Righteous Indignation

In another thread or two, we have been considering forgiveness. Both in terms of God's forgiveness of our failings, and in terms of our forgiveness of others.

I think we can agree that the Lord desires that we have a forgiving heart, and turn the other cheek but, are there instance where the better course is to forcefully (and possibly publicly and/or loudly) confront someone that has, or continues to wrong us?

From a Biblical perspective, the clearing of the Temple by our Lord comes to mind quickly. Also, Paul provides a defense of Himself when others had spoken against him.
 
In my opinion given all of the emphasis that the Word of Life does to speak about walking in love and forgiveness, staying out of being offended.... Forcefully confronting anyone is not what God desires. And is opposite of 1 Corinthians 13:5. Where the Holy Spirit spoke through the apostle Paul instructing/giving us knowledge of (the love of the Father that in Romans 5:5 says that was poured into us) to not allow our own selves be in the center of attention. Love does not insist on its own ways or rights. It is not touchy, fretful, or resentful and is not self seeking and it does not take into account a suffered wrong or any evil done to it (the love of the father within us).

When we make the choice to forgive and not allow our emotions to control us... It opens the door for the Lord of Glory to move in the spiritual realm on our behalf. It's when we start getting emotional and walking in unforgiveness (which is offense) is when we open the door to the enemy to work his evil ways in our lives or situations. Each seed whether strife or love will produce after it's own kind. And love is stronger than strife. Meaning if we can stay in love... That love will quickly change and turn strife in another person around

Think about a spouse that has been physically abused by another spouse... Would we counsel the one who is being beat to confront their attacker? Most of us would say... Just get out and get to safety.

God and His love is our refuge and safety place. If we can get to that safety, by keeping ourselves and our emotions controlled... We will find that safety, grace and peace. And then He will move in our lives.

When the disciples asked Jesus if He wanted them to command fire from heaven to he rained down on people who didn't receive Him... He rebuked them and severely sensored them and said you know not of which spirit you are... Meaning to ask the Father to do evil to someone is not of a godly spirit... Why? Because God is love. Not self promotion or vengeance.

Sometimes we don't realize that we really don't need to do anything to someone who has done us wrong. Why? Because the sin or bad behavior that they have partnered with will bring about its own consequences in their lives. If they repent for their actions then God considers that as to say that they have judged themselves in error and they will find themselves in right standing with Him and being a recipient of His grace. And if that person is walking or paying attention to the Spirit... Then the Holy Spirit will impress upon them to go and make amends.

We can show great trust in The Father's Love for us when we make the choice to walk in love at all times and let all of the rest go. For when the their has been found out... he will be required to repay us 7 fold of what was stolen. But if we demand our own rights and the ability to express our own ungodly feelings and emotions... We will be left with a door open to the enemy to bring more of the evil into our lives instead of the love, grace and favor that we desire.

I do think also that there is also a time (if the Holy Spirit leads us that way) to peacefully have a discussion with someone about something ... But I believe it needs to be of His leading. We are commanded to love "even as" God for the sake of Christ (the anointing of the anointed one) loves us. And He chooses to forget about all our wrongdoing just so that He can bless us.

I apologize of I took this in a direction other than you intended.

Blessings to you and your family brother Siloam
Fcj and Cturtle
 
In another thread or two, we have been considering forgiveness. Both in terms of God's forgiveness of our failings, and in terms of our forgiveness of others.

I think we can agree that the Lord desires that we have a forgiving heart, and turn the other cheek but, are there instance where the better course is to forcefully (and possibly publicly and/or loudly) confront someone that has, or continues to wrong us?

From a Biblical perspective, the clearing of the Temple by our Lord comes to mind quickly. Also, Paul provides a defense of Himself when others had spoken against him.

A scenario:

A father who is an alcoholic is teaching his son to avoid alcohol.
  1. Is it blind leading the blind?
    • NO. the father clearly sees alcoholism is bad.
  2. Is it a case take out one mote in the eye before one admonish another?
    • No, the father clearly sees he is in a mess and don’t want his son to go the same mess.
  3. Is the father a Hypocrite?
    • No, a Hypocrite root word “an actor”, a “pretender”. One who refuse to see, that is: BLIND of his own shortcoming.
Thus, related to topic: Forgiveness:

Is the FORGIVER need to deal the issue with the FORGIVEN?

Yes, I think: there may at times or situation that there be a need: the critical part is the intention why the mistake is being pinpointed.

The intention of forgiveness (the intention to make it clear the offense) is to build one another : that is: it builds up the Forgiven, as well as it builds up the Forgiver.

It is on the assumption that BOTH: the Person A and Person B agrees that an offense was made. (by agrees: it means both CAN SEE that there is an indeed an offense happened.

If Person B is denies the claim of offense by Person A: that will be another topic. They cannot see (agree) with each other on an issue.
 
A scenario:

A father who is an alcoholic is teaching his son to avoid alcohol.
  1. Is it blind leading the blind?
    • NO. the father clearly sees alcoholism is bad.
  2. Is it a case take out one mote in the eye before one admonish another?
    • No, the father clearly sees he is in a mess and don’t want his son to go the same mess.
  3. Is the father a Hypocrite?
    • No, a Hypocrite root word “an actor”, a “pretender”. One who refuse to see, that is: BLIND of his own shortcoming.
Thus, related to topic: Forgiveness:

Is the FORGIVER need to deal the issue with the FORGIVEN?

Yes, I think: there may at times be a need: the critical part is the intention why the mistake is being pinpointed.

The intention of forgiveness (the intention to make it clear the offense) is to build one another : that is: it builds up the Forgiven, as well as it builds up the Forgiver.

It is on the assumption that BOTH: the Person A and Person B agrees that an offense was made. (by agrees: it means both CAN SEE that there is an indeed an offense happened.

If Person B is denies the claim of offense by Person A: that will be another topic. They cannot see (agree) with each other on an issue.

Example with Alcohol is quite a different scenario then showing some one their faults. So the mote in the eye is a weak example if that. :)

See the problem is every one is focused on I. What they did to me or how wrong that was against I.
Now that borders a selfish spirit. All about self.

Far to many times Mr or Mrs Christian get their little bitty feelings hurt and their emotions control their thoughts and they dig up go confront your brother .

That's hog wosh.
First...most of the time the person that Mr or Mrs is offended by does not even know what they did was a sin. God is not holding it against them because they have not the light yet to see.
Sin is something we know is wrong but do it any way.

So here goes Mr and Mrs to point out the others faults.......now judgment comes to Mr and mrs. Remember Don't judge lest yee be judged? That means you judge then you are going to be judged.

Guess who makes sure of this? Why of course the accuser of the brethren satan himself. he knows if he can get judgment on YOU he has now a LEGAL RIGHT into your affairs especially in that area. So now until you repent......satan has an open door all because Mr and Mrs were so petty and touchy feeling they just had to judge a brother and point out his fault.

But.....the problem is......Mr and Mrs are not perfect like God. So now they have given the devil the right to hold their faults against them. HENCE.....get the mote out of your eye first. .....meaning don't let any kind of sin be found in you if your gonna judge another.

Now if Mr and Mrs went to the brother and said, man we struggled with that for years but let me tell you how the Lord delivered us...
Now Mr and Mrs have given no place to the devil.

New Testament Commandment....
Love one another as I have Loved you.
Can one love as God Loved us and still be so selfish they must confront one another or petty stupid things? No !!

Now if it is going to cause harm to them or you or some one else then go in Love and minister unto them. Do Not Condemn their actions or you will be judged.

People think Matthew. Mark, Luke and John are the Gospels or New Covenant. They are not and should not even be in their as such.

Jesus came as a Jewish man and was anointed as a prophet. He spoke and talked from the Old Covenant ........watch this.....which spoke about Him the one to come. Every once in awhile Jesus hinted about what was to come.

The New Testament or New Covenant Did Not Manifest until after the cross.

The old covenant was based on one's performance. If they could be good enough. If they could perform good enough to get God's Blessings. Think.......if you do then God Will but if you don't do all these curses and bad things are going to kill you.
If you do this then God Will do this.

Not So any more. JESUS DID it for us. We who are in Christ do not have to perform to get God's Blessing but BELIEVE. There is more to that for sure. :)

That's the problem today......we have churches still teaching under the wrong Covenant and God Can Not Honor it.
There is way more to that.... :)

Brother this is but a tip of the iceberg.
Think about this.....satan wants our light out. How can he do this? By getting us into our emotions. Emotions control thoughts and thoughts control attitude and actions.

Oh Mr and Mrs failed to control their emotions and got offended at a brother and had to go point it out and demand repent for hurting our pour itty bitty feelings......rotfl......another Christian allows satan to dim their light and pull them off course.

Paul said light aflictions to what? And believers just have to confront one another.

We Need to Know which Contract we are under and live by it.
Thanks for listening my brother and friend.
Have a very wonderfully blessed day.
FCJ
 
I think it takes God to convict someones heart but he may send a third party messenger to speak His words to the person in the wrong. For example when David commited adultery with Bathsheba, it was not Uriah that confronted him it was Nathan the prophet.
And I dont think Uriah was involved or knew that much about it, the Bible isnt clear that he was hurt. And the adultery was not hurtful to Nathan personally.

Also when people do wrong their actions and behaviour speak a lot louder than what they actually say. For example when Solomon asked who was the mother of this child and the two women both claimed they were the mother. So he said he would cut the child in half. The one that was the real mother cried and said no to give the child to the other! The one that wasnt was like ok whatever and acted indifferent.

Siloam another example of someone confronting wrong in the Bible that comes to mind is Paul with simon the sorcerer. Simon was claiming he was doing magic and it was of God but he then saw the apostles performing miracles which were greater than his and he believed. BUT he tried to give them money for the power of the holy ghost. Peter rightly confronted him about how his hear was not right with God. This was in public. It wasnt that Peter personally was offended but it sure offends the Lord Almighty when someone offers to buy the gift of the Holy Ghost! See Acts 8:9-24

When someone hurts our feelings its just the devil trying to make us feel small, dont give him a foothold. Our God is greater. Do not return evil for evil instead return evil with good.
 
I think it takes God to convict someones heart but he may send a third party messenger to speak His words to the person in the wrong. For example when David commited adultery with Bathsheba, it was not Uriah that confronted him it was Nathan the prophet.
And I dont think Uriah was involved or knew that much about it, the Bible isnt clear that he was hurt. And the adultery was not hurtful to Nathan personally.


Lanolin maybe you should slow down a tad and pay more attention to what you are reading.....
David sent Uriah to the front to be killed. It's kind of difficult for a dead man to say much or confront some one.....

Yes God sent His Prophet but it was over far more then simply adultery.

This is not even close to another NT believer going and pointing out another's faults.

Remember Moses and Jesus can't share the same house.
Meanjng......old covenant ways can not function under the New Covenant.

Blessings
 
A brother I knew a few years back was kind of a hothead. When anyone talked with him about this he would respond that He was not verbaly attacking, he was "rebuking" as if useing that word made it OK. I guess he thought that made it sound righteous when it really just confused everyone more and highlighted his failure. He also would say that He was only taking "the TRUTH" as if that made everything OK, or even laudible.

I know that although he was given his proper say in church membership meetings (A kind of round table discussion that was held once a month), his words swayed very few.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aha
A brother I knew a few years back was kind of a hothead. When anyone talked with him about this he would respond that He was not verbaly attacking, he was "rebuking" as if useing that word made it OK. I guess he thought that made it sound righteous when it really just confused everyone more and highlighted his failure. He also would say that He was only taking "the TRUTH" as if that made everything OK, or even laudible.

I know that although he was given his proper say in church membership meetings (A kind of round table discussion that was held once a month), his words swayed very few.
Some people always have to put their two cents into everything and argue the point till the cows come home, but its more about themselves being perceived as right in their own eyes rather than upholding the truth. As there is only one truth - and thats in Jesus.
We are to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. Yes absolutely.

As for hotheads, even they are to account for every idle word they say. People will see they being rude or just talking rubbish and hurting others and its not fooling anybody.

When we use the word of God as our sword, its not to poke other people, its to rightly divide the word of truth so that everyone can see. Nobody is going to listen to you if you bash people over the head even if its with the Bible. But they may listen if you are actually going to open up the Bible and look inside and share that story.

With Uriah, well this is before he got killed right. Did he know? He was unaware. But other people in bathshebas hosuehold and Kind Davids court may have known what was going on and turned a blind eye. Only Nathan was able to confront David about it. How did he do this, well he told a story! He didnt accuse David directly. Its difficult to actually tell a bully they are a bully and that they are wrong! The bully is likely to retaliate!

Am using this as an example as all things in OT are written for our learning right?
 
Lanolin maybe you should slow down a tad and pay more attention to what you are reading.....
David sent Uriah to the front to be killed. It's kind of difficult for a dead man to say much or confront some one.....

Yes God sent His Prophet but it was over far more then simply adultery.

This is not even close to another NT believer going and pointing out another's faults.

Remember Moses and Jesus can't share the same house.
Meanjng......old covenant ways can not function under the New Covenant.

Blessings
Fcj am just seeing the connection we can learn from how Nathan confronted David about his fault.
Also Matthew 18 comes to mind how we handle this.
Tell them their fault in private if they listen and accept you have gained a brother. If they not going to listen have another witness and two go together. If still not willing to listen, then tell it to the church, and if STILL not then you have to treat this person as an unbeliever, which may mean you avoid them and have nothing more to do with them i.e cant fellowship.

As for Moses and Jesus not sharing the same house not sure what you mean about that. Moses was up with Elijah appearing with Jesus on the mount when he got transfigured. But yes moses and Jesus handled things differently, Moses was not always patien with his people. Jesus was. Although at times even Jesus got frustrated but he wasnt angry to the point that he gave up on his disciples.
 
Example with Alcohol is quite a different scenario then showing some one their faults. So the mote in the eye is a weak example if that. :)

See the problem is every one is focused on I. What they did to me or how wrong that was against I.
Now that borders a selfish spirit. All about self.

Far to many times Mr or Mrs Christian get their little bitty feelings hurt and their emotions control their thoughts and they dig up go confront your brother .

That's hog wosh.
First...most of the time the person that Mr or Mrs is offended by does not even know what they did was a sin. God is not holding it against them because they have not the light yet to see.
Sin is something we know is wrong but do it any way.

So here goes Mr and Mrs to point out the others faults.......now judgment comes to Mr and mrs. Remember Don't judge lest yee be judged? That means you judge then you are going to be judged.

Guess who makes sure of this? Why of course the accuser of the brethren satan himself. he knows if he can get judgment on YOU he has now a LEGAL RIGHT into your affairs especially in that area. So now until you repent......satan has an open door all because Mr and Mrs were so petty and touchy feeling they just had to judge a brother and point out his fault.

But.....the problem is......Mr and Mrs are not perfect like God. So now they have given the devil the right to hold their faults against them. HENCE.....get the mote out of your eye first. .....meaning don't let any kind of sin be found in you if your gonna judge another.

Now if Mr and Mrs went to the brother and said, man we struggled with that for years but let me tell you how the Lord delivered us...
Now Mr and Mrs have given no place to the devil.

New Testament Commandment....
Love one another as I have Loved you.
Can one love as God Loved us and still be so selfish they must confront one another or petty stupid things? No !!

Now if it is going to cause harm to them or you or some one else then go in Love and minister unto them. Do Not Condemn their actions or you will be judged.

People think Matthew. Mark, Luke and John are the Gospels or New Covenant. They are not and should not even be in their as such.

Jesus came as a Jewish man and was anointed as a prophet. He spoke and talked from the Old Covenant ........watch this.....which spoke about Him the one to come. Every once in awhile Jesus hinted about what was to come.

The New Testament or New Covenant Did Not Manifest until after the cross.

The old covenant was based on one's performance. If they could be good enough. If they could perform good enough to get God's Blessings. Think.......if you do then God Will but if you don't do all these curses and bad things are going to kill you.
If you do this then God Will do this.

Not So any more. JESUS DID it for us. We who are in Christ do not have to perform to get God's Blessing but BELIEVE. There is more to that for sure. :)

That's the problem today......we have churches still teaching under the wrong Covenant and God Can Not Honor it.
There is way more to that.... :)

Brother this is but a tip of the iceberg.
Think about this.....satan wants our light out. How can he do this? By getting us into our emotions. Emotions control thoughts and thoughts control attitude and actions.

Oh Mr and Mrs failed to control their emotions and got offended at a brother and had to go point it out and demand repent for hurting our pour itty bitty feelings......rotfl......another Christian allows satan to dim their light and pull them off course.

Paul said light aflictions to what? And believers just have to confront one another.

We Need to Know which Contract we are under and live by it.
Thanks for listening my brother and friend.
Have a very wonderfully blessed day.
FCJ

Thanks for the another thread: https://christianforumsite.com/threads/love-god-with-your-whole-heart.51326/#post-479807

It saved me a lot of time in my learning to know the importance of knowing what makes different is the New Covenant.

It gave me glimpse of POWER and PRIVILEGE (that is: confidence to approach the throne of Grace) and POISE how to deal with others… not intended to make it 3Ps :) it just so happen those "terms" come into mind.
 
In my opinion given all of the emphasis that the Word of Life does to speak about walking in love and forgiveness, staying out of being offended.... Forcefully confronting anyone is not what God desires. And is opposite of 1 Corinthians 13:5. Where the Holy Spirit spoke through the apostle Paul instructing/giving us knowledge of (the love of the Father that in Romans 5:5 says that was poured into us) to not allow our own selves be in the center of attention. Love does not insist on its own ways or rights. It is not touchy, fretful, or resentful and is not self seeking and it does not take into account a suffered wrong or any evil done to it (the love of the father within us).

When we make the choice to forgive and not allow our emotions to control us... It opens the door for the Lord of Glory to move in the spiritual realm on our behalf. It's when we start getting emotional and walking in unforgiveness (which is offense) is when we open the door to the enemy to work his evil ways in our lives or situations. Each seed whether strife or love will produce after it's own kind. And love is stronger than strife. Meaning if we can stay in love... That love will quickly change and turn strife in another person around

Think about a spouse that has been physically abused by another spouse... Would we counsel the one who is being beat to confront their attacker? Most of us would say... Just get out and get to safety.

God and His love is our refuge and safety place. If we can get to that safety, by keeping ourselves and our emotions controlled... We will find that safety, grace and peace. And then He will move in our lives.

When the disciples asked Jesus if He wanted them to command fire from heaven to he rained down on people who didn't receive Him... He rebuked them and severely sensored them and said you know not of which spirit you are... Meaning to ask the Father to do evil to someone is not of a godly spirit... Why? Because God is love. Not self promotion or vengeance.

Sometimes we don't realize that we really don't need to do anything to someone who has done us wrong. Why? Because the sin or bad behavior that they have partnered with will bring about its own consequences in their lives. If they repent for their actions then God considers that as to say that they have judged themselves in error and they will find themselves in right standing with Him and being a recipient of His grace. And if that person is walking or paying attention to the Spirit... Then the Holy Spirit will impress upon them to go and make amends.

We can show great trust in The Father's Love for us when we make the choice to walk in love at all times and let all of the rest go. For when the their has been found out... he will be required to repay us 7 fold of what was stolen. But if we demand our own rights and the ability to express our own ungodly feelings and emotions... We will be left with a door open to the enemy to bring more of the evil into our lives instead of the love, grace and favor that we desire.

I do think also that there is also a time (if the Holy Spirit leads us that way) to peacefully have a discussion with someone about something ... But I believe it needs to be of His leading. We are commanded to love "even as" God for the sake of Christ (the anointing of the anointed one) loves us. And He chooses to forget about all our wrongdoing just so that He can bless us.

I apologize of I took this in a direction other than you intended.

Blessings to you and your family brother Siloam
Fcj and Cturtle

Amen. that is a Grace-full response.
And as I see it, I saw a glimpse of Christian maturity (meaning to say, am not yet there :)

BUT: I does says: there is a time to response, with the Holy Spirit guidance..i think that is what am trying to say in my post.

Quote:
"I do think also that there is also a time (if the Holy Spirit leads us that way) to peacefully have a discussion with someone about something ... But I believe it needs to be of His leading. We are commanded to love "even as" God for the sake of Christ (the anointing of the anointed one) loves us. And He chooses to forget about all our wrongdoing just so that He can bless us."
 
A brother I knew a few years back was kind of a hothead. When anyone talked with him about this he would respond that He was not verbaly attacking, he was "rebuking" as if useing that word made it OK. I guess he thought that made it sound righteous when it really just confused everyone more and highlighted his failure. He also would say that He was only taking "the TRUTH" as if that made everything OK, or even laudible.

I know that although he was given his proper say in church membership meetings (A kind of round table discussion that was held once a month), his words swayed very few.

hotheaded? "the TRUTH" as the "little truth" we see

oh my, i can relate to that, now describing how to deal with us like that :)

edit:
a related thread reply: https://christianforumsite.com/threads/examine-yourself.51311/
 
Last edited:
Amen. that is a Grace-full response.
And as I see it, I saw a glimpse of Christian maturity (meaning to say, am not yet there :)

BUT: I does says: there is a time to response, with the Holy Spirit guidance..i think that is what am trying to say in my post.

Quote:
"I do think also that there is also a time (if the Holy Spirit leads us that way) to peacefully have a discussion with someone about something ... But I believe it needs to be of His leading. We are commanded to love "even as" God for the sake of Christ (the anointing of the anointed one) loves us. And He chooses to forget about all our wrongdoing just so that He can bless us."

Thank you for the compliment. The Holy Spirit is still helping me in all the areas that need work, because I'm not fully there yet either.. lol. But in all honesty... I'm just the typist :) yielding my fingers (or more accurately thumbs... Lol) to let Him put forth what He desires to be said. Now the real challenge is to keep putting this into practice. :)
 
Jesus clearing of the temple was nothing compared to Gods wrath (or righteous indignation) tearing the temple veil and allowing it to be destroyed by the Romans. Jesus did warn everyone to flee Jerusalem when it happened.
 
Jesus clearing of the temple was nothing compared to Gods wrath (or righteous indignation) tearing the temple veil and allowing it to be destroyed by the Romans. Jesus did warn everyone to flee Jerusalem when it happened.

The tearing of the veil was God inviting all believers into the Holy of Holys.
 
It must have taken a lot to tear that temple curtain. It was really thick.
Jesus clearing of the temple was like a clean sweep. You know when you are cleaning something and maybe attack the job with fury. It was kind if like that.
Its not a bad thing its a good thing. Nobody wants thieves and robbers in the house of God.
 
It must have taken a lot to tear that temple curtain. It was really thick.
Jesus clearing of the temple was like a clean sweep. You know when you are cleaning something and maybe attack the job with fury. It was kind if like that.
Its not a bad thing its a good thing. Nobody wants thieves and robbers in the house of God.
It was not just the money changers that angered our Lord. God's people could not be bothered during the week to prepare and bring their offerings. It was like going to church and waiting until the plate is being passed before looking in your wallet to determine that your contribution is proper.
 
It was not just the money changers that angered our Lord. God's people could not be bothered during the week to prepare and bring their offerings. It was like going to church and waiting until the plate is being passed before looking in your wallet to determine that your contribution is proper.
I dont think it was that necessarily it was people were making money out of the offerings. If you had to sacrifice two turtledoves for example and you didnt have any of your own you had to go and buy them, because thats whats required, as God doesnt accept money itself as an offering...only way he accepts money is as alms to be distributed to the poor.
Fair enough. With the money changers they were actually making a profit from it. It wasnt maybe a donation. JEsus parents could only afford two turtledoves.

This is how I see it. I dont think its akin to your church offering example. Otherwise Jesus parents would have been penalised for not having any of their own turtledoves. They actually had to buy them. It was that people were making a proft and merchandising it. Especially targeting those who were poor and could only afford turtledoves, he didnt chase the lamb sellers out.

It would be like people counting the tithe and keeping some of it for themselves. With the money changers they were actually making money from it. Its also like if you sold any merchandise for profit at church.
 
If you ask Jesus what he thought about it well the answer is clear in the Bible he doesnt want his house to be a den of theives or people making merchandise out of the gospel. Its like if you went to church and you had to buy a bible or rent a pew to sit there.

He wants it to be a house of prayer. Our prayer is as incense to God. He accepts that. More than sacrifices.
 
Back
Top