Any here hold to modern sign gifts still operating?

YIKES! Even KNOWLEDGE has passed away!!!! We're all a bunch of walking zombies with no knowledge. (snicker, snort)

This reminds me how careful we must be with our proof texts....

MM
Good point!

I would agree with Foy E. Wallace who stated stated it:....................
The miraculous endowments designated SPIRITUAL gifts have FAILED, have CEASED, have VANISHED AWAY and are therefore no longer in force. All such powers were temporary and provisional and cannot now be exercised.Cross Reference
Foy E. Wallace, Jr., A Review of the New Versions (Fort Worth, Texas: Foy E. Wallace, Jr., Publications, 1973), p. 435.
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There is a meaning in such words as "cease ... fail ... vanish away," not merely of continuing no longer, but of being superseded by something else.

As Dr. John W. Russell noted (Compact Commentary on the New Testament (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1964), p. 426.)
"Tongues prophecies, and ... knowledge shall be superseded."Cross

Despite the fact of Russell's taking a dispensational view of this passage, his idea of "superseded" is correct. And what was to supersede the tongues, etc.? It was the inspired writing of the New Testament. Thus, the fact of the appearance of that which was to do the superseding proved the near approach of the time for it to occur. In a sense, this Epistle superseded the tongues of Corinth.
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bcc/1-corinthians-13.html#verse-8
 
But my question was why just the early Church received signs if signs subsequently ceased?

To confirm what the Apostle said to those people.

The very same reason that Jesus did miracles. CONFIRMATION because JEWS demanded a sign!

Now, when the Bible, the Word of God was completed, those signs of confirmtion were no longer required.
 

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Because 1 Corthithians 13:10 says.........
"but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears."

Some translation say......"When the PERFECT comes".

If we think that is the 2nd Coming then why didn't Paul simply say that is my 1st thought
When we read his words about the Rapture do we really think that he did not understand the 2nd Coming????

Second thought is that if we go with the originals then the literal word was....."Completeness" .

That really does not fit the 2nd Coming of Christ.....IMHO.

Then also it would not mean PERFECT either because we know that there will be another rebellion of men AFTER the 2nd Coming and AFTER the 1000 year rule of Christ. THEN will there be PERFECTION.
Ok, I misspoke about 2nd Coming, I meant when we see Him face to face, our knowledge will be complete, now we see through a dark glass…at least that’s the context.
 
Ok, I misspoke about 2nd Coming, I meant when we see Him face to face, our knowledge will be complete, now we see through a dark glass…at least that’s the context.

I understand that thought brother.

But again....that is not something COMING. "When the perfect comes".

When we see Jesus, either at death, or the Rapture....WE WILL BE GOING TO HIM!
 

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To confirm what the Apostle said to those people.

The very same reason that Jesus did miracles. CONFIRMATION because JEWS demanded a sign!

Now, when the Bible, the Word of God was completed, those signs of confirmtion were no longer required.
But those in foreign lands will say ‘so what, you have your beliefs we have ours, what makes your teaching any different than ours?’
 
"Sign" gifts? Hmm. Are they needed, given the numerous testimonies in scripture?

Who needs that sign today? The Jews? To what end? I'm reminded of the magicians who were able to emulate the staff of Moses in the pharaoh's court.

Given that Christ raised the dead before the eyes of many people back then, there were still those who disbelieved, so what signs would be any more convincing than the overwhelming power of the word of God?

Supposing signs were still in operation, what caliber of follower is likely to arise who claim to believe on that basis of miracles observed?

Would such believers follow Christ on a basis that's pleasing before Him?

What are the implications if "sign" gifts are no more?

What are the implications if "sign" gifts are still present with us?

In case I didn't hit upon what's relevant to you, YF, what difference does it make as to if they are still with us or not?

Just some questions to explore.

MM
I hold that the Lord can still do divine healings and miracles, but those are done by Him directly, and for a specific purpose, but none gifted to do such today!
 
Simply because the Scriptures say so my friend.

1 Corth. 13:8-9.......
"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."

Since God said "Tongues will cease" then that is exactly what happened.

That being the case then what is being seen today is "faked".

Either that or God lied. Which one do you think is the right answer???
None of the so called tongues today are even a real language unlearned b y speaker, its pretty much all gibberish!
 
Well .....the whole conversation of this Scripture hinges on the phrase........"When the PERFECT comes" then the temporary WILL CEASE.

This is about CESSATIONALISM verses CONTINUATIONISM. Or, does the SIGN Gifts given to the Apostles in Mark 16 also apply to believers today?

IF.....IF we hang our hat on grammar of "ceasED or will cease" then we have to use the same grammar on "When The Perfect COMES"".

Now there are only 3 possible things that are perfect!

1. Jesus Christ- God.
2. Heaven
3. The Bible.

When the Scripture was written, Jesus had already COME. Paul knew that so that point is mute. Even the Jews belived in a God of Creation and Paul knew that as well.

Heaven does not COME! Heaven exists but does not come anywhere. We GO TO Heaven. So that eliminate Heaven as the Perfect Paul had in mind.

That only leaves one option.......The Written WORD of GOD!

When the Bible was completed, it was then the Perfect which came.
My main concerns with tongues are that what is said today to be such are not real languages, but mainly gibberish, and that they in no wise mean the person has received a second act of grace 'Holy baptism"
 
My experience over the years in talking to people on this subject has shown me that those who have grown up in the Charismatic Pentacostal faith and WANT to speak in tongues will do so no matter what the Scripture say which are shown to them!!!!
I was in AOG circles a decade, a teaching elder, and never accepted that they were the sign of the so called "baptism in the Holy Ghost!"
 
This is something I'm not quite getting. So the Jews in the 1st Century get signs AND the Word, whereas in later centuries Jews and Gentiles did not get signs as a confirmation of the Word but just the Word?
Why were signs used to confirm the Word preached in the first place?
The sign gifts were unique to the Apostles, as they confirmed to jews Gentiles were now saved by same Messiah, that the Apostles were legit, and that Jesus is lord, and we now have the even more sure word of the scriptures!
 

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The sign gifts were unique to the Apostles, as they confirmed to jews Gentiles were now saved by same Messiah, that the Apostles were legit, and that Jesus is lord, and we now have the even more sure word of the scriptures!
So today an Aborigine who never heard the Gospel, will never get a confirmation (say by a missionary) while those during the Apostolic Age did receive signs as confirmation.
It seems like some had a little extra something in the way of confirmation signs.
 
So today an Aborigine who never heard the Gospel, will never get a confirmation (say by a missionary) while those during the Apostolic Age did receive signs as confirmation.
It seems like some had a little extra something in the way of confirmation signs.
The Holy Spirit confirms to Him thru the scriptures!
 
So why was a confirmational sign needed in the 1st Century. in the first place?
(I'm not trying to be confrontational, but these have been question I have had since first hearing the cessationists points.
To prove to the Jews Jesus was the Messiah and Lord, and that gentiles were now included!
 
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