How about it? Do you have YOUR critical thinking cap on today?
Are You A Critical Thinker Who Also Knows Your Rights?
- Thread starter Musicmaster
- Start date
How about this? Have you ever had someone demand your ID as if you we are in a police state like Nazi Germany?
I'm using this video material to kick some critical thinking skills into action.
Even in Stop-n-ID states like mine, they STILL must have an articulable crime for which they reasonably suspect you have, are or will commit BEFORE you are lawfully required to hand over ID, or to give name and date of birth. We all have a Fourth Amendment right to privacy, even when it comes to cops. If they have reasonable suspicion, then they will arrest you anyway, and THEN you must provide ID. Besides, if they had reasonable suspicion, you would be in cuffs before they ever take the time and effort to acquire your identity.
Some have argued, "Well, if you haven't done anything wrong, then you shouldn't have a problem identifying yourself to cops."
Critical thinking says...where that line of reasoning may be true, our rights as citizens covered by the U.S. Constitution that these same cops have sworn an oath to uphold and protect ABOVE AND BEYOND enforcing any other laws and statutes of the state, county and/or city, THAT is the test of your right-thinking in an ability to think more clearly about any and all situations you may find yourself entrenched.
The same goes for doctrine. When some dude or woman in a man's suit says to you something like, "Jesus died spiritually in Hell for those three days. He was tortured and humiliated by demons those three days while His body was in that tomb..."
(rolling eyes to the ceiling) As with anything else, if you do not seek to daily educate yourself on the truth of what is verifiable, you will more easily fall victim to just about anything...even things that are a violation of your own privacy. There are, after all, a small number of cops who are perverts, and will use your private information to show up at your door and...well, it's been done before, even cops stalking someone they had acquired ID from for no lawful reason.
The key, however, is to hone and sharpen your critical thinking skills:
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
See? ALL things...not most, not some, but ALL things.
MM
I'm using this video material to kick some critical thinking skills into action.
Even in Stop-n-ID states like mine, they STILL must have an articulable crime for which they reasonably suspect you have, are or will commit BEFORE you are lawfully required to hand over ID, or to give name and date of birth. We all have a Fourth Amendment right to privacy, even when it comes to cops. If they have reasonable suspicion, then they will arrest you anyway, and THEN you must provide ID. Besides, if they had reasonable suspicion, you would be in cuffs before they ever take the time and effort to acquire your identity.
Some have argued, "Well, if you haven't done anything wrong, then you shouldn't have a problem identifying yourself to cops."
Critical thinking says...where that line of reasoning may be true, our rights as citizens covered by the U.S. Constitution that these same cops have sworn an oath to uphold and protect ABOVE AND BEYOND enforcing any other laws and statutes of the state, county and/or city, THAT is the test of your right-thinking in an ability to think more clearly about any and all situations you may find yourself entrenched.
The same goes for doctrine. When some dude or woman in a man's suit says to you something like, "Jesus died spiritually in Hell for those three days. He was tortured and humiliated by demons those three days while His body was in that tomb..."
(rolling eyes to the ceiling) As with anything else, if you do not seek to daily educate yourself on the truth of what is verifiable, you will more easily fall victim to just about anything...even things that are a violation of your own privacy. There are, after all, a small number of cops who are perverts, and will use your private information to show up at your door and...well, it's been done before, even cops stalking someone they had acquired ID from for no lawful reason.
The key, however, is to hone and sharpen your critical thinking skills:
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
See? ALL things...not most, not some, but ALL things.
MM
Hello Musicmaster;
I never had to speak to a police officer the way he confronted the man in the video, nor did I need to record or video an officer who approached me, no matter what. I would like to share my experience when law enforcement approached me and how I interacted with them.
I have been confronted by the authorities several times at different times in my life, in San Diego (population of 2 million,) San Francisco Bay Area (population of 7 million,) the police and soldiers during Martial law in Manila, Philippines, Belize and Guatemala, Central America, and Cherryvale, South Carolina.
Each time when an officer in the United States stopped his vehicle and approached me, he asked to see my ID card. I chose to comply with him/her and gave my ID or driver's license at his request. After the officer checked my background, they explained why.
When we were in the Philippines during Martial law my friend's vehicle was stopped outside Manila airport by a soldier, armed with a rifle. The whole time he wasn't friendly while questioning my friends, his eyes were on me. My eyes were locked on him (only because he had a rifle) but I could sense he could see I was friendly and after speaking to my host friends he let us go.
In the Philippine province where we stayed the local police knew I was from out of town and one day approached me in the street. They didn't ask for my ID but did question who I was. I gave them a friendly reply and they were friendly and wished me a good time while visiting.
While on a missionary trip in Belize I was driving to the place we were working, a group of police on the road were doing check stops. When we pulled up the officer asked for my driver's license and when I complied he sensed that I was polite, and from the United States. He thanked me and we drove off.
While in Guatemala we were going through the visa checkpoint and the soldier with his rifle (Guatemala and Honduras just ended a war) looked very intense. As I passed him I said hello and he was surprised that someone would greet him. He seemed to relax and returned a friendly hello to me.
In Cherryvale (Sumter County) South Carolina a police officer pulled up and approached me while I was walking. He asked for my ID and explained that I was walking on the wrong side of the street. He gave me a written warning (I feel he was trying to fill his quotas for the month.)
I said, ok. He thanked me and left.
I have spoken to our local police in Daly City, population of about 110,000. Law enforcement is going through a tough time in these United States, and I told one officer, a young Christian man, that I feel because of these times, additional training may be needed. He agreed.
There have been other times in my life that an authority has approached me.
Romans 13:1-5, 1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
Matthew 5:9, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
I asked my friend, the young police officer if I were abused by the authorities, he provided me the proper measures should I need to file a grievance and the police superior will respond on my behalf.
I feel I know my civil rights and I choose to support our law enforcement, and will respect the "the badge." I find that by respecting the badge and being quick to cooperate with them has always been a positive experience for me.
I'm sorry that many people have experienced an authority not proficient in their job but we also have to remember the countless citizens who don't respect society or human life, that the police have to contend with during these tough times.
God bless you, MM, and thank you for sharing this topic.
I never had to speak to a police officer the way he confronted the man in the video, nor did I need to record or video an officer who approached me, no matter what. I would like to share my experience when law enforcement approached me and how I interacted with them.
I have been confronted by the authorities several times at different times in my life, in San Diego (population of 2 million,) San Francisco Bay Area (population of 7 million,) the police and soldiers during Martial law in Manila, Philippines, Belize and Guatemala, Central America, and Cherryvale, South Carolina.
Each time when an officer in the United States stopped his vehicle and approached me, he asked to see my ID card. I chose to comply with him/her and gave my ID or driver's license at his request. After the officer checked my background, they explained why.
When we were in the Philippines during Martial law my friend's vehicle was stopped outside Manila airport by a soldier, armed with a rifle. The whole time he wasn't friendly while questioning my friends, his eyes were on me. My eyes were locked on him (only because he had a rifle) but I could sense he could see I was friendly and after speaking to my host friends he let us go.
In the Philippine province where we stayed the local police knew I was from out of town and one day approached me in the street. They didn't ask for my ID but did question who I was. I gave them a friendly reply and they were friendly and wished me a good time while visiting.
While on a missionary trip in Belize I was driving to the place we were working, a group of police on the road were doing check stops. When we pulled up the officer asked for my driver's license and when I complied he sensed that I was polite, and from the United States. He thanked me and we drove off.
While in Guatemala we were going through the visa checkpoint and the soldier with his rifle (Guatemala and Honduras just ended a war) looked very intense. As I passed him I said hello and he was surprised that someone would greet him. He seemed to relax and returned a friendly hello to me.
In Cherryvale (Sumter County) South Carolina a police officer pulled up and approached me while I was walking. He asked for my ID and explained that I was walking on the wrong side of the street. He gave me a written warning (I feel he was trying to fill his quotas for the month.)
I said, ok. He thanked me and left.
I have spoken to our local police in Daly City, population of about 110,000. Law enforcement is going through a tough time in these United States, and I told one officer, a young Christian man, that I feel because of these times, additional training may be needed. He agreed.
There have been other times in my life that an authority has approached me.
Romans 13:1-5, 1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
Matthew 5:9, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
I asked my friend, the young police officer if I were abused by the authorities, he provided me the proper measures should I need to file a grievance and the police superior will respond on my behalf.
I feel I know my civil rights and I choose to support our law enforcement, and will respect the "the badge." I find that by respecting the badge and being quick to cooperate with them has always been a positive experience for me.
I'm sorry that many people have experienced an authority not proficient in their job but we also have to remember the countless citizens who don't respect society or human life, that the police have to contend with during these tough times.
God bless you, MM, and thank you for sharing this topic.
I fully agree with obeying governing authorities. What we see happening in America, however, is law enforcement officers, who are NOT governing authorities, stepping outside the bounds of their lawful authority when they do such things as demand ID from us what is not their lawful authority to demand of any citizen when there is no articulable crime. The Law does not require that we ID outside of an actual charge for a crime. Failure to ID is only unlawful IF one has been lawfully arrested from an articulable crime. Otherwise, we are willingly feeding the monster of a police state that is not currently the law of the land as established by the governing authorities. Many officers will use a commanding voice to intimidate citizens into giving to them the ID they want, and become even more demanding if you dare to stand up for your rights. This is how they are trained....intimidation of those who dare deny them what they want, whether it be a lawful command or not. Many departments have been sued, some for millions, for their civil rights violations.
This is a multi-faceted issue. Law enforcement in America has earned the mistrust of the public by way of the courts having ruled that it's lawful for police to lie to citizens, but citizens dare not lie to law enforcement. It used to be illegal for law enforcement to lie to the public, but now are encouraged to lie through their teeth to the public in the name of law enforcement and image. They have blown their integrity on the basis of legalized lying. Are there good cops out there. Sure. Are there bad ones. You bet.
What's interesting in many of the videos I have watched through the years is that they will demand ID so that they can make sure you aren't breaking the law. (????) What? How does my ID prove anything about what I am doing at the moment? This goes hand in hand with critical thinking. When we are not willing to stand up for our rights in the face of unlawful commands, then we are bound to lose them. It's a balancing act of power. Compliance to the Law is what God has commanded of us, not compliance with what is unlawful. THAT is what I meant when addressing the need for us all to make ourselves familiar with what the law actually is.
Compliance isn't always a good thing, especially when confronted by tyranny. The apostles stood up against the tyranny of the ruling body of their day when they told those tyrants to judge for themselves whether they should obey them, or obey God. Our laws were put into place by those whom God ordained as governing authorities, and when the enforcers go outside what those governing authorities empowered them to exercise, and we don't stand up to that, then we deserve none of the freedoms we have.
that is the power of critical thinking.
1) God said...
2) Governing authorities said...
3) Law enforcement said...
When #3 violates #2, then stick with #2.
When #When #2 violates #1, then stick with #1.
Critical thinking isn't about being a renegade, it's about seeing things as they are, and strengthening the weaknesses that need to be reinforced in environments where they have been eroded.
MM
This is a multi-faceted issue. Law enforcement in America has earned the mistrust of the public by way of the courts having ruled that it's lawful for police to lie to citizens, but citizens dare not lie to law enforcement. It used to be illegal for law enforcement to lie to the public, but now are encouraged to lie through their teeth to the public in the name of law enforcement and image. They have blown their integrity on the basis of legalized lying. Are there good cops out there. Sure. Are there bad ones. You bet.
What's interesting in many of the videos I have watched through the years is that they will demand ID so that they can make sure you aren't breaking the law. (????) What? How does my ID prove anything about what I am doing at the moment? This goes hand in hand with critical thinking. When we are not willing to stand up for our rights in the face of unlawful commands, then we are bound to lose them. It's a balancing act of power. Compliance to the Law is what God has commanded of us, not compliance with what is unlawful. THAT is what I meant when addressing the need for us all to make ourselves familiar with what the law actually is.
Compliance isn't always a good thing, especially when confronted by tyranny. The apostles stood up against the tyranny of the ruling body of their day when they told those tyrants to judge for themselves whether they should obey them, or obey God. Our laws were put into place by those whom God ordained as governing authorities, and when the enforcers go outside what those governing authorities empowered them to exercise, and we don't stand up to that, then we deserve none of the freedoms we have.
that is the power of critical thinking.
1) God said...
2) Governing authorities said...
3) Law enforcement said...
When #3 violates #2, then stick with #2.
When #When #2 violates #1, then stick with #1.
Critical thinking isn't about being a renegade, it's about seeing things as they are, and strengthening the weaknesses that need to be reinforced in environments where they have been eroded.
MM
NOPE!
I was only stopped twice in my life. The 1st was when a sheriff pulled me over to inspect my 1957 Chevy 2 door Bel Air.
It said it looked great and sounded great and wanted to know if I would like to sell it.
Second was when my 15 year old daughter was having an appendix attack. I WAS speeding and High way Petrol pulled me over.
I got out, said YES SIR and NO SIR and when the officer heard my child screaming, he told me to get in the car and he lead us to the hospital at 100 miles an hour and sat with us in the ER.
I understand some have had bad experiences with the police but I am not one of them.
....yet....
There are bad cops just as there are bad doctors, and preachers and lawyers. Evil knows no profession.
From what I have seen, it is amazing that the police are as restrained as they are. There is not enough money in the world to pay me to put up with the police have to go through.
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