Any here hold to modern sign gifts still operating?

Not asking if the Lord still can go healings and miracles, but if any gifted now to do them as Apostles were?
YES.....GOD heals and GOD does miracles.

NO to any person claiming to do those things.

Mark 16:14-16....
"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

There are absolutely ZERO....NONE Scriptures that say or indicate or suggest that there was to be any apostolic succession after those original men were called and commissioned by Christ.
 
Well of coarse .... doesn't everybody?

"Major"...I know you don't adhere to them.... it was kind of a rub...in a loving way.

Hopefully ...I can explain my position later today....still recovering from an incident about 6 weeks ago where fragments hit my spine...some days are better than others and it's tough to sit up for any length of time....but never a bad day.
 
Well of coarse .... doesn't everybody?

"Major"...I know you don't adhere to them.... it was kind of a rub...in a loving way.

Hopefully ...I can explain my position later today....still recovering from an incident about 6 weeks ago where fragments hit my spine...some days are better than others and it's tough to sit up for any length of time....but never a bad day.
Sad to say, many still hold to sign gifts fully operating!
 
I thought I would start with some clarification regarding 1 Corinthians… in my next post I will provide the reasons they are still in operation…and maybe even provide some of the flawed arguments that are used against the operation of the manifestation.

I know the following is foundational, but it is critical to understand before I delve into my next post.


1Co 12:8-10 lists “what is referred to as the gifts” of the spirit…. BUT are they gifts?????

NO …they are not … not according to the written Word….which is our only standard of truth.

The written Word, which Paul received by the revelation of Jesus Christ Gal 1:12…are the words of Jesus Christ. There is so much reverence to the words Jesus spoke in the gospels in RED, but the words He has given to Paul are to be just as esteemed as if it were Christ speaking them to us….. and words mean things.

Over the years, through the process of translation and transmission there have been words and phrases added that were not in the originals, mostly in effort to enhance scripture and make it more understandable.

The King James Version as well as the NIV and a few other versions have been fairly diligent to keep many of the added word in italics, which is helpful…These words, while they may be helpful in understanding are not God breathed, and sometimes not well supplied………One such section is in 1 Corinthians.
Just one word added by translators in four different areas has significantly changed the foundation of this magnificent subject.

In chapters 12, 13, &14 of I Corinthians the word GIFTS has been added four times …..12:1, as well as 13:2, 14:1 & 14:12. These should be deleted or crossed out in your Bible, as they are not in the original text and not well supplied in these verses.

In the following verses after the word spiritual is used, translators have added the word gifts in 1Co 12:11Co 14:1 and 14:12. The word “spiritual” is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters) IT DOES NOT MEAN GIFTS. …...........In 1Co 13:2 the word gift is just thrown in because they had an extra one hanging around. …..You may as well put the words “peanut butter” in place of “gifts” that is how out of place this word “gifts” is…….get rid of it!

( The word gifts is the Greek word charisma which is used legitimately 5 times in chapter 12… 1Co 12:4, 1Co 12:31, 1Co 12:9 1Co 12:28 1Co 12:30.)


By adding the word GIFTS in the aforementioned verses, it subtly establishes the mental assumption of gifts in our minds for this topic …and it has been extremely effective. People today when they read through these scripture automatically insert the word gifts where it does not belong. They automatically assume that when reading 1Co 12:8-10 they are all gifts…Not so fast….What was the revelation Jesus gave to Paul.


I want to submit a few key verses with a literal translation according to usage. This is just a rendering of the text to give a better understanding...starting in I Cor 12:1.

12:1 A literal translation could be: Now concerning matters belonging to, determined by, influenced by, or proceeding from, the spirit; brethren I would not have you to be uninformed.

12:3 A literal of verse 3, could be: “Because you were led away by dumb idols in the past. I want to declare unto you that no one who is speaking in tongues is denouncing or calling Jesus accursed. And no one is really capable of declaring that Jesus is lord in their life except by way of speaking in tongues, which is the spirit in manifestation.

12:4 A literal understanding of this would be: “Through the choice or option of God, there are gifts given to man.”

Verse 4 does talk about the “diversity of gifts” (charisma) …..of which there are seven given to the “Church of Grace, those of us in the Body of Christ”

5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians Eph 4:11**

**(the 5 gift ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 These are gifts of service on a horizontal level given to those who are fully committed in every aspect to serving Gods people…. )

holy spirit” “the gift” given at new birth…Acts 2:38

gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation of the spirit …1 Cor 12:9.


12: 6
states that, God is the one who energizes (worketh) each operation.


In verse 7 of 1 Corinthians 12 it changes from gifts to manifestation.


12:7
BUT the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal

The word “but” is a conjunction that sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts, but now it’s changed from gifts to manifestation.


What’s the difference between gift and manifestation.

A gift is individually given, and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. A manifestation is evidence, a showing forth of something you already have..... If God had wanted to say “But the Gifts of the spirit is given….” in verse 7 He would have borrowed one from the translators…. but He did not….so why are people using the word “gifts” when the Word of God says manifestation?

The gift we were given was holy spirit, being born again. The manifestation or evidence of the gift is to operate any or all of the 9 manifestation of the spirit.

The word manifestation in the Greek is phanerôsis meaning “to be visible,” “bring to light,” “or open to sight” “to show forth in the sense world”…. What is it that we are to bring to light? ….Verse 7 says the spirit. Verse 7 further goes on to say that it is given to every man (all inclusive) every person (who is born again of God) to profit withal.

With the amazing benefits of speaking in tongues (of which there are at least 12 this should be something that we all do every day in our private prayer life….But that’s not all…. there are 8 other manifestation available to us. But I truly believe it starts with speaking in tongues due to the benefits related to this manifestation.
 

bobinfaith

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Well of coarse .... doesn't everybody?

"Major"...I know you don't adhere to them.... it was kind of a rub...in a loving way.

Hopefully ...I can explain my position later today....still recovering from an incident about 6 weeks ago where fragments hit my spine...some days are better than others and it's tough to sit up for any length of time....but never a bad day.

Hello sandman;

It's 250am in the morning and read your post# 3. I'm praying for you and hope for the Lord's healing but relief from with your spine.

Take it slow,
brother. I'm going to try to get some sleep and would like to reply later today to your post#6.
 
I thought I would start with some clarification regarding 1 Corinthians… in my next post I will provide the reasons they are still in operation…and maybe even provide some of the flawed arguments that are used against the operation of the manifestation.

I know the following is foundational, but it is critical to understand before I delve into my next post.


1Co 12:8-10 lists “what is referred to as the gifts” of the spirit…. BUT are they gifts?????

NO …they are not … not according to the written Word….which is our only standard of truth.

The written Word, which Paul received by the revelation of Jesus Christ Gal 1:12…are the words of Jesus Christ. There is so much reverence to the words Jesus spoke in the gospels in RED, but the words He has given to Paul are to be just as esteemed as if it were Christ speaking them to us….. and words mean things.

Over the years, through the process of translation and transmission there have been words and phrases added that were not in the originals, mostly in effort to enhance scripture and make it more understandable.

The King James Version as well as the NIV and a few other versions have been fairly diligent to keep many of the added word in italics, which is helpful…These words, while they may be helpful in understanding are not God breathed, and sometimes not well supplied………One such section is in 1 Corinthians.
Just one word added by translators in four different areas has significantly changed the foundation of this magnificent subject.

In chapters 12, 13, &14 of I Corinthians the word GIFTS has been added four times …..12:1, as well as 13:2, 14:1 & 14:12. These should be deleted or crossed out in your Bible, as they are not in the original text and not well supplied in these verses.

In the following verses after the word spiritual is used, translators have added the word gifts in 1Co 12:11Co 14:1 and 14:12. The word “spiritual” is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters) IT DOES NOT MEAN GIFTS. …...........In 1Co 13:2 the word gift is just thrown in because they had an extra one hanging around. …..You may as well put the words “peanut butter” in place of “gifts” that is how out of place this word “gifts” is…….get rid of it!

( The word gifts is the Greek word charisma which is used legitimately 5 times in chapter 12… 1Co 12:4, 1Co 12:31, 1Co 12:9 1Co 12:28 1Co 12:30.)


By adding the word GIFTS in the aforementioned verses, it subtly establishes the mental assumption of gifts in our minds for this topic …and it has been extremely effective. People today when they read through these scripture automatically insert the word gifts where it does not belong. They automatically assume that when reading 1Co 12:8-10 they are all gifts…Not so fast….What was the revelation Jesus gave to Paul.


I want to submit a few key verses with a literal translation according to usage. This is just a rendering of the text to give a better understanding...starting in I Cor 12:1.

12:1 A literal translation could be: Now concerning matters belonging to, determined by, influenced by, or proceeding from, the spirit; brethren I would not have you to be uninformed.

12:3 A literal of verse 3, could be: “Because you were led away by dumb idols in the past. I want to declare unto you that no one who is speaking in tongues is denouncing or calling Jesus accursed. And no one is really capable of declaring that Jesus is lord in their life except by way of speaking in tongues, which is the spirit in manifestation.

12:4 A literal understanding of this would be: “Through the choice or option of God, there are gifts given to man.”

Verse 4 does talk about the “diversity of gifts” (charisma) …..of which there are seven given to the “Church of Grace, those of us in the Body of Christ”

5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians Eph 4:11**

**
(the 5 gift ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 These are gifts of service on a horizontal level given to those who are fully committed in every aspect to serving Gods people…. )

holy spirit” “the gift” given at new birth…Acts 2:38

gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation of the spirit …1 Cor 12:9.


12: 6
states that, God is the one who energizes (worketh) each operation.


In verse 7 of 1 Corinthians 12 it changes from gifts to manifestation.


12:7
BUT the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal

The word “but” is a conjunction that sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts, but now it’s changed from gifts to manifestation.


What’s the difference between gift and manifestation.

A gift is individually given, and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. A manifestation is evidence, a showing forth of something you already have..... If God had wanted to say “But the Gifts of the spirit is given….” in verse 7 He would have borrowed one from the translators…. but He did not….so why are people using the word “gifts” when the Word of God says manifestation?

The gift we were given was holy spirit, being born again. The manifestation or evidence of the gift is to operate any or all of the 9 manifestation of the spirit.

The word manifestation in the Greek is phanerôsis meaning “to be visible,” “bring to light,” “or open to sight” “to show forth in the sense world”…. What is it that we are to bring to light? ….Verse 7 says the spirit. Verse 7 further goes on to say that it is given to every man (all inclusive) every person (who is born again of God) to profit withal.

With the amazing benefits of speaking in tongues (of which there are at least 12 this should be something that we all do every day in our private prayer life….But that’s not all…. there are 8 other manifestation available to us. But I truly believe it starts with speaking in tongues due to the benefits related to this manifestation.
Would say that the gifts of tongues were a sign to the jews and confirmed that Jesus was Lord, but that it and rest of the sign gifts have now ceased!
 
God is not out of control. His Word does not need analyzing it needs believing. Analysis usually takes us further away because we are leaning on our understanding, as happened in the garden. I'm not against studying the but it must be within the context of the Word. Remember the apostle Paul had to forget all - to know the Word. I can recall in Biblical Criticism - discerning what belongs and what was 'grafted in', makes the Word subject to my understanding - and that doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't matter now great the mind is - that is all it is - it doesn't touch the eternal. Remember when Satan stepped out of the eternal into the finite (thinking he had a better idea) he was then caught in the realm of 'catch up' and of course he can never attain because he is not a creator.
If we approach God on His terms then it is His doing and not ours...
 

bobinfaith

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
I thought I would start with some clarification regarding 1 Corinthians… in my next post I will provide the reasons they are still in operation…and maybe even provide some of the flawed arguments that are used against the operation of the manifestation.

I know the following is foundational, but it is critical to understand before I delve into my next post.


1Co 12:8-10 lists “what is referred to as the gifts” of the spirit…. BUT are they gifts?????

NO …they are not … not according to the written Word….which is our only standard of truth.

The written Word, which Paul received by the revelation of Jesus Christ Gal 1:12…are the words of Jesus Christ. There is so much reverence to the words Jesus spoke in the gospels in RED, but the words He has given to Paul are to be just as esteemed as if it were Christ speaking them to us….. and words mean things.

Over the years, through the process of translation and transmission there have been words and phrases added that were not in the originals, mostly in effort to enhance scripture and make it more understandable.

The King James Version as well as the NIV and a few other versions have been fairly diligent to keep many of the added word in italics, which is helpful…These words, while they may be helpful in understanding are not God breathed, and sometimes not well supplied………One such section is in 1 Corinthians.
Just one word added by translators in four different areas has significantly changed the foundation of this magnificent subject.

In chapters 12, 13, &14 of I Corinthians the word GIFTS has been added four times …..12:1, as well as 13:2, 14:1 & 14:12. These should be deleted or crossed out in your Bible, as they are not in the original text and not well supplied in these verses.

In the following verses after the word spiritual is used, translators have added the word gifts in 1Co 12:11Co 14:1 and 14:12. The word “spiritual” is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters) IT DOES NOT MEAN GIFTS. …...........In 1Co 13:2 the word gift is just thrown in because they had an extra one hanging around. …..You may as well put the words “peanut butter” in place of “gifts” that is how out of place this word “gifts” is…….get rid of it!

( The word gifts is the Greek word charisma which is used legitimately 5 times in chapter 12… 1Co 12:4, 1Co 12:31, 1Co 12:9 1Co 12:28 1Co 12:30.)


By adding the word GIFTS in the aforementioned verses, it subtly establishes the mental assumption of gifts in our minds for this topic …and it has been extremely effective. People today when they read through these scripture automatically insert the word gifts where it does not belong. They automatically assume that when reading 1Co 12:8-10 they are all gifts…Not so fast….What was the revelation Jesus gave to Paul.


I want to submit a few key verses with a literal translation according to usage. This is just a rendering of the text to give a better understanding...starting in I Cor 12:1.

12:1 A literal translation could be: Now concerning matters belonging to, determined by, influenced by, or proceeding from, the spirit; brethren I would not have you to be uninformed.

12:3 A literal of verse 3, could be: “Because you were led away by dumb idols in the past. I want to declare unto you that no one who is speaking in tongues is denouncing or calling Jesus accursed. And no one is really capable of declaring that Jesus is lord in their life except by way of speaking in tongues, which is the spirit in manifestation.

12:4 A literal understanding of this would be: “Through the choice or option of God, there are gifts given to man.”

Verse 4 does talk about the “diversity of gifts” (charisma) …..of which there are seven given to the “Church of Grace, those of us in the Body of Christ”

5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians Eph 4:11**

**
(the 5 gift ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 These are gifts of service on a horizontal level given to those who are fully committed in every aspect to serving Gods people…. )

holy spirit” “the gift” given at new birth…Acts 2:38

gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation of the spirit …1 Cor 12:9.


12: 6
states that, God is the one who energizes (worketh) each operation.


In verse 7 of 1 Corinthians 12 it changes from gifts to manifestation.


12:7
BUT the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal

The word “but” is a conjunction that sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts, but now it’s changed from gifts to manifestation.


What’s the difference between gift and manifestation.

A gift is individually given, and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. A manifestation is evidence, a showing forth of something you already have..... If God had wanted to say “But the Gifts of the spirit is given….” in verse 7 He would have borrowed one from the translators…. but He did not….so why are people using the word “gifts” when the Word of God says manifestation?

The gift we were given was holy spirit, being born again. The manifestation or evidence of the gift is to operate any or all of the 9 manifestation of the spirit.

The word manifestation in the Greek is phanerôsis meaning “to be visible,” “bring to light,” “or open to sight” “to show forth in the sense world”…. What is it that we are to bring to light? ….Verse 7 says the spirit. Verse 7 further goes on to say that it is given to every man (all inclusive) every person (who is born again of God) to profit withal.

With the amazing benefits of speaking in tongues (of which there are at least 12 this should be something that we all do every day in our private prayer life….But that’s not all…. there are 8 other manifestation available to us. But I truly believe it starts with speaking in tongues due to the benefits related to this manifestation.

Hello sandman;

You wrote, In chapters 12, 13, & 14 of I Corinthians the word GIFTS has been added four times …..12:1, as well as 13:2, 14:1 & 14:12. These should be deleted or crossed out in your Bible, as they are not in the original text and not well supplied in these verses.

In the following verses after the word spiritual is used, translators have added the word gifts in 1Co 12:11Co 14:1 and 14:12. The word “spiritual” is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters) IT DOES NOT MEAN GIFTS.


I would not take gifts out of 1 Corinthians 12:1, 13:2, 14:1 and 14:12. In the context of spiritual gifts these belong to God, were given by God and they are the written Word of God.

We cannot take away what God has manifested, gifts or spiritual gifts. God has given these gifts so that the believer can serve God first, the church, the body of Christ. God gives spiritual gifts to build up believers to do the work of each member of the body while needing the other.

Now, if we're talking about gifts, for example, I can play guitar. This is not a spiritual gift but it can be used to worship and praise God in the church.

I have a spiritual gift called helps, reference 1 Corinthians 12:28. There is a difference. All my life I have been put in situations where I have helped people from ex-cons, druggies, dysfunctional families and very wealthy individuals with messy lives and Christians who live lukewarm lives.

Most of who I was sent to serve, God brought resolve allowing me to direct them toward Christ. I have also failed miserably, was cursed at, blamed for their circumstances, but that did not take away my spiritual gift. Regardless, the failures or results of my spiritual gifts were used for His glory.

When we delete or edit gifts in the Bible is like limiting God and His manifestation, while giving unlimited credit to the Greek or Hebrew definitions, literal translations, verse and understanding which are all man made understandings of the Word of God. I'm still attempting to find in the Bible anything close to Greek and Hebrew definitions of literal, exegesis, hermeneutics, etc as a replacement for the Holy Spirit revealing what God says, for example, His gifts.

Here's a testimony. Many Christians never stepped foot in seminary, Bible college or ministry training, yet God anointed their study and led them to accomplish more than the Bible scholars while developing their people skills. That itself is a gift and follows the ministry of Moses, Joshua, Solomon, Peter, John, many more, and Jesus.

To me these are the modern sign gifts that show God is still moving.

sandman, I feel our interpretation of the gifts differ. You posted some interesting points that may suggest a definition be used other than gift. In the meantime I'll cross reference what you shared that may help me understand.

God bless you, brother.
 

crossnote

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Over the years, through the process of translation and transmission there have been words and phrases added that were not in the originals, mostly in effort to enhance scripture and make it more understandable.
Since most of the rest of your post is based on this premise, I would like to remind us that we don't have 'the originals'...we have only a few early fragments of copies and a number of early and late manuscripts. When early copies are compared to later copies and discrepancies appear between the two it is a subjective call to say whether one set of manuscripts added words or the other set had removed words.
 
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When I was healed (praise God) from my illness, the guy who prayed for me had a huge ministry and there really was hundreds if not thousands of testimonies from nzers who had been healed with a word or touch from him. He went round the whole country with the healing ministry.
He sold all he had and also opened his home for christians to come and fellowship and learn. He used to be a highflying lawyer and property developer. But he gave that all up and everything he offered was at no charge.

He's now gone to glory (as they say) but his second wife carries on ministering to women.


Not all heal, there are other gifts, though healing is one thing that is very much needed. I needed healing because the doctors could do nothing for the illness I had. So I believe it was a miracle, cos I probably wouldn't be alive today or possibly a drugged out zombie with the amount of drugs they had me on.
 

Cosia

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
When I was healed (praise God) from my illness, the guy who prayed for me had a huge ministry and there really was hundreds if not thousands of testimonies from nzers who had been healed with a word or touch from him. He went round the whole country with the healing ministry.
He sold all he had and also opened his home for christians to come and fellowship and learn. He used to be a highflying lawyer and property developer. But he gave that all up and everything he offered was at no charge.

He's now gone to glory (as they say) but his second wife carries on ministering to women.


Not all heal, there are other gifts, though healing is one thing that is very much needed. I needed healing because the doctors could do nothing for the illness I had. So I believe it was a miracle, cos I probably wouldn't be alive today or possibly a drugged out zombie with the amount of drugs they had me on.
Praise God !
Wonderful testimony Lanolin
Thank you for sharing this.
God Bless you.
 
Well of coarse .... doesn't everybody?

"Major"...I know you don't adhere to them.... it was kind of a rub...in a loving way.

Hopefully ...I can explain my position later today....still recovering from an incident about 6 weeks ago where fragments hit my spine...some days are better than others and it's tough to sit up for any length of time....but never a bad day.

God bless you my brother.

I also had spine surgery 2 years ago.

Be well and heal quickely!
 
I thought I would start with some clarification regarding 1 Corinthians… in my next post I will provide the reasons they are still in operation…and maybe even provide some of the flawed arguments that are used against the operation of the manifestation.

I know the following is foundational, but it is critical to understand before I delve into my next post.


1Co 12:8-10 lists “what is referred to as the gifts” of the spirit…. BUT are they gifts?????

NO …they are not … not according to the written Word….which is our only standard of truth.

The written Word, which Paul received by the revelation of Jesus Christ Gal 1:12…are the words of Jesus Christ. There is so much reverence to the words Jesus spoke in the gospels in RED, but the words He has given to Paul are to be just as esteemed as if it were Christ speaking them to us….. and words mean things.

Over the years, through the process of translation and transmission there have been words and phrases added that were not in the originals, mostly in effort to enhance scripture and make it more understandable.

The King James Version as well as the NIV and a few other versions have been fairly diligent to keep many of the added word in italics, which is helpful…These words, while they may be helpful in understanding are not God breathed, and sometimes not well supplied………One such section is in 1 Corinthians.
Just one word added by translators in four different areas has significantly changed the foundation of this magnificent subject.

In chapters 12, 13, &14 of I Corinthians the word GIFTS has been added four times …..12:1, as well as 13:2, 14:1 & 14:12. These should be deleted or crossed out in your Bible, as they are not in the original text and not well supplied in these verses.

In the following verses after the word spiritual is used, translators have added the word gifts in 1Co 12:11Co 14:1 and 14:12. The word “spiritual” is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters) IT DOES NOT MEAN GIFTS. …...........In 1Co 13:2 the word gift is just thrown in because they had an extra one hanging around. …..You may as well put the words “peanut butter” in place of “gifts” that is how out of place this word “gifts” is…….get rid of it!

( The word gifts is the Greek word charisma which is used legitimately 5 times in chapter 12… 1Co 12:4, 1Co 12:31, 1Co 12:9 1Co 12:28 1Co 12:30.)


By adding the word GIFTS in the aforementioned verses, it subtly establishes the mental assumption of gifts in our minds for this topic …and it has been extremely effective. People today when they read through these scripture automatically insert the word gifts where it does not belong. They automatically assume that when reading 1Co 12:8-10 they are all gifts…Not so fast….What was the revelation Jesus gave to Paul.


I want to submit a few key verses with a literal translation according to usage. This is just a rendering of the text to give a better understanding...starting in I Cor 12:1.

12:1 A literal translation could be: Now concerning matters belonging to, determined by, influenced by, or proceeding from, the spirit; brethren I would not have you to be uninformed.

12:3 A literal of verse 3, could be: “Because you were led away by dumb idols in the past. I want to declare unto you that no one who is speaking in tongues is denouncing or calling Jesus accursed. And no one is really capable of declaring that Jesus is lord in their life except by way of speaking in tongues, which is the spirit in manifestation.

12:4 A literal understanding of this would be: “Through the choice or option of God, there are gifts given to man.”

Verse 4 does talk about the “diversity of gifts” (charisma) …..of which there are seven given to the “Church of Grace, those of us in the Body of Christ”

5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians Eph 4:11**

**
(the 5 gift ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 These are gifts of service on a horizontal level given to those who are fully committed in every aspect to serving Gods people…. )

holy spirit” “the gift” given at new birth…Acts 2:38

gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation of the spirit …1 Cor 12:9.


12: 6
states that, God is the one who energizes (worketh) each operation.


In verse 7 of 1 Corinthians 12 it changes from gifts to manifestation.


12:7
BUT the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal

The word “but” is a conjunction that sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts, but now it’s changed from gifts to manifestation.


What’s the difference between gift and manifestation.

A gift is individually given, and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. A manifestation is evidence, a showing forth of something you already have..... If God had wanted to say “But the Gifts of the spirit is given….” in verse 7 He would have borrowed one from the translators…. but He did not….so why are people using the word “gifts” when the Word of God says manifestation?

The gift we were given was holy spirit, being born again. The manifestation or evidence of the gift is to operate any or all of the 9 manifestation of the spirit.

The word manifestation in the Greek is phanerôsis meaning “to be visible,” “bring to light,” “or open to sight” “to show forth in the sense world”…. What is it that we are to bring to light? ….Verse 7 says the spirit. Verse 7 further goes on to say that it is given to every man (all inclusive) every person (who is born again of God) to profit withal.

With the amazing benefits of speaking in tongues (of which there are at least 12 this should be something that we all do every day in our private prayer life….But that’s not all…. there are 8 other manifestation available to us. But I truly believe it starts with speaking in tongues due to the benefits related to this manifestation.
1 Corth 13:8-10........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know yin part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is yin part shall be done away."

The Bible says the apostolic gift of tongues would only last the forty years during the ministries of the apostles. There was no further benefit or need for such a gift after the scriptures were completed. The Pastoral Epistles of Paul contain no mention of them, and he instead emphasized what tongues-speaking churches like the least – plain Bible preaching II Tim 4:1-4.........
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at chis appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

There is no church on earth that even has real tongues being spoken, and none of the churches that think they are speaking in tongues obey Paul’s clear and simple rules for their use.
 
Well of coarse .... doesn't everybody?

"Major"...I know you don't adhere to them.... it was kind of a rub...in a loving way.

Hopefully ...I can explain my position later today....still recovering from an incident about 6 weeks ago where fragments hit my spine...some days are better than others and it's tough to sit up for any length of time....but never a bad day.

It is OK Sandy!

A lot of people do not agree with me about my cuteness!
 
1 Corth 13:8-10........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know yin part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is yin part shall be done away."

The Bible says the apostolic gift of tongues would only last the forty years during the ministries of the apostles. There was no further benefit or need for such a gift after the scriptures were completed. The Pastoral Epistles of Paul contain no mention of them, and he instead emphasized what tongues-speaking churches like the least – plain Bible preaching II Tim 4:1-4.........
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at chis appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

There is no church on earth that even has real tongues being spoken, and none of the churches that think they are speaking in tongues obey Paul’s clear and simple rules for their use.
Tongues and prophecies were during time of the Apostles, to confirm to the Jews Jesus is Messiah and Lord, and that Gentiles were included, and to give forth teaching until canon was completed!
 
Job 15:31 KJV
[31] Let not him that is deceived trust in vanity: for vanity shall be his recompence.
1 Samuel 16:7 -
"The Lord does not look at the things man looks at. A man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."
 
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