9-11-15 Event

Many people are quick off the mark to attribute this as some sort of Godly judgment, but my very first inclination is to attribute it to Satan, who hates even those he deceives, always with the view to kill them, and, the evil genius he is experiences great glee when the Christians of the world attribute what he does to the God he is trying to unseat.

IMMHO.
 
I see what you are saying Euphemia, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I believe that its pending on the believers theological foundation of weather tragic events are from God or Satan. I believe all events are from God. Why? Because I believe in the utmost sovereignty of God. To explain myself further I believe God is in control of all things, nothing happens without is sovereign hand in it, nothing happens without his knowing meaning if he knows all things then that would mean God allowed it to happen. So the way I see this event is that Satan did it, BUT only because God allowed or gave him permission to do so in order to further his sovereign will and plan. Whatever that may be.
 
Drew24 said:
I see what you are saying Euphemia, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I believe that its pending on the believers theological foundation of weather tragic events are from God or Satan. I believe all events are from God. Why? Because I believe in the utmost sovereignty of God. To explain myself further I believe God is in control of all things, nothing happens without is sovereign hand in it, nothing happens without his knowing meaning if he knows all things then that would mean God allowed it to happen. So the way I see this event is that Satan did it, BUT only because God allowed or gave him permission to do so in order to further his sovereign will and plan. Whatever that may be.
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That is a very accurate view of things. And also often a very hard sell to those who don't think that God should allow tragedy in their lives.
 
Drew24 said:
I see what you are saying Euphemia, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I believe that its pending on the believers theological foundation of weather tragic events are from God or Satan. I believe all events are from God. Why? Because I believe in the utmost sovereignty of God. To explain myself further I believe God is in control of all things, nothing happens without is sovereign hand in it, nothing happens without his knowing meaning if he knows all things then that would mean God allowed it to happen. So the way I see this event is that Satan did it, BUT only because God allowed or gave him permission to do so in order to further his sovereign will and plan. Whatever that may be.
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Drew Greetings,
Then if Gid is in control of everything - then if you ate corn flakes or cookies for lunch it was Gods will for He is in control of everything. If you get angry with some one today it was Gods will for you to be angry gfor he is in control of everything.

Further more satan does not work for God he is self employed and God does not hire him out.
God allows things because He gave control of some things to man and if man does not invite or ask Him to get involved then He does not.

The fall of man released sin and death and curse into this land. It is in full swing today.
God had nothing to do with it then and has nothing to do with it now.
Blessings
Jim
 
Drew24 said:
I see what you are saying Euphemia, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I believe that its pending on the believers theological foundation of weather tragic events are from God or Satan. I believe all events are from God. Why? Because I believe in the utmost sovereignty of God. To explain myself further I believe God is in control of all things, nothing happens without is sovereign hand in it, nothing happens without his knowing meaning if he knows all things then that would mean God allowed it to happen. So the way I see this event is that Satan did it, BUT only because God allowed or gave him permission to do so in order to further his sovereign will and plan. Whatever that may be.
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Not all events are from the hand of God at all. God's sovereignty is limited, for He has given man his own sovereignty.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Drew Greetings,
Then if Gid is in control of everything - then if you ate corn flakes or cookies for lunch it was Gods will for He is in control of everything. If you get angry with some one today it was Gods will for you to be angry gfor he is in control of everything.

Further more satan does not work for God he is self employed and God does not hire him out.
God allows things because He gave control of some things to man and if man does not invite or ask Him to get involved then He does not.

The fall of man released sin and death and curse into this land. It is in full swing today.
God had nothing to do with it then and has nothing to do with it now.
Blessings
Jim
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I think the problem is trying to take one point from Drew and try to applying it to something else.. God in control as some kind of control freak is different *EDITED*.. God allowing something to happen is different.. It we try to imply the second based on the first, then we are going to run into problems!
 
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Euphemia said:
Not all events are from the hand of God at all. God's sovereignty is limited, for He has given man his own sovereignty.
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I think that is the key point here.. God is sovereign.. In certain cases He limits His sovereignty. Why and when He does that is in accordance with His will. Can God stop something like this from happening? Can anyone say God is not able to have stopped this? God is able, but He chose not to stop. That is the only thing being expressed in saying God is in control of everything
 
Ravindran said:
I think the problem is trying to take one point from Drew and try to applying it to something else.. God in control as some kind of control freak is different *EDITED*.. God allowing something to happen is different.. It we try to imply the second based on the first, then we are going to run into problems!
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What point would that be ?
 
Ravindran said:
I think that is the key point here.. God is sovereign.. In certain cases He limits His sovereignty. Why and when He does that is in accordance with His will. Can God stop something like this from happening? Can anyone say God is not able to have stopped this? God is able, but He chose not to stop. That is the only thing being expressed in saying God is in control of everything
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Sin is in this world and it's ways. Is God in control of that ? NO!
Actually Ravindran that is not what is being said when some one claims God is in control of everything. Even with your way it says......well we just never know what God is going to do.

God does not have a covenant with this world and it's ways and the unsaved.
Therefore God is not responsible unto those who are not His yet. God honors His word with all of His name and honors the covenant we have with Him.

It is not that God chose not to stop something bad - man set the curse free in this earth. So it will run it's course. That is out of Gods hands now. It went into being and will stay that way.
Now we who have a covenant with God ( born again ) we have the right to have Him move in our behalf - but - we have to know this other wise we simply just sit around and say what ever happens must be Gods will. Oh poor oh me oh my.

We have authority over all this evil including storms and if you dont know this or know how to see it enforced then you simply get fouled with the fouled.

Look when the giant wave came crashing in down there in that super storm sandy and tore up all those homes - there is one thing I want you to see. There weas a lady there who knew her place in Christ and her covenant with God. She used His word and stood her ground. Now the wave destroyed everything all around her. Not even the stuff in her basement got wet. Her house was fine and her stuff.

Now was she the only believer in this town ? No sir she was not but she knew her Covenant with God. That is the difference between excepting everything as Gods mysterious will and knowing your place in Christ.

God Bless you Ravindran and have a great week
jim
 
'There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.'
 
I agree man has control of some things, BUT only if it is in accordance with the the sovereign will of God. God has a plan for everything. He has a plan for me, for you, for him, for her. Nothing is going to stop that plan. God does not care what our plans are. Why? Because God is about God not about man. We were created to glorify and praise him, and serve him. As Paul said we are SLAVES to Christ. Meaning we are free from the bondage of sin but we become servants of God. I don't want to dive to deep, because this a huge complex issue on Gods Sovereignty. I mean take Job for example everything he had was destroyed. Remember Satan came before God, and God said have you considered my servant Job. And what did Satan say? Of course he praises you and is faithful to you, because you have a HEDGE around him, remove your protection (or give me permission to do things to him) and we will see if he curses you. Or Jesus telling Peter that Satan has ASKED to sift him like wheat, not Satan is going to sift you like wheat sorry my hands are tied. There are just facets of God humans cannot explain. Or where God says all things work for good, for those who believe in me. This issue cannot be logically solved. God is beyond anything our perception can compute. I mean why did God hardened Pharaohs heart? Well so that Gods glory and power could be shown to the world through the devastation and death of the Egyptians. Pharaoh did not have a choice. Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau, if God can't hate? Don't have time to ex
 
Dot have time to explain that one. If before man there was no sin then how did Lucifer have pride? Especially if angels don't have free will. I don't know the answer to that one. My point is we can't just say that God gave control to man, just so we can explain it so it makes logical sense to us. People hate hearing about predestination, but then why in almost every letter from the apostles is there mentioning of to Gods elect chosen by the foreknowledge of God before the foundations of the earth were created? If you accept the theology of predestination then you accept the fact there is no free will,, and that God controls all things. Listen is was only a year ago I believed in free will, all I ask is that you give it a chance wth an open mind, study the scripture intently and just try asking questions and looking for answers. Thank you all for your time, and hearing me out. God bless you all.
 
One last thing. To share something personal. I just came through a short week long trial where my family was at risk of being hurt not killed. And there was nothing I could it was out of my hands. So I prayed and prayed and my wife prayed and prayed. It was horrible, but I said God I know you see what's going on you are in control and your will be done. Praise be to God nothing happened but through it I can't not tell you how sweet and glorious it is to know that our God is in control of all things and he uses the evil and satan hurt us to trust him more and have faith in him more. Now thank you Jesus we are in a season of ministering or blessing. I learned things to my relationship with God is closer. I find my security in him and know all things good or bad are from him to consecrate me to him.
 
Look when the giant wave came crashing in down there in that super storm sandy and tore up all those homes - there is one thing I want you to see. There weas a lady there who knew her place in Christ and her covenant with God. She used His word and stood her ground. Now the wave destroyed everything all around her. Not even the stuff in her basement got wet. Her house was fine and her stuff.

Now was she the only believer in this town ? No sir she was not but she knew her Covenant with God. That is the difference between excepting everything as Gods mysterious will and knowing your place in Christ.

Iwhat about the other Christians who knew there place in Christ, and believed the Covenent? How come everything they had was destroyed in the storm? Did the apostles believe in Gods Covenent? did they know their place in Christ? If yes then why did they die? So why did God allow just one believer to keep everything but the neighbor who had been walking with Jesus for 65 years and had faith of steel lose everything? Yet she is also praising God and thanking Him for his mercy and grace. Is that by random chance? Or did God work his will for each in the situation?
 
Romans 9:15
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”

...referring to:

Exodus 33:19
Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
 
Drew24 said:
Look when the giant wave came crashing in down there in that super storm sandy and tore up all those homes - there is one thing I want you to see. There weas a lady there who knew her place in Christ and her covenant with God. She used His word and stood her ground. Now the wave destroyed everything all around her. Not even the stuff in her basement got wet. Her house was fine and her stuff.

Now was she the only believer in this town ? No sir she was not but she knew her Covenant with God. That is the difference between excepting everything as Gods mysterious will and knowing your place in Christ.

Iwhat about the other Christians who knew there place in Christ, and believed the Covenent? How come everything they had was destroyed in the storm? Did the apostles believe in Gods Covenent? did they know their place in Christ? If yes then why did they die? So why did God allow just one believer to keep everything but the neighbor who had been walking with Jesus for 65 years and had faith of steel lose everything? Yet she is also praising God and thanking Him for his mercy and grace. Is that by random chance? Or did God work his will for each in the situation?
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Being in Christ or going to church for 65 years is not enough.
Far to many believers feel -think - believe that these things areout of their hands and you just have to hope for the best.

God has instructed us and given us examples through out His written word - how to stand and use His word. He backs His word not religious hand me downs.

Look at the boys in the boat with Jesus - Jesus slept and the storm grew - what did they do ? Now remember Jesus has spent all day teaching themabout faith. Well they went to Jesus in fear and panic. They woke Him saying Master dont you care that we are about to perish.
Jesus rebuked the winds and then what ? He rebuked them and got on them - Why would Jesus get on them over this ? Because they not only could have but should have took authority over that storm them selves.

Believing in the covenant between us and God is one thing - but to actually know what it means and the authority behind it is another. People perish from lack of Knowledge. Knowledge is strength.

Blessings
Jim
 
Drew24 said:
I agree man has control of some things, BUT only if it is in accordance with the the sovereign will of God. God has a plan for everything. He has a plan for me, for you, for him, for her. Nothing is going to stop that plan. God does not care what our plans are. Why? Because God is about God not about man. We were created to glorify and praise him, and serve him. As Paul said we are SLAVES to Christ. Meaning we are free from the bondage of sin but we become servants of God. I don't want to dive to deep, because this a huge complex issue on Gods Sovereignty. I mean take Job for example everything he had was destroyed. Remember Satan came before God, and God said have you considered my servant Job. And what did Satan say? Of course he praises you and is faithful to you, because you have a HEDGE around him, remove your protection (or give me permission to do things to him) and we will see if he curses you. Or Jesus telling Peter that Satan has ASKED to sift him like wheat, not Satan is going to sift you like wheat sorry my hands are tied. There are just facets of God humans cannot explain. Or where God says all things work for good, for those who believe in me. This issue cannot be logically solved. God is beyond anything our perception can compute. I mean why did God hardened Pharaohs heart? Well so that Gods glory and power could be shown to the world through the devastation and death of the Egyptians. Pharaoh did not have a choice. Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau, if God can't hate? Don't have time to ex
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Drew you are correct in saying God has a plan for every one of us .
Does this mean all these plans will be carried out or fulfilled ? No it does not.
All of us have the right to say no to any of it...Free will....we can reject His plans andlive our own. God does not force His ways on us.

To truly know what Gods plan for your life is - takes prayer and seeking Him. God will reveal His plan over time or another words prepare you to fulfill it.
The problem here is far to many people get caught up in their ideas and plans and think they are this plan God has for them.

We are all going to stand before the Father and we all will see how we stacked up to His plan for our lives. Again it is up to us to fulfill this Plan of Gods in our lives not God.
 
Euphemia said:
Romans 9:15
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”

...referring to:

Exodus 33:19
Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
Click to expand...
@Drew24
That is all well and good - How ever there is a new covenant made between us and God through Christ. Not only are we a born again people - but we have the Blood of Christ which carries much power and authority. This authority has been given to us. It is up to us to use it or not. We can follow religious beliefs and take bits and peaces of scripture from the OT and try to explain away things - but it wont change a thing or stop these things from being.

People perish from lack of knowledge - knowledge or wisdom is strength.
We are a different people - God has given us His word and authority and placed these things in our Hands. Look I can leave you a shot gun and teach you how to use it and tell you that you can use it to protect your self......Now when trouble comes - starvation knocking on your door - angry critter more hungry then your self tearing down your door.........

You can either use the shot gun and get food or remove the threat of being eaten or you can lay around saying well it must be Gods will for me to be feed for this poor ol animal who is starving - for after all He does feed the little sparows.............

Our enemy the devil would like nothing better then for Born Again Belivers to think the stuff he does as he hides behind the shadows is - Gods will and choice.

Euphemia for give me for jumping in with your post................I borrowed it for example and to use as a picture or example.......
Thank You for posting this my sister.........
God Bless
Jim
 
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