Biblically correct is not always spiritually correct! Part 2

[machew]

Biblically correct is not always spiritually correct! Part 2

Please read over Part 1 (my previous topic) before reading this one!

Ok, so you've read what I posted in part 1 and are probably itching to know what I meant in the title of this topic, so here goes:

We will start by reading out of Acts 16:6-10(NASB)

6They passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia;

7and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;

8and passing by Mysia, they came down to Troas.

9A vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing and appealing to him, and saying, "Come over to Macedonia and help us."

10When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.
​

At first glance there is nothing extremely striking about what happened, Paul obeyed the Holy Spirit and people got saved. But, we need to look at something here. Paul and his companions planned to go into Asia and Bithynia to preach the gospel. Why? Because it is what Jesus commanded His disciples to do.

Mark 16:15(NASB)

15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
​

Was Paul's desire to go into Asia and Bithynia biblically correct? Of Course! Jesus said "Go into all the world". Last time I checked Asia and Bithynia are both included in "all the world". Was Paul's desire to go into Asia and Bithynia what the Holy Spirit wanted them to do? Clearly Acts 16 shows us that the answer to this question is no. So from this you have to conclude, that you can be biblically correct and think you are in the center of God's will for your life or a certain situation and not be.

So being biblically correct does not necessarily mean you are Spiritually correct(doing what the Holy Spirit wants). But being Spiritually correct is always biblical. Paul warns us about this in Romans 8:6(AMP)

6Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [a]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
​

So how does part 1 relate to part 2? Part 1 touches on "discerning" through human reasoning, something that Romans 8:6 clearly warns against. They are both related in this way, that those who use their own reasoning and are not spiritually minded will always react to error by committing another error.

I've always found this challenging. It emphasizes the necessary intimate relationship you need with God and is definitely worth meditating on.

 

[Bassmasa]

I disagree with you. In a loving way, of course.

Part 1 touches on "discerning" through human reasoning, something that Romans 8:6 clearly warns against. They are both related in this way, that those who use their own reasoning and are not spiritually minded will always react to error by committing another error.

I don't think this is true at all. Our reasoning is one of the many unique gifts God has given to us. The AMP translation you have is, I think, not correct at all. Let's compare that to the ESV:

AMP
6Now the mind of the flesh is death. But the mind of the Spirit is life and peace.

ESV
6For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

In the ESV, "the mind" is neither good nor bad, it's amoral. How we apply, however, is completely different. The AMP translation seems to make the distinction between two totally different minds (the mind of the flesh and the mind of the Spirit). I think that's completely wrong. The ESV makes it clear that we have one mind ("the mind"), but we have the option to "set it". Clearly, we are to yield ourselves to the Spirit, not our flesh, "set" it on the things above, not below. The previous verse makes that even more clear:

Romans 8:5
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

Again, not a distinction of minds, but how they're applied.

Our minds are powerful, powerful things, but they are in no way bad things. Here's some other references that show quite clearly that they can absolutely be used for the Glory of God:

Matthew 22:37
Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

We are to use our minds to love God.

Romans 7:25
Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

In the chapter before your original reference, Paul says that He is a "slave to God's law" in his mind, certainly a good thing.

Probably my favorite reference, Romans 12:2:

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

We are to allow Christ to renew our minds through His Spirit...what an experience!

In 1 Cor 14:15, Paul teaches that using our minds is an honor to God, not simply checking them at the door:

So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

So from this you have to conclude, that you can be biblically correct and think you are in the center of God's will for your life or a certain situation and not be.

That's a false conclusion. Scripture is Truth, it is immutable and does not change. It does not apply to some situations and not others. God's will is not 2 doors before us; one leads to happiness and the other leads to damnation. If we are walking in Truth daily, yet also living by the Spirit, we are living in His will. Certainly the Holy Spirit directs our steps and urges us many times, but He will NEVER, EVER, EVER contradict scripture. If we rely solely on what we believe to be His promptings, we will be subject to deception when our "feelings" are incorrect. We must have a grounded knowledge IN OUR MINDS of scripture in addition to the sensitivity of the Spirit...it takes both.

 

[ModeratorTeam]

A friendly reminder from the Moderator Team :
Please be considerate of each other views . Thanks and God Bless

Common courtesy
Rule 2.1 Common courtesy and civil dialogue is expected from all participants. Common courtesy is a generally understood concept and too broad to fully define here. In short, if you have doubt on whether you should say something, DON'T!

Rule 2.2 If someone disagrees with you do not immediately jump to the conclusion that they are not truly saved just because they disagree, there are differences of opinion in translating Biblical doctrine.

 

[Dusty]

The Bible is the inspired Word of God .

John 3:21
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

John 3:33
The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

 

[machew]

From the looks of it, it seems people may have misinterpreted what I am saying.

I am not saying that the Bible isn't the infallible inspired word of God. It most assuredly is and I study what it says daily because of the life it bring into my life through the Holy Spirit.

What I am saying is that much of what God wants to do in our life is more specific than what the Bible says. This requires an intimate relationship with God. God will never contradict what is in the Bible, but may require us to go further into a more specific command as shown in Paul's example.

Additionally, the Holy Spirit will often do something that is not anywhere in our paradigm because our understanding of the Bible is limited. Anyone who thinks that they understand the Bible fully, or really any single verse in the Bible fully is deceived.

A good example that highlights this is when you reread a verse months later and it speaks something deeper to you. One verse can continue speaking to you your entire life. Full comprehension of the Bible has not been achieved.

Therefore, assuming something is not the Holy Spirit because it violates our understanding of the Bible is not necessarily correct. The Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict what the Bible says, but God is more than happy to contradict our understanding of what it says.

Bassmasa: Sorry for the misunderstanding. It was not my intention to implicate that the mind is good or bad. I agree with you that the mind in and in itself is good. God created the mind. So I actually agree with everything you said, with the exception of your analysis of my conclusions

Either way, thanks for the reply!

 

[Adstar]

Please read over Part 1 (my previous topic) before reading this one!

Ok, so you've read what I posted in part 1 and are probably itching to know what I meant in the title of this topic, so here goes:

We will start by reading out of Acts 16:6-10(NASB)

6They passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia;

7and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;

8and passing by Mysia, they came down to Troas.

9A vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing and appealing to him, and saying, "Come over to Macedonia and help us."

10When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.
​

At first glance there is nothing extremely striking about what happened, Paul obeyed the Holy Spirit and people got saved. But, we need to look at something here. Paul and his companions planned to go into Asia and Bithynia to preach the gospel. Why? Because it is what Jesus commanded His disciples to do.

Mark 16:15(NASB)

15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
​

Was Paul's desire to go into Asia and Bithynia biblically correct? Of Course! Jesus said "Go into all the world". Last time I checked Asia and Bithynia are both included in "all the world". Was Paul's desire to go into Asia and Bithynia what the Holy Spirit wanted them to do? Clearly Acts 16 shows us that the answer to this question is no. So from this you have to conclude, that you can be biblically correct and think you are in the center of God's will for your life or a certain situation and not be.

So being biblically correct does not necessarily mean you are Spiritually correct(doing what the Holy Spirit wants).

I disagree. The call of Jesus was a general call to His followers to go out into the world to give the Word of God. The Holy Spirit did not deliver a counter command to Christians not to preach the Word in Asia. The Spirit's direction was specificaly to Paul at that time, and the Spirit was not saying "Paul you must never preach in Asia" So both are spiritualy and Biblicaly correct.

To give the Message of Jesus to all the world. And to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in doing this. Once again the message of the Spirit to Paul was not in conflict with the Message of Jesus. Jesus and the Spirit are one.

But being Spiritually correct is always biblical. Paul warns us about this in Romans 8:6(AMP)

6Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [a]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].​

Why not quote the NASB here? Why the amp? I look at it and see to much being added to the scriptures. If all this above is scripture then no brackets are needed.

So how does part 1 relate to part 2? Part 1 touches on "discerning" through human reasoning, something that Romans 8:6 clearly warns against. They are both related in this way, that those who use their own reasoning and are not spiritually minded will always react to error by committing another error.

And are the bracketed rightings injected into the AMP not just that. "human reasoning".


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

The Bible is the inspired Word of God .

John 3:21
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

John 3:33
The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Yes indeed


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Boanerges(Inactive)]

The Bible is the true Word of God and thus flawless. The human mind is always in error unless it is in direct submission to the moving of the Spirit of God. The only error that exists is in the fleshly un-renewed mind of the believer.
That is not to say that Paul was in error. His will and desire simply did not line up with God's will for that particular moment so he simply yielded to the Lord's will.

 

[Dusty]

The Bible is the true Word of God and thus flawless. The human mind is always in error unless it is in direct submission to the moving of the Spirit of God. The only error that exists is in the fleshly un-renewed mind of the believer.
That is not to say that Paul was in error. His will and desire simply did not line up with God's will for that particular moment so he simply yielded to the Lord's will.

Amen my son .

 

[Bassmasa]

What I am saying is that much of what God wants to do in our life is more specific than what the Bible says. This requires an intimate relationship with God.

Amen! There's a massive difference in the knowledge of scriptures and how to apply it to our lives. Head and heart knowledge are vastly different things.

A good example that highlights this is when you reread a verse months later and it speaks something deeper to you. One verse can continue speaking to you your entire life. Full comprehension of the Bible has not been achieved.

I love when that happens. The little hidden gems of revelation from scripture can send tingles up my spine. Reading a book of the Bible and re-reading it later is exhilirating, this recently happened to me with the Book of Romans (which is partly why I was so passionate in my response).

Additionally, the Holy Spirit will often do something that is not anywhere in our paradigm because our understanding of the Bible is limited.
....
Therefore, assuming something is not the Holy Spirit because it violates our understanding of the Bible is not necessarily correct.

I think we need to be very, very cautious with this part, though. Based on your conclusion, this opens the door to all sorts of promptings, actions, and feelings that may or may not be Spirit-led. If we accept this viewpoint, than many situations can be based on our own incorrect feelings (or fleshly desires) and excused as "Well, maybe the Holy Spirit wants me to do xyz and I just can't confirm that in scripture yet."

I don't disagree with you completely as the Spirit can move as He wishes and I never want to say "He can't do" something, but I think it's fair to offer caution that our feelings and our heart can often seem like the Spirit, when in fact they're not. I would feel comfortable saying that this is a very unlikely scenario as God knows our maturity in Him and is not a God of confusion; I think it would be exceedingly rare for His Spirit to prompt us in a manner that He knows we are not "fully convinced in our own minds" of.

 

[machew]

Boanerges: I totally agree.
Adstar:

The call of Jesus was a general call to His followers to go out into the world to give the Word of God. The Holy Spirit did not deliver a counter command to Christians not to preach the Word in Asia. The Spirit's direction was specificaly to Paul at that time, and the Spirit was not saying "Paul you must never preach in Asia" So both are spiritualy and Biblicaly correct.

To give the Message of Jesus to all the world. And to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in doing this. Once again the message of the Spirit to Paul was not in conflict with the Message of Jesus. Jesus and the Spirit are one.

I agree with you. Lots of people seem to think that I disagree with this for some reason.

Also I am not sure what everyone's beef is with the Amplified Bible. It expands on words that are unclear in the english language to be closer to the original translation, or to other places in the Bible where the same word is used. That's what the brackets are.

WordSeeker09:

"Biblically correct" and "spiritually true" are the exact same thing.

This is true without a human bias in the equation. Unfortunately all humans are biased. The only way to be biblically correct is with the Holy Spirit.

To be trully Biblically correct, is to be trully spiritually true.

Agreed.

The Bible is the true Word of God and thus flawless. The human mind is always in error unless it is in direct submission to the moving of the Spirit of God. The only error that exists is in the fleshly un-renewed mind of the believer.
That is not to say that Paul was in error. His will and desire simply did not line up with God's will for that particular moment so he simply yielded to the Lord's will.

Agreed.

I like having the input of others. It helps clarify and helps me communicate things better in the future.

Thanks everyone!

 

[ILOVEUSA911]

Sometimes, because I'm new to the Word of God...this all gets so confusing for me. I feel that I may never truly understand it and I want to really bad. I'm reading it every day. I'm trying to study it every day and then there are threads like this one that make me think to myself that I'm not intelligent enough to get this. Personally I think that's satan's doing, as he doesn't want me to understand it and I rebuke him in Jesus' name. I pray that one day I can understand it all. I'm so confused right now.

Blessings, Cheri

 

[machew]

Bassmasa:

I think we need to be very, very cautious with this part, though. Based on your conclusion, this opens the door to all sorts of promptings, actions, and feelings that may or may not be Spirit-led. If we accept this viewpoint, than many situations can be based on our own incorrect feelings (or fleshly desires) and excused as "Well, maybe the Holy Spirit wants me to do xyz and I just can't confirm that in scripture yet."

Yep I am well aware of the implications. I am always open for correction and believe in surrounding myself with other believers to keep me accountable and disciple me; but I choose not to fear deception. As I stated in part 1 of this, fear except the fear of God is not from God. And discernment and discerning of spirits is not the same thing as fearing the devil's deception.

I realized that as I was reading your response, that this whole thing needs to be in the context of being surrounded by mature believers to keep you accountable and to disciple you. Thanks!

 

[machew]

ILOVEUSA911: If you have a relationship with Jesus, you have no reason to worry. He will show you and help you understand what the Bible is saying through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dusty]

From the looks of it, it seems people may have misinterpreted what I am saying.

I am not saying that the Bible isn't the infallible inspired word of God. It most assuredly is and I study what it says daily because of the life it bring into my life through the Holy Spirit.

Amen to that . As we all should be doing in our daily walk with the Lord . How can we have a relationship if it is one sided .? God wants our heart and we must be willing to commune daily by reading and praying and the most important facet is listening to what the Holy Spirit has to say.

What I am saying is that much of what God wants to do in our life is more specific than what the Bible says. This requires an intimate relationship with God. God will never contradict what is in the Bible, but may require us to go further into a more specific command as shown in Paul's example.

The Holy Spirit is our teacher and a lot of times there are things that we might be unwilling to do as we see in so many Bible persons . Just to think of one would be Jonah . It's when we listen to the flesh instead of listening to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. But we are all human and we do act in humanistic ways but we also are forgiven and can repent knowing that our God is a loving God who forgives and forgets.

Additionally, the Holy Spirit will often do something that is not anywhere in our paradigm because our understanding of the Bible is limited. Anyone who thinks that they understand the Bible fully, or really any single verse in the Bible fully is deceived.

And that is why we have so many divisions in the church because of different translations. And we must test the spirits and not be drawn in by every tickle your fancy pastor who comes along . Read and compare for ourselves .

A good example that highlights this is when you reread a verse months later and it speaks something deeper to you. One verse can continue speaking to you your entire life. Full comprehension of the Bible has not been achieved.

That is why it is the Living Word because each time we come back we get something different . That is the awesome part. The Bible is the true living God speaking to us .

Therefore, assuming something is not the Holy Spirit because it violates our understanding of the Bible is not necessarily correct. The Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict what the Bible says, but God is more than happy to contradict our understanding of what it says.

I am not so sure , I understand this statement . If it is the Holy Spirit that has given me or the person the revelation of a certain passage , how can we say that it is not from God ?. God would never contradict .

Bassmasa: Sorry for the misunderstanding. It was not my intention to implicate that the mind is good or bad. I agree with you that the mind in and in itself is good. God created the mind. So I actually agree with everything you said, with the exception of your analysis of my conclusions

Either way, thanks for the reply!

Thanks for this study and God Bless.

 

[ILOVEUSA911]

ILOVEUSA911: If you have a relationship with Jesus, you have no reason to worry. He will show you and help you understand what the Bible is saying through the Holy Spirit.

I truly believe that machew. Satan wants to confuse us, especially those new to the Word. But one thing I do understand is as long as you have the Lord as your Savior and ask the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you, it doesn't matter one bit what satan wants. I'm not worried. I just get confused when the debates get deep, but as I study and grow with the Lord, through the Holy Spirit, I am sure that confusion will be less and less frequent. I am striving for that day.

Blessings, Cheri

 

[Jeanann]

Wordseeker rightly says "a correct understanding of God's Word in the Bible is equal to correct spiritual truth.

Thus, I quote below two correct statements from the Word of God.l


Matt. 27:5. Judas departed and went and hanged himself
Luke 10:37 Jesus said "Go and do thou likewise"


No Bible Student, nor I would imagine the vast majority of readers of the Word of God would link these two sayings and suggest that Jesus suggested we should emulate Judas.

They are an extreme example of quoting Scripture out of context. They are also an example of using Scripture without first engaging brain.

The Scriptures are indeed the "inspired word of God" as Dusty says, but they must be handled with reverence and the harmony of the word of God must always be taken into account. God does not contradict Himself.

When the Lord told his disciples to preach the word as they went about in the world those words contained a promise "I am with you always". He is with us even when we make an error of judgement, ready to bring us back into the right way. He is with us when we fall, ready to lift us up again.

When we treat the Word with the reverence and honesty it deserves it will never lead us astray.

 

[Ride4theSon]

Drink Ye All, of it.

Drink Ye, All of it.

They are an extreme example of quoting Scripture out of context. They are also an example of using Scripture without first engaging brain.

Yep,.... where do you place the comma in a language that had no comma's?

Ya gotta use the brains God gave ya!

 

[Dusty]

And the wisdom and the common sense .

 

[Jeanann]

Drink Ye All, of it.

Drink Ye, All of it.



Yep,.... where do you place the comma in a language that had no comma's?

Ya gotta use the brains God gave ya!

Yep, and in a language which is only written in CAPITALLETTERSWITHOUTANYSPACES. (Smile)