Any here hold to modern sign gifts still operating?

Tongues and prophecies were during time of the Apostles, to confirm to the Jews Jesus is Messiah and Lord, and that Gentiles were included, and to give forth teaching until canon was completed!

My experience over the years in talking to people on this subject has shown me that those who have grown up in the Charismatic Pentacostal faith and WANT to speak in tongues will do so no matter what the Scripture say which are shown to them!!!!
 
Simply because the Scriptures say so my friend.

1 Corth. 13:8-9.......
"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."

Since God said "Tongues will cease" then that is exactly what happened.

That being the case then what is being seen today is "faked".

Either that or God lied. Which one do you think is the right answer???

YIKES! Even KNOWLEDGE has passed away!!!! We're all a bunch of walking zombies with no knowledge. (snicker, snort)

This reminds me how careful we must be with our proof texts....

MM
 

Via dolarossa

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Well .....the whole conversation of this Scripture hinges on the phrase........"When the PERFECT comes" then the temporary WILL CEASE.

This is about CESSATIONALISM verses CONTINUATIONISM. Or, does the SIGN Gifts given to the Apostles in Mark 16 also apply to believers today?

IF.....IF we hang our hat on grammar of "ceasED or will cease" then we have to use the same grammar on "When The Perfect COMES"".

Now there are only 3 possible things that are perfect!

1. Jesus Christ- God.
2. Heaven
3. The Bible.

When the Scripture was written, Jesus had already COME. Paul knew that so that point is mute. Even the Jews belived in a God of Creation and Paul knew that as well.

Heaven does not COME! Heaven exists but does not come anywhere. We GO TO Heaven. So that eliminate Heaven as the Perfect Paul had in mind.

That only leaves one option.......The Written WORD of GOD!

When the Bible was completed, it was then the Perfect which came.
I actually didn't know that the bible was named the 'Word of God'.

interesting, you learn something new everyday😊
 
You said............
" question is w/o being insulting my question is what being used the same."

I do not understand what you asked. Any chance you could clarify that????
nahh i ll just let it be i realize your against tongues. personally i do find it a gift of the spirit .but i dont know anything about it..so anything ilke the pro/ cons, would be pure speculation on my part
 
my question was not to get into a debate.

i know many who hold to this scripture. over the years i have many pro /cons on the subject..me personally

i think the gift of tongues is still around. question is w/o being insulting my question is what being used the same.

i will not judge those who use them. i know some very devout people who do . i dont nor have i. i figure if God wanted me he would have me do so. i have been in services where many spoke.

.me i feel this was out of order. i been in services where the room went silent, some one spoke some one else gave the interpterion. was it for me to hear?

i dunno i just let it be . there is alot of jabbering that goes on most likely flesh. but i will not be disrespectful . yes i realize where the southern baptist stand .i respect them to . so my answer is i simply asked
you can read it for your self . understand i am not charismatic. nor do i use tongues . i do believe it as a gift is till around. it is abused like many things in the church. i have set back and watched many teachings took to the extreme . that does Not line up with scripture
 

crossnote

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Tongues and prophecies were during time of the Apostles, to confirm to the Jews Jesus is Messiah and Lord, and that Gentiles were included, and to give forth teaching until canon was completed!
This is something I'm not quite getting. So the Jews in the 1st Century get signs AND the Word, whereas in later centuries Jews and Gentiles did not get signs as a confirmation of the Word but just the Word?
Why were signs used to confirm the Word preached in the first place?
 
This is something I'm not quite getting. So the Jews in the 1st Century get signs AND the Word, whereas in later centuries Jews and Gentiles did not get signs as a confirmation of the Word but just the Word?
Why were signs used to confirm the Word preached in the first place?

Matthew 12:38-39 KJV

38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 16:1 KJV The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

Matthew 24:30 KJV And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

There came a time, even in Jesus's ministry, when He ended the "signs" He would give to them.

So, what has gone unanswered is the PURPOSE people think there would be for any sign today and throughout history. Those who still demand a "sign" (supernatural event), then I would have to say that:

1) Jesus, who raised the dead, still was surrounded by those who doubted, and
2) the caliber of followers who would follow after signs and wonders, they are not those who set their whole hearts to loving God.

Those willing to offer their allegiance on the basis of their seeking sensationalistic demonstrations, such are the same who would fall away easily if and when their appetite for the demonstrations were not whetted enough to keep their interest and devotion.

Mark 8:12 KJV And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

It wearied the Lord back then that men demanded signs, when what He sought is faith, and followers who follow Him on the basis of faith. The Lord clearly placed His priority upon faith rather than trying to gain followers who desire Him only for what they can see in signs.

1 Corinthians 1:22 KJV For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

So, those who today seek after signs, they are not worthy of the Lord when we look at the Lord's reaction to them in the very verses quoted above.

Looking at the crowds who follow after, and support with millions worth of income, those who allegedly operate and control God's power to perform miracles, making merchandise the alleged power of God, I'd dare say those magicians are operating under some "other" power than that of God.

Objections to this observation would only prove that the objector also thinks those guys and gals are more akin to magicians and merchandisers than true men and women of God.

MM
 
It's the reason why there will be no women in heaven...

Revelation 8:1 (KJV) And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

LOL!....LOL!

Dr. J. Vernon MaGee used 1 Corinthians 14:34 to prove his thinking. Chapter 14 is a corrective scripture and its CONTEXT is all about "tongues" and why they are not to be used.

1 Corth. 14:34........
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

Dr. MaGee says that is the women in church actually followed the word of God on tongues......there would be NO tongues spoken at all.

Not all.....but the great majority of the tongue talking that I have observed in services began with the women.
 
Matthew 12:38-39 KJV

38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 16:1 KJV The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

Matthew 24:30 KJV And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

There came a time, even in Jesus's ministry, when He ended the "signs" He would give to them.

So, what has gone unanswered is the PURPOSE people think there would be for any sign today and throughout history. Those who still demand a "sign" (supernatural event), then I would have to say that:

1) Jesus, who raised the dead, still was surrounded by those who doubted, and
2) the caliber of followers who would follow after signs and wonders, they are not those who set their whole hearts to loving God.

Those willing to offer their allegiance on the basis of their seeking sensationalistic demonstrations, such are the same who would fall away easily if and when their appetite for the demonstrations were not whetted enough to keep their interest and devotion.

Mark 8:12 KJV And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

It wearied the Lord back then that men demanded signs, when what He sought is faith, and followers who follow Him on the basis of faith. The Lord clearly placed His priority upon faith rather than trying to gain followers who desire Him only for what they can see in signs.

1 Corinthians 1:22 KJV For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

So, those who today seek after signs, they are not worthy of the Lord when we look at the Lord's reaction to them in the very verses quoted above.

Looking at the crowds who follow after, and support with millions worth of income, those who allegedly operate and control God's power to perform miracles, making merchandise the alleged power of God, I'd dare say those magicians are operating under some "other" power than that of God.

Objections to this observation would only prove that the objector also thinks those guys and gals are more akin to magicians and merchandisers than true men and women of God.

MM

Amen! Well said!

Mark 16:20......
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
 
This is something I'm not quite getting. So the Jews in the 1st Century get signs AND the Word, whereas in later centuries Jews and Gentiles did not get signs as a confirmation of the Word but just the Word?
Why were signs used to confirm the Word preached in the first place?
Mark 16:20..........
“And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
 
nahh i ll just let it be i realize your against tongues. personally i do find it a gift of the spirit .but i dont know anything about it..so anything ilke the pro/ cons, would be pure speculation on my part

It is not that I am against anything my brother. I read 1 Corinthians 13 where it says that "Tongues will cease". I accept that and believe it.

Having come out from the Pentacostal AOG, I have personally seen and been TAUGHT how to speak in tongues. Now IF it is a gift then why does anyone have to be TAUGHT????

Speaking in tongues.....from what I HAVE SEEN and participated in is very easy to FAKE in order to look Christian.

IMPO and I think many, many others will agree with this and that is it is better to take God at His Word tha it is to speak in a gibberish that no one understands and be looking for a miracle or a healing. Simple faith is more pleasing to the Lord than a reliance on a dazzling sensory experience.

John 20:29
“Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed’”.
 
I actually didn't know that the bible was named the 'Word of God'.

interesting, you learn something new everyday😊
When you were in school and you wrote an essay........did you place YOUR name on YOUR production?????

Did that then mean that the production was YOUR WORK?????

We call the Bible God’s Word to give him the same credit.

2 Timothy 3:16..................
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

The words of the Bible, all Scripture, was written down for our benefit and use. It was God-breathed, or inspired, meaning it’s from our Creator, God.
 
Why can't this be in reference of His 2nd Coming, something the Church was waiting for?

Because 1 Corthithians 13:10 says.........
"but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears."

Some translation say......"When the PERFECT comes".

If we think that is the 2nd Coming then why didn't Paul simply say that is my 1st thought
When we read his words about the Rapture do we really think that he did not understand the 2nd Coming????

Second thought is that if we go with the originals then the literal word was....."Completeness" .

That really does not fit the 2nd Coming of Christ.....IMHO.

Then also it would not mean PERFECT either because we know that there will be another rebellion of men AFTER the 2nd Coming and AFTER the 1000 year rule of Christ. THEN will there be PERFECTION.
 
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