“This Cup”!

[Note] The intention of this article is to express the depth of the Lord Jesus’ willingness to relate with us concerning the infirmity of all our trials in this life!



Was Jesus’ cry of desertion on the Cross a manifestation of Him actually being “forsaken” by the Father, or could it have been to show how far He went to “be touched with the feeling of our infirmities” (Heb 4:15)? Though this issue carries no essential doctrine for receiving salvation, I’ve come to find it interesting to attempt a determination in considering whether of the two might be most likely. Myself, the latter seems more than a little possible, considering all that was involved with “this cup,” which first began in the “garden” when He admitted to Peter, James and John that He had become “exceedingly sorrowful” and sought their support in being on “watch” with Him (Mat 26:37; 38, 40).

Even though an angel appeared to Jesus, “to strengthen Him” (Luk 22:42) following His first request to determine some other way than “this cup,” He was still in agony upon His second request, “sweating as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground” (v 44). During His arrest He also knew He would be enduring the hardness of knowing the sorrow (after His third prayer request - Mat 26:44) His Apostles would encounter after forsaking Him” (Mat 26:56; Jhn 16:20, 22); which was to fulfill the prophecy that “I will smite the Shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad” (Zec 13:7; Mat 26:31).

Including all this, and that which the Lord Jesus endured from the “garden” to the time of beginning His walk with the Cross—to the time of His death, I wouldn’t consider it inordinate to entertain the thought that it was possible that allowing Himself (Jhn 19:11) to be overcome with so great excruciating infirmity resulted in His feeling of abandonment concerning His Apostles and His Father.

Considering that the Father and the Son are inseparable (Jhn 8:16, 29); and that there’s nothing that the Father hasn’t already known and seen with His omniscience, including all of the sin in the world (Prov 15:3; Jer 16:17; Heb 4:13), there remains little, in my opinion, to conceive that God was so moved (as it were) that He could not continue to look upon His Son, despite the depth that Christ achieved being “compassed with infirmity” (Heb 5:2) and “exceeding sorrow, even unto death” (Mat 26:38)! Yet, through all this His encouraging final words were, “It is finished.” “Father, into thy hands I commend My Spirit” (Jhn 19:30; Luk 23:46).



“Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave Me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me” (Jhn 16:32).
 
[Note] The intention of this article is to express the depth of the Lord Jesus’ willingness to relate with us concerning the infirmity of all our trials in this life!



Was Jesus’ cry of desertion on the Cross a manifestation of Him actually being “forsaken” by the Father, or could it have been to show how far He went to “be touched with the feeling of our infirmities” (Heb 4:15)? Though this issue carries no essential doctrine for receiving salvation, I’ve come to find it interesting to attempt a determination in considering whether of the two might be most likely. Myself, the latter seems more than a little possible, considering all that was involved with “this cup,” which first began in the “garden” when He admitted to Peter, James and John that He had become “exceedingly sorrowful” and sought their support in being on “watch” with Him (Mat 26:37; 38, 40).

Even though an angel appeared to Jesus, “to strengthen Him” (Luk 22:42) following His first request to determine some other way than “this cup,” He was still in agony upon His second request, “sweating as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground” (v 44). During His arrest He also knew He would be enduring the hardness of knowing the sorrow (after His third prayer request - Mat 26:44) His Apostles would encounter after forsaking Him” (Mat 26:56; Jhn 16:20, 22); which was to fulfill the prophecy that “I will smite the Shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad” (Zec 13:7; Mat 26:31).

Including all this, and that which the Lord Jesus endured from the “garden” to the time of beginning His walk with the Cross—to the time of His death, I wouldn’t consider it inordinate to entertain the thought that it was possible that allowing Himself (Jhn 19:11) to be overcome with so great excruciating infirmity resulted in His feeling of abandonment concerning His Apostles and His Father.

Considering that the Father and the Son are inseparable (Jhn 8:16, 29); and that there’s nothing that the Father hasn’t already known and seen with His omniscience, including all of the sin in the world (Prov 15:3; Jer 16:17; Heb 4:13), there remains little, in my opinion, to conceive that God was so moved (as it were) that He could not continue to look upon His Son, despite the depth that Christ achieved being “compassed with infirmity” (Heb 5:2) and “exceeding sorrow, even unto death” (Mat 26:38)! Yet, through all this His encouraging final words were, “It is finished.” “Father, into thy hands I commend My Spirit” (Jhn 19:30; Luk 23:46).



“Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave Me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me” (Jhn 16:32).

I would agree. The drinking of the cup of the wrath of the father,a picture of the father striking the Son. The Son suffering unto the point of death or also as a parable described as sweat as if it was drops of blood and the crying out for strength of the Son began in the garden the first part of that 3 day demonstration promised in Isaiah 53.

Isaiah 53: 4-6 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
It would seem the Father put to sleep the disciples to remain true to the promise of two working as one .One God working as the Father, and the Son of man, Jesus. A witness to the whole world .

The demonstration promised above in Isaiah 53 it eliminates strength in prayer coming from the disciple as the sign of the peace of God a work of the father and Son alone.. .the gospel No work attributed to the hands of sinful mankind influenced by the god of this world.

Twice Jesus awoke them and asked for help of strength in prayer. When finished with that part of the demonstration they were awoken to move toward the cross.

Mathew 28:36-44 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

The second part of the three day and night demonstration is spoken of in the Old Testament below is the demonstration;. . . “betrayed into the hands of sinners”. as two different kinds of witnesses. . The witness of God the greater gospel witness .

Zechariah12: 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Psalm 22: 17-20 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
 
The demonstration promised above in Isaiah 53 it eliminates strength in prayer coming from the disciple as the sign of the peace of God a work of the father and Son alone.. .the gospel No work attributed to the hands of sinful mankind influenced by the god of this world.
Appreciate and agree with your comments, esp. the one here. Many are unaware that the present Covenant of which Christians are recipients, it is between God and His Son (Heb 13:20, 21). When Jesus said, "This cup is the new testament in My Blood" (Luk 22:20), He didn't say it was with man, like the Old Testament.

Covenant of Redemption: "Simply stated, the covenant of redemption is a covenant God the Father made with God the Son before the foundation of the world was laid, that if the Son would offer Himself up as an offering for sin, the Father would give Christ all those for whom He would die as a love gift. The elect, then, are a gift from the Father to the Son for suffering and dying to redeem them."
 
[Note] The intention of this article is to express the depth of the Lord Jesus’ willingness to relate with us concerning the infirmity of all our trials in this life!



Was Jesus’ cry of desertion on the Cross a manifestation of Him actually being “forsaken” by the Father, or could it have been to show how far He went to “be touched with the feeling of our infirmities” (Heb 4:15)? Though this issue carries no essential doctrine for receiving salvation, I’ve come to find it interesting to attempt a determination in considering whether of the two might be most likely. Myself, the latter seems more than a little possible, considering all that was involved with “this cup,” which first began in the “garden” when He admitted to Peter, James and John that He had become “exceedingly sorrowful” and sought their support in being on “watch” with Him (Mat 26:37; 38, 40).

Even though an angel appeared to Jesus, “to strengthen Him” (Luk 22:42) following His first request to determine some other way than “this cup,” He was still in agony upon His second request, “sweating as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground” (v 44). During His arrest He also knew He would be enduring the hardness of knowing the sorrow (after His third prayer request - Mat 26:44) His Apostles would encounter after forsaking Him” (Mat 26:56; Jhn 16:20, 22); which was to fulfill the prophecy that “I will smite the Shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad” (Zec 13:7; Mat 26:31).

Including all this, and that which the Lord Jesus endured from the “garden” to the time of beginning His walk with the Cross—to the time of His death, I wouldn’t consider it inordinate to entertain the thought that it was possible that allowing Himself (Jhn 19:11) to be overcome with so great excruciating infirmity resulted in His feeling of abandonment concerning His Apostles and His Father.

Considering that the Father and the Son are inseparable (Jhn 8:16, 29); and that there’s nothing that the Father hasn’t already known and seen with His omniscience, including all of the sin in the world (Prov 15:3; Jer 16:17; Heb 4:13), there remains little, in my opinion, to conceive that God was so moved (as it were) that He could not continue to look upon His Son, despite the depth that Christ achieved being “compassed with infirmity” (Heb 5:2) and “exceeding sorrow, even unto death” (Mat 26:38)! Yet, through all this His encouraging final words were, “It is finished.” “Father, into thy hands I commend My Spirit” (Jhn 19:30; Luk 23:46).



“Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave Me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me” (Jhn 16:32).


I have the most difficult time separating Jesus' Words on the cross into a different context than what He was saying, since any Jew there who heard those Words knew it was a direct reference to Psalm 22...

And that Psalm ends with:

23 "You who fear the Lord, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel! 24 For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help. 25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you I will fulfill my vows. 26 The poor will eat, and be satisfied; those who seek the Lord will praise him— may your hearts live forever! 27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, 28 for dominion belongs to the Lord and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive. 30 Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord. 31 They will proclaim his righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!"


Yes indeed - it IS finished! :)
 
I have the most difficult time separating Jesus' Words on the cross into a different context than what He was saying, since any Jew there who heard those Words knew it was a direct reference to Psalm 22...

And that Psalm ends with:

23 "You who fear the Lord, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel! 24 For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help. 25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you I will fulfill my vows. 26 The poor will eat, and be satisfied; those who seek the Lord will praise him— may your hearts live forever! 27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, 28 for dominion belongs to the Lord and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive. 30 Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord. 31 They will proclaim his righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!"


Yes indeed - it IS finished! :)
Hi and appreciate your input! The only Scripture support I've seen concerns faces that were hidden from the Lord Jesus:
Isa 53:3 "He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
 
Hi and appreciate your input! The only Scripture support I've seen concerns faces that were hidden from the Lord Jesus:
Isa 53:3 "He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

Yes, He was despised by men... that's more than clear.

Have you read the full of Psalm 22?

What He was not, in the end, was despised or scorned by God, for God heard His plea..

That Psalm begins as a lament for the situation, and ends with praise for Gods promises are true, and in Christ they are complete/finished! :)
 
Yes, this is also clear, and thanks for your comments!

I do apologize for being unable to hyperfocus on what He may have felt, it's just that to me, and to my own heart, the words of Christ as He was upon the cross, His dying words, between pointing to the Psalm by reciting the first line, My God, My God why have you forsaken me, and it is finished! He was telling me, I am your Messiah, and I have completed all in all, right here.

Those were His Words to my heart and in my understanding. And I thank Him for telling me so, Because that was Him, and He was there, for me.

I'm so sorry.
 
I do apologize for being unable to hyperfocus on what He may have felt, it's just that to me, and to my own heart, the words of Christ as He was upon the cross, His dying words, between pointing to the Psalm by reciting the first line, My God, My God why have you forsaken me, and it is finished! He was telling me, I am your Messiah, and I have completed all in all, right here.

Those were His Words to my heart and in my understanding. And I thank Him for telling me so, Because that was Him, and He was there, for me.

I'm so sorry.
Thanks for the encouraging reply, and no apology necessary, I think we are just sharing the same sediments in different ways. I have the same thoughts as yourself concerning how far the Lord Jesus went to express His love to the Father and for those who are His (as stated in the "Note" at the top).

God bless and God be blessed!
 
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