Apologetics Involves Studying Other Writings (Yawn)

Musicmaster

Musicmaster

This is the more boring part of any engagement of apologetics, but it does have some interesting aspects to it, such as these gross inconsistencies in the religious writings of other religions that even their apologists cannot explain with any measure of reason or continuity:

Quran-2:29: It is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heaven and made them into seven firmaments (Skies)….
Quran- 79:27-30: Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built ? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth.

Which is it? They can't have it both ways.

Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?
Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Ummmmm....? If we dare put it all together, 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

Quran-22:47: A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
Quran-32:5: To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousand years of your reckoning
Quran-70:4: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years.

They have that, then they have this...:eek:

Quran-18:86: Till, when he (the traveler Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…
Quran- 18:90: Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

Their sun sets and rises into and up from a muddy spring? :confused:

"Abzur Ghifari (ra) narrated: one day Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) asked me, “Abzar do you know after setting where does the Sun go?” I replied, I do not know, only Allah’s apostle could say better. Then the Prophet (SA) replied, “After setting, the Sun remains prostrated under Allah’s Aro’sh and waits for Allah’s command for rising again in the East. Day will come when sun will not get permission to rise again and Qeyamot will fall upon earth”."

Not very scientific, but certainly mystically consistent with the ignorance of those days...and not very informed from an alleged deity.

Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
Quran-31:10: He hath created the heavens (Skies) without supports (pillars) that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm Mountains/Hills, so that it quake not with you; and He hath dispersed…
Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky ( heavens ) as roof (canopy) well guarded…
Quran-2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

So, the Quran teaches a flat earth it seems, even though the earth is known to be a sphere, surrounded entirely by the vacuum of space.

Quran-23:14: Then fashioned We the drop (semen) a CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD then fashioned We the clot a little lump (fetus), fashioned We the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators.
Quran-75:38: Then he becomes a CLOT; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned…
Quran-96:2: Created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood

This clearly is in conflict with the Genesis account. The Greeks are where the idea came from that semen mixed with the woman's blood clot forms people.

I could go on and on and on, but suffice it to say and to show how important study is when it comes to apologetics.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
This is the more boring part of any engagement of apologetics, but it does have some interesting aspects to it, such as these gross inconsistencies in the religious writings of other religions that even their apologists cannot explain with any measure of reason or continuity:

Quran-2:29: It is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heaven and made them into seven firmaments (Skies)….
Quran- 79:27-30: Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built ? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth.

Which is it? They can't have it both ways.

Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?
Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Ummmmm....? If we dare put it all together, 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

Quran-22:47: A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
Quran-32:5: To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousand years of your reckoning
Quran-70:4: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years.

They have that, then they have this...:eek:

Quran-18:86: Till, when he (the traveler Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…
Quran- 18:90: Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

Their sun sets and rises into and up from a muddy spring? :confused:

"Abzur Ghifari (ra) narrated: one day Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) asked me, “Abzar do you know after setting where does the Sun go?” I replied, I do not know, only Allah’s apostle could say better. Then the Prophet (SA) replied, “After setting, the Sun remains prostrated under Allah’s Aro’sh and waits for Allah’s command for rising again in the East. Day will come when sun will not get permission to rise again and Qeyamot will fall upon earth”."

Not very scientific, but certainly mystically consistent with the ignorance of those days...and not very informed from an alleged deity.

Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
Quran-31:10: He hath created the heavens (Skies) without supports (pillars) that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm Mountains/Hills, so that it quake not with you; and He hath dispersed…
Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky ( heavens ) as roof (canopy) well guarded…
Quran-2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

So, the Quran teaches a flat earth it seems, even though the earth is known to be a sphere, surrounded entirely by the vacuum of space.

Quran-23:14: Then fashioned We the drop (semen) a CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD then fashioned We the clot a little lump (fetus), fashioned We the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators.
Quran-75:38: Then he becomes a CLOT; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned…
Quran-96:2: Created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood

This clearly is in conflict with the Genesis account. The Greeks are where the idea came from that semen mixed with the woman's blood clot forms people.

I could go on and on and on, but suffice it to say and to show how important study is when it comes to apologetics.

MM
Click to expand...

Funny you would post this.

I have a copy of the Quran right here in my personal library. Along with the Pearl of Wisdom, and the Book of Mormon and the NEW World Translation....the greatest of all translations ( I am kidding)!

I have used all of them and more than just them over the years to make points and show how utterly ridiculous they are when compared to the Word of God.

It has always been my position to know what your enemy thinks before you attack him.

Joshua 10:19
"but do not stay there yourselves; pursue your enemies and attack them in the rear. Do not allow them to enter their cities, for the Lord your God has delivered them into your hand.”
 
Siloam said:
When I was discussing God, sin & redemption with a Muslim co-worker, he stated "The truth of the Quran lies not in what it states, but in what it reveals".

Which is their way of saying that it means whatever the imam says it means. My friend was unconcerned about inconsistencies.
Click to expand...

Not surprising. What you encountered is an evidence for what I have been told about many times by those who try to evangelize muslims...they must receive dreams and visions from the Lord before they will ever even consider turning to the Lord. The depth of deception they are under is considerably deeper than most other religions.

We're up against a most cunning adversary who manipulates others in ways we can't see. The difference is with the One whom we serve, who is Lord over that adversary. Our prayers and assaults against the enemy strongholds and the very gates of Hell are the reason we must be removed from this earth for the enemy's "man of sin" to come to power. I enjoyed just last night some of Chuck Missler's series on Revelation, and how we (represented as the 24 elders is his thinking) will be in eternity before the scroll with the seals is handed over to the Lamb.

So, there are some muslims who have and are receiving dreams and visions from the Lord, and who will experience changes in their allegiances, and be more receptive to the Gospel message.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
This is the more boring part of any engagement of apologetics, but it does have some interesting aspects to it, such as these gross inconsistencies in the religious writings of other religions that even their apologists cannot explain with any measure of reason or continuity:

Quran-2:29: It is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heaven and made them into seven firmaments (Skies)….
Quran- 79:27-30: Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built ? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth.

Which is it? They can't have it both ways.

Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?
Quran- 41:10: He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Ummmmm....? If we dare put it all together, 2 (for earth) + 4 (for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

Quran-22:47: A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
Quran-32:5: To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousand years of your reckoning
Quran-70:4: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years.

They have that, then they have this...:eek:

Quran-18:86: Till, when he (the traveler Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…
Quran- 18:90: Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

Their sun sets and rises into and up from a muddy spring? :confused:

"Abzur Ghifari (ra) narrated: one day Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) asked me, “Abzar do you know after setting where does the Sun go?” I replied, I do not know, only Allah’s apostle could say better. Then the Prophet (SA) replied, “After setting, the Sun remains prostrated under Allah’s Aro’sh and waits for Allah’s command for rising again in the East. Day will come when sun will not get permission to rise again and Qeyamot will fall upon earth”."

Not very scientific, but certainly mystically consistent with the ignorance of those days...and not very informed from an alleged deity.

Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
Quran-31:10: He hath created the heavens (Skies) without supports (pillars) that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm Mountains/Hills, so that it quake not with you; and He hath dispersed…
Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky ( heavens ) as roof (canopy) well guarded…
Quran-2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

So, the Quran teaches a flat earth it seems, even though the earth is known to be a sphere, surrounded entirely by the vacuum of space.

Quran-23:14: Then fashioned We the drop (semen) a CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD then fashioned We the clot a little lump (fetus), fashioned We the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators.
Quran-75:38: Then he becomes a CLOT; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned…
Quran-96:2: Created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood

This clearly is in conflict with the Genesis account. The Greeks are where the idea came from that semen mixed with the woman's blood clot forms people.

I could go on and on and on, but suffice it to say and to show how important study is when it comes to apologetics.

MM
Click to expand...

Hello Musicmaster;

I feel it is good that you posted this thread so that our brothers and sisters in Christ will get a basic eye-opener of the Quran as well as the teachings of other religions that deny Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

Back in the 90s I spoke with my pastor and told him I was curious about Islam and was going to watch a two hour video movie on Islam. In the movie when God appeared, the audience only saw the back of His head according to Muslim movie standards.

But in Christian movies Jesus is always TRANSPARENT face to face. It's amazing how the one and only TRUE God, omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence is willing to be transparent to an unworthy like me who believes!

I also have the Quran translated by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan. I compared it to the Quran you posted and both are word for word with those inconsistencies. I have stickies all over this book that I still question today.

The Quran has long had historical, ethical, logical and scientific contradictions and flaws. The Bible has always remained consistent and True to the curious and believer.

My former pastor was aware that I was curious and I feel he appreciated me letting him know and prayed for me.

Like I shared earlier, MM, I feel it wise that you posted this thread to give all Christians an eye-opener what other false teachings are planting and leading others away from the Christ.

God bless you, brother.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Musicmaster;

I feel it is good that you posted this thread so that our brothers and sisters in Christ will get a basic eye-opener of the Quran as well as the teachings of other religions that deny Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

Back in the 90s I spoke with my pastor and told him I was curious about Islam and was going to watch a two hour video movie on Islam. In the movie when God appeared, the audience only saw the back of His head according to Muslim movie standards.

But in Christian movies Jesus is always TRANSPARENT face to face. It's amazing how the one and only TRUE God, omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence is willing to be transparent to an unworthy like me who believes!

I also have the Quran translated by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan. I compared it to the Quran you posted and both are word for word with those inconsistencies. I have stickies all over this book that I still question today.

The Quran has long had historical, ethical, logical and scientific contradictions and flaws. The Bible has always remained consistent and True to the curious and believer.

My former pastor was aware that I was curious and I feel he appreciated me letting him know and prayed for me.

Like I shared earlier, MM, I feel it wise that you posted this thread to give all Christians an eye-opener what other false teachings are planting and leading others away from the Christ.

God bless you, brother.
Click to expand...

Greetings, brother.

Unto the Lord I give the praise that He enabled me to delve into such topics, and to post for the benefit of others.

For the benefit of all, being an apologist starts with one basic gift the Lord gives to all who ask:

1 Thessalonians 5:19-22
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Those are sage instructions, each one possessing a great lesson and strong leg upon which to stand firm.

Praise unto the Great AMEN.

MM
 
IMHO the establishment of Islam by Satan served two purposes. First, it acts as an innoculation against the Gospel in its beliefs. Second, it serves as a vehicle to support Arab imperialism because adherents from other cultures must eventually conform to Arab morals, manners, laws, costumes, and language in practicing their religion.
 
When I engage in discussions with members of other religions I usually take inspiration from Paul at Mars Hill (Acts 17)

Paul was brought to Areopagus (Mars Hill) by the local philosophers who delighted in hearing about new things to debate.

Paul took the existance of an alter built to honor "AN UNKNOWN GOD" as a starting point to preach the gospel.

In a similar way, I listen to what is important to the one to whom I wish to give witness.

Thus I listned to Yuseph B's discussion of actualy sighting the cresent moon to begin (and end) Ramadan. (as well as such things as buying a car or home when Islam appearantly forbids either the charging of paying interest).

I talked with Parveen G. about Islamic prayer times etc (and about Christian Prayer and the Holy Spirit).

I talked with Bishara K. about how missionaries to his birth city (somewhere in india) would go back to a larger city at night and stay at a western style hotel rather than stay with the people they were there to serve.

These discussions afforded me with the opportunity to talk bout various aspects of Christ and His ministry and how my life relates.

Although none of these persons were Islamic scholars, and their knowledge of formal Islam may not be much better than the average church goer who spends little time in the Bible, knows of doctrine, I did note some things in common with each other that may not be appearant.

Talk concerning the Holy Spirit and the diety of Jesus confuses them and sounds to them as polytheism. Although I may give explanations that satisfy Christians it still is monstrous to them.

The big issue in my estimation is their view of sin (and its consequences). Islam does not seem to see sins as being outward indications of inner nature. Instead sins are the actions themselves, and being upright consists of not doing the things (reguardless of the state of the inner heart) and living according to their pillars of faith. The concept of a debt from sin that must be paid is askew from their view.

In a related manner, there also doesn't seem to be any concept of redemption other than becomming muslem, praying their prayer in Arabic expressing their belief in Allah, the Quran and Mohamad as the supreme prophet.

The point is that if you try to keep your plans out of the way and engage them on what's important to them, the HS can open your mouth with words that speak to them,

As Paul at Mars Hill, we should be ready to engage so that the Spirit has an oportunity to speak to the other. His response is not our task.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top