Still looking for the answer to this regarding the angels in v.10. (see post #20)
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ANGELS - A Biblical Study
- Thread starter Major
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Hello crossnote;
This is difficult to articulate in a sentence as a side note.
The context of 1 Corinthians 11:10 is about worship. The worship follows with (the symbol) of a wife in her role (authority) as God's creation (wife) for the husband, followed by the angels, whose role is always present in the worship as ministering spirits in the presence of God.
If we read Major's original thread Post#1, one of important emphasis are the Angel's presence of worship in order and manner, not haphazard.
God bless you, brother.
It looks like the context is about authority (v.3), beyond that, I'm not sure.
It must be noted that the reason Paul wrote that was because of "divisions" in the church. There was disunity and chaos.
He wanted the church to be in the order that God had put in place:.......
Christ is the head of every man, man is the head of woman, and God is the head of Christ.
In times past it was thought that Paul was suggesting that a woman should cover her head because of the angels;.... however, IMHO, Paul actually says that the woman has “authority” or “power” on her head.
This authority refers to the headship God has placed over her, based on the order of creation and illustrating the church’s response to Christ and His order/standards. Paul explains that is the reason the woman naturally has long hair: .....
it is a glory to her, and her hair is given to her as a covering and can serve as an illustration of her role in the matter of headship.
But that is just ME and there are probably some who can give more details or explanations.
How does the joining of two human beings produce a race of evil giants like Goliath (a nephillim)?
I do not believe or accept the idea that a human male and a human female produced the Nephilim.
I actually said........
"based on what I believe the Scripture tell us, the "sons of God" as used in Genesis 6 is the human, Godly line of men who came from Adam through Seth to Enos.
Then...........
"The "Daughters of men" would then be the human line of women who came through the un-Godly line of Cain.
IMHO, it was not possible then or now for an angelic being to have a physical relationship with a human female and reproduce.
Jesus Himself tells us that that is not possible in Matthew 22:30.......
"For in the resurrection they (Humans in Heaven) neither marry, (Have sex) nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." = Asexual!
Large humans have been the product of humans reproduction and have been with us a long time. One does not have to be a large human to be evil.
"Giants" is a relative term and is susceptible to ones imagination. We all tend to exaggerate at times.
The word "Giants" in Genesis 6 can be and has been translated by many as "Well Known".
If those fallen beings are the ones in Genesis 6 called the "Sons of God" that you are referring to, they were not able to have sexual relations with the "Daughters of Men" so as to produce the Nephilim.
Yes, Nephilim can be translated as “the fallen ones.”
It is also true that many Hebrews scholars believe this refers to angels who disobeyed God and took human wives, leading to a race of hybrid beings.
It is also true that just as many other Scholars suggest it simply means mighty warriors or tyrants who had fallen morally.
Just so that we are clear...........Genesis 6 where the word 1st appears =
The NIV keeps “Nephilim.”
The KJV translates it as “giants.”
The Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) uses gigantes, from which we get the English “giants.”
They were also called “mighty men” and “men of renown,” but their fame seems connected more to violence than virtue.
Now.....think with me brother.
If the Flood destroyed all living things except Noah and his family, EIGHT people, (8) how could Nephilim appear again in Numbers 13:33, where the Israelite spies report:
“We saw the Nephilim there… We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”
That passage raises an interesting question........how did the Nephilim somehow survive, or were the spies exaggerating out of fear?
Could it be that the spies may used the word “Nephilim” as a comparison rather than a literal identity, expressing their terror rather than reporting an exact lineage. Or better said, alone, in a strange land, out of FEAR they exaggerated what they saw!
Good morning, Major;
Good read!
I'm being objective in what I'm going to share but in no way am I stirring up a divide. I just want to get everyone's take on this.
Has anyone wondered why the Church gives so much credit to the Hebrew and Greek scholars? There are many anointed Biblical English scholars, theologians that teach a good study.
The Hebrew and Greek scholars teach with credibility, but rarely take responsibility for their follys in the Old and New Testaments, their writings include disagreements with fellow scholars, beside multiple theses on the history of angels.
God bless everyone.
I read that demons are the disembodied spirits of those pre-flood half-breed nephillim, rather than fallen angels. The rationale for this idea is the total lack of any biblical evidence to prove that angels have the power to possess and control human beings.
Do you have a source for that?
Absolutely......
Charles L. Feinberg, Professor of Semitics and Old Testament @ Dallas Theological Seminary.
Manfred E. Kober, The Sons of God of Genesis 6: Demons, Degenerates, or Despots?, p. 15.
Meredith G. Kline, “Divine Kingship and Genesis 6:1-4,”
Westminster Theological Journal, XXIV, Nov. 1961-May 1962, p. 190.
Dr. J. Vernon McGee, Volume #1, "Through The Bible". pg. 37.
Hello brother. I would never post anything to cause a divide and I know you would not either. We are all just having a discussion and there is NO reason for anyone to be disagreeable over things we can not prove Biblically!
I think that we believe, right or wrongly, that the originals are rooted closer to the meaning that they were written to convey.
I do not hesitate to affirm an English Bible as the inerrant word of God.
I was taught, probably just as you were that the famous New Testament scholar A.T. Robertson was correct when he said.....
"The real New Testament is the Greek New Testament. The English is simply a translation of the New Testament, not the actual New Testament. "
Now as for who the "Sons of God" were, I personally do not think that there is a need to explain the existence of demons outside of the fallen angels, and with no clear evidence in Scripture for the spirits of the Nephilim continuing on Earth, there is no solid basis on which to identify the demons with the spirits of the Nephilim. This topic simply cannot be derived explicitly from Scripture, and therefore should not be considered the best explanation of the origin of the demons.
Just my thinking is that we need to be careful not to travel down the road of "Conspiracy theories" when it comes to Bible understanding.
In other words......what we read is what it means. When we read "Sons of God" and try to make it say that there is something sinister or demonic as a fallen angelic being, we are then going down that rabbit hole.
Why cant Sons of God simply mean....MEN who are Gods.
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That opinion supposes that the sons of God were the fallen angels, and that the Nephilim were the hybrid offspring of the union between the fallen angels and human women.
I must tell you that the idea that the demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim comes from the book of Enoch which is "OCCULTIC/WITCHCRAFT and is totally unbiblical.
The presumption is that, as angelic-human hybrids, the spirits of the Nephilim would have been different from the human soul-spirit, having the ability to remain present in this world despite no longer having a physical body which has NO Biblical support any where in it.
That absolutely is the opposite of what Jesus tells us in Matthew 22:30.
Ethiopia disagrees with you on this.
It may be unbiblical by Catholics and Protestants, but not according to other churches.
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