) signs, wonders, miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Are you trying to say that there are prophets who speak for God today in a round about way?
"Illumination" is a very ambiguous word.
A flash lite illuminates the back yard.
A cars head lights illuminates the road at night.
Psalm 18:28 says, .....
“You, O LORD, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light.”
Or, are you suggesting that illumination in the spiritual sense is “turning on the light” of understanding in some area.????
Psalms 119: 130 says .......
“The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.” This verse establishes the basic method of God’s illumination. "
IF you are saying that Regular study of the Word of God will give direction and understanding in the issues of life...
I AGREE!!!!
However, if you are saying that "humans" have the ability to hear from God directly outside of the Scriptures and use "GOD SPOKE TO ME AND SAID"......Than i say NO!
It must be understood that If anyone says "The Lord told me..." or "God spoke to me and said" and then they proceed to quote the Lord in their books or blogs, or their sermons, they are recording God's Word, except its new, and not in God's Word, the Bible. They are adding to the Word of God which is specifically forbidden!
Joseph Smith, Charles Russel, Mohanned, Jim Jones all said ....The Lord spoke to me and said"!
Someone did speak to them but it was not the God of creation but was instead Satan!
Oh Major,
So Eph. 4: 11 - 13 -
`And He Himself gave some ....TILL we all come to the unity of the Faith...`
You say should read -
`And He Himself gave some ...... until the canon of Scripture was complete.
How would you define gift of prophecy for today then?
Hello YeshuaFan;
This morning I read the question to your thread. As I was going about my day a thought came to me.
I've been a follower of Christ for many years and have never once experienced a person proclaim a prophetic word and come to fruition.
"Yes, but, a prophecy or prophetic word is meant for the distant future." I've also heard this used loosely, but my discernment says to me, it just doesn't sink in from the outside proclaimers.
What I have heard from self proclaimed prophets like Harold Camping from the SF Bay Area (predicted the end of the world in 2009.) His prophecy scared a large part of the community. But it didn't come to fruition. 3 years later he passed away.
Benny Hinn who made a lot of "prophetic noise" (here in the Bay Area) claiming they were from God, later apologized admitting they were inaccurate. I appreciate his confession but discerned he had to sound remorse to rebound his ministry.
The only "messages" I witnessed is from the Bible. God gave a message to His Prophets (Angels to Prophets and servants) and there was no account of a True Prophet retracting a message he/she received from God.
Now, without a doubt there are many good men and women of God. They memorize and articulate the Scriptures beautifully, then say they have a "message from God." But like I shared earlier, I have never experienced a person proclaim a prophetic word and it's fruition.
I have witnessed answered prayers, healing from illness, reconciliation, spiritual growth in a believer's walk, etc...and for that I can defend my apologetics.
But how can I defend the gift of prophecy for today when I have yet to experience it?
God bless everyone.
Bob
So true, and then how can I discount God speaking through human vessels as in prophecy when I grew up with so many wonderful ones. I will go and write one for example. They were quite long and the ladies wrote them in short-hand and later typed them up for all to read. My grandmother kept many expecially from the conventions in Wales.
`it is the Spirit who giveslife; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.` (John 6: 63)
People can just read God`s word and it is all just words, however, when the Holy Spirit moves upon the written word then it becomes alive, life.
Marlyin, I respect and honor your confession and would never argue with you on it. We can discuss this all day and there is nothing I can say that will alter your opinion.
However, I would also say that Any modern claim to "prophecy" or a "word from God/God spoke to ME" today must be in accordance with Scripture, as God’s revealed Word remains our ultimate authority.
If and when we (Church) accepts a mans "Prophesy" as a word directly from God to him, we have immediately rejected the written Word of God in Acts 10:34.........
"So Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,".
The statement “God is no respecter of persons” means that God does not show favoritism or partiality.
IF or when a man says......
"God spoke to ME or the Lord has spoken to ME, or the Lord has given ME a word of knowledge", that is exactly showing favoritism to the person making that claim.
May I also say at this point, If God were to speak through a person today, it would be in 100% complete agreement with what God has already said in the Bible. God does not contradict Himself.
That means to ME that if a man claims something, says something or teaches something, and If it agrees with the Bible, pray for wisdom and discernment as to how to apply the message. If it does not agree with what God has already said, throw it out and walk away.
Agreed. BUT.........the problem is that most people do not read the Bible and those who do are so rooted in false teachings that they reject what it actually says.
That fact right there is why there are Catholic believers and Pentecostal believers. They have believed what sounds good to them but what a man says is not what God has said!
You said.......
" But like I shared earlier, I have never experienced a person proclaim a prophetic word and it's fruition."
Amen!
In all of the "Words from God/God told me/the lord spoke to me/a word of knowledge" that I have personally heard, every single one of them has in the end meant one of two things.
1. I need more power/authority.
2. I need more money.
We defiantly are in need of men who are powerful and educated so as to speak the Word of God that is in the Bible, but the idea that God speaks to certain men and tells them information that no one else receives is ALIAN to the Word of God.
That action speaks of favoritism which the Bible rejects outright.