2Chor 3:16-17
- Thread starter Wwinnie
- Start date
'But even unto this day,
when Moses is read,
the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord,
the vail shall be taken away.
Now the Lord is that Spirit:
and where the Spirit of the Lord is,
there is liberty.'
(2 Cor. 3:15-17)
Hi Winnie,
it is Israel who are being referred to here with the words, 'their' and 'it'.
The Old Testament Israelite had his mind 'veiled' like the face of Moses (3:14) and the only way this blinding element could be removed was by coming into saving contact with Christ 'which veil is done away in Christ' (v.14), which is expressed by 'turning to the Lord' (v.16). This turning was vital to the Jew of the New Testament for salvation and will be so for the whole nation when in the future it looks on the Lord Jesus Christ at His second Advent and is convicted of sin, 'they shall look on Me Whom they have pierced' (Zech.12:10). They will then wholeheartedly turn to Him and be saved, and this is all part of God's New Covenant dealing with Israel (Rom. 11:25-29) so that at last they can be the Divine channel of blessing to the whole world that the Lord always intended they should be.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
when Moses is read,
the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord,
the vail shall be taken away.
Now the Lord is that Spirit:
and where the Spirit of the Lord is,
there is liberty.'
(2 Cor. 3:15-17)
Hi Winnie,
it is Israel who are being referred to here with the words, 'their' and 'it'.
The Old Testament Israelite had his mind 'veiled' like the face of Moses (3:14) and the only way this blinding element could be removed was by coming into saving contact with Christ 'which veil is done away in Christ' (v.14), which is expressed by 'turning to the Lord' (v.16). This turning was vital to the Jew of the New Testament for salvation and will be so for the whole nation when in the future it looks on the Lord Jesus Christ at His second Advent and is convicted of sin, 'they shall look on Me Whom they have pierced' (Zech.12:10). They will then wholeheartedly turn to Him and be saved, and this is all part of God's New Covenant dealing with Israel (Rom. 11:25-29) so that at last they can be the Divine channel of blessing to the whole world that the Lord always intended they should be.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Greetings Wwinnie,
I believe this passage is refering to everyone. First off to those who are Jewish, but also to those who are unsaved. Because when an unbeliever accepts Christ...the veil is lifted from their understanding. They begin to understand the Word and God's ways. Understanding The Word of God takes The Holy Spirit, which is what we get when we make Jesus our Lord.
The whole Bible is written to and for everyone, for God is not a respector of persons. And according to the Word every person who believes in Jesus as Lord, has been engrafted into the same sheepfold (olive tree... Romans 11:17 and Jesus says sheep fold ...Jn 10:16) That's why the Bible says in Christ there is no jew nor greek, slave nor free, male nor female.
Blessings
This is in respect to the difference between the Old Testament (Moses and the Law/Torah) and the apostolic gospel
of the New Testament. The veil (blindness, not seeing the truth, not having full understanding) prevents OT Jews from
embracing with joy Jesus as their Messiah and in receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit [the Book of Acts].
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeks for; but the election has obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see,
and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Romans 11:7-10
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.
Romans 11:25-28
The Holy Spirit was given to priest, prophets and some kings. (before the cross)
Now then this veil is on Everyone until the recieve Christ. This veil prevents an unborn again person from knowing the truth of God's word and the cross.
Blessings
FCJ
2 Corinthians 3:15 -17
Hello again Winnie,
Coming back and reading through the responses you have received, I looked again at the Scripture under consideration; and my mind was arrested by the words of verse 17, 'Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty'; how wonderful that is, isn't it, Winnie ? What a cause of rejoicing in God our Saviour.
However, the words, 'that Spirit' made me look back in the context to see what these words referred back to, and found that it was to verse 8 (being the conclusion of the reasoning of the previous verses concerning the administration of law):-
'How shall not
the administration of the Spirit
be rather glorious'
Joined with the words of verse 17, 'Now the Lord is that Spirit', doesn't that knock your socks off in sheer praise! Especially followed by the words following verse 8:-
' ... For if the administration of condemnation be glory,
much more doth the administration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious
had no glory in this respect,
by reason of the glory that excellently.
For if that which is done away was glorious
much more that which remained is glorious'
(2 Cor.3:9-11)
Oh! Praise God!
With love, in Christ Jesus,
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
'
Hello again Winnie,
Coming back and reading through the responses you have received, I looked again at the Scripture under consideration; and my mind was arrested by the words of verse 17, 'Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty'; how wonderful that is, isn't it, Winnie ? What a cause of rejoicing in God our Saviour.
However, the words, 'that Spirit' made me look back in the context to see what these words referred back to, and found that it was to verse 8 (being the conclusion of the reasoning of the previous verses concerning the administration of law):-
'How shall not
the administration of the Spirit
be rather glorious'
Joined with the words of verse 17, 'Now the Lord is that Spirit', doesn't that knock your socks off in sheer praise! Especially followed by the words following verse 8:-
' ... For if the administration of condemnation be glory,
much more doth the administration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious
had no glory in this respect,
by reason of the glory that excellently.
For if that which is done away was glorious
much more that which remained is glorious'
(2 Cor.3:9-11)
Oh! Praise God!
With love, in Christ Jesus,
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
'
'But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
even as by the Spirit of the Lord.'
(2 Cor. 3:15-18)
Hello again, Winnie,
The scope of this whole passage (2 Cor. 3:6-18) is to show that the Old Covenant, apart from Christ, is like a dead body. He is the spirit, and the Old Covenant is the body. And, 'as the body without the spirit is dead' (James 2:26), so the Old Covenant as contained in the Old Testament is dead without Christ. Compare John 6:63.
'It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit, and they are life.'
(John 6:63)
So, 'spirit', here is used of Christ. It cannot mean the Holy Spirit; for it would be stating a needless truism to say, 'The Spirit is the Spirit'. No: it is 'the Lord' (Christ) who is the spirit (ie., the spirit and life; or the life-spirit, the life-giving spirit) of the Old Testament, as He Himself testified:-
'It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh (ie., the 'letter'), profiteth nothing;
the words that I (even I) speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.'
(John 6:63).
The conclusion which shows us how this affects us now, comes in verses 17 & 18. Spirit is necessary to life; and it quickens and gives life to the Old Covenant, which is a dead letter without it, and it is necessary for 'liberty' as well as 'life'. We, now, are not like the children of Israel who looked on Moses veiled face: but, like Moses himself, we gaze 'with unveiled face' on the glory of Christ.
We are in the position of Moses, who removed the veil when he went in before the presence of the Lord; and, like him, we are changed by the glory on which we gaze. This is the teaching of verse 18.
Praise God!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
even as by the Spirit of the Lord.'
(2 Cor. 3:15-18)
Hello again, Winnie,
The scope of this whole passage (2 Cor. 3:6-18) is to show that the Old Covenant, apart from Christ, is like a dead body. He is the spirit, and the Old Covenant is the body. And, 'as the body without the spirit is dead' (James 2:26), so the Old Covenant as contained in the Old Testament is dead without Christ. Compare John 6:63.
'It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit, and they are life.'
(John 6:63)
So, 'spirit', here is used of Christ. It cannot mean the Holy Spirit; for it would be stating a needless truism to say, 'The Spirit is the Spirit'. No: it is 'the Lord' (Christ) who is the spirit (ie., the spirit and life; or the life-spirit, the life-giving spirit) of the Old Testament, as He Himself testified:-
'It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh (ie., the 'letter'), profiteth nothing;
the words that I (even I) speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.'
(John 6:63).
The conclusion which shows us how this affects us now, comes in verses 17 & 18. Spirit is necessary to life; and it quickens and gives life to the Old Covenant, which is a dead letter without it, and it is necessary for 'liberty' as well as 'life'. We, now, are not like the children of Israel who looked on Moses veiled face: but, like Moses himself, we gaze 'with unveiled face' on the glory of Christ.
We are in the position of Moses, who removed the veil when he went in before the presence of the Lord; and, like him, we are changed by the glory on which we gaze. This is the teaching of verse 18.
Praise God!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
You have received some good answers. My comment will not be any better than what you have already gotten.
I would only say that when we read the 16th verse we see the word "IT".
"It" refers to the heart. When the heart turns to the Lord Jesus, the veil is removed. Mans problem is and has always been heart trouble. He is blinded because of the sin in his life. Sinners love their sin and it becomes a "veil" to belief. When he is willing to turn to Christ from his sin and accept the Lord Jesus as His Saviour, "the veil shall be taken away".