Church of the Wholly Unnecessary

I hate to pick on this topic once again, but the accumulation of decades of experience, input from others, and observations of articles, books, documentaries, and other discerned realities, I've come to some preliminary conclusions...although simplistic sounding when taken in isolation...lend credence to the title of this thread.

The following video is interesting, but demonstrates the unwillingness of even someone like Doug Wilson to carry this topic to its logical and truthful conclusion:


There are two main reasons the institutional gathering scene is in decline, as I see it, and deemed unnecessary by more and more people with the passing of time:

1) Far too many organizations convey the idea that everyone is just fine the way they are, and
2) The historic and traditional relinquishing of the men in the institutions having given up their birthright to function as the Church.

To point #2, I will clarify by saying that the brotherhood within the ranks of the men in a gathering has relinquished that brotherhood, and thus replaced by silence...in the name of what is perceived as "order," the modern day god within that holds the mass of believers in the sway of a mere audience rather than an interactive, vibrant, thriving family that actually functions actively in each others lives, and thus fulfill the mutual edification called for within scripture. They have historically chosen to hire their responsibilities out to a professional clergy class in the place of functioning as a living body.

Many an intellectual through the decades have wrestled with this phenomenon, and settled on the idea that making it more institutional, or to change the "flavor" of things a bit in order to spice it up, are the right answers...rather than to consider that maybe, just maybe, scripture betrays a more dynamic model for the gathering than all their man-made constructs.

Granted: Paradigms locked into the psyche of most is never an easy beast to overcome, and so many will reject this, but the numbers continue to decline, and will decline dramatically when the institutions are forced to bow their knee to the State.

MM
 
Hello Musicmaster;

I totally agree with Doug Wilson. He said everything that defines Ecclesia, or the Church.

I also agree with your points 1 and 2 about Church being on the decline. I also point the decline to the Shepherd who does not follow the purpose and example in Acts 1:13 and throughout the Biblical teaching. They were either not trained or evolved their ministry to their own agenda. This may sound sharp but lets be honest, it's true and this happens both ways.

We've had this discussion many times at CFS and the members who respectfully justify their reasons for not partaking in the gathering as Pastor Wilson was sharing has led me to a disagreement but an understanding of those who have expressed their objective position regarding the assembly of believers.

So what can the believer do who lives by the Church gathering? Every opportunity I get I will discuss this with anyone and pray for them.

I hear the excuses from youth, young and middle age Christian believers and their objectives regarding the Ecclesia. God still sees the hearts of everyone so does this mean He will change Church just to accommodate the believer? Absolutely not!

God bless you, MM, and I hope this will stimulate an important and constructive discussion.
 
not sure why you carry the banner anti church. it seem church attendance has soured you. Granted not all Churches are in the right standings some have left their first love some are dead. i dont want to pick a debate over this. i and many others are trying to build a church the right way.
there will never be a perfect Church but we are to strive to enter in at the strait gate. i just find it sad the way you feel about the local assembly
 
about Church being on the decline.
the reason of decline is because the hunger and thirst is no longer there. Mathew 24:12 because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold . it takes a want to and a desire and just to be point blank with many not all . its just not there. might i add this wax cold is not over night but a gradual process
 
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the reason of decline is because the hunger and thirst is no longer there. Mathew 24:12 because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold . it takes a want to and a desire and just to be point blank with many not all . its just not there

Hello forgiven;

Since I stepped down from the last Church I pastored, the new pastor has been there for a year now and has gotten established with the local pastors in the community, the CSBC (California Southern Baptist Conference) and our local Baptist Association.

My wife and I felt God calling us to join a Church that is going through the "renew program" where the BA adopts them while they get revitalized. The Church membership has dwindled and they haven't had a pastor for 2 years. I've preached there off and on since May last year.

One of the members was in his 90s and passed away last October 2022. Because of the consistent Ecclesia, we bonded and developed a wonderful fellowship until his passing. His daughter, 42, who had been a member since she was an infant was grateful for the support from her Church family.

It wasn't about us but we stayed focused on God's Church. If we hadn't gathered weekly then we would not have developed the relationship we had with the gentleman, if only for a short time.

The membership at our new Church has mixed ages but the one thing I noticed and blesses me is they gather week after week. The pulpit supply (weekly preachers) are anointed and my wife and I are getting fed weekly.

I'm sure you can relate, forgiven.

God bless
you, brother.
 
Hello forgiven;

Since I stepped down from the last Church I pastored, the new pastor has been there for a year now and has gotten established with the local pastors in the community, the CSBC (California Southern Baptist Conference) and our local Baptist Association.

My wife and I felt God calling us to join a Church that is going through the "renew program" where the BA adopts them while they get revitalized. The Church membership has dwindled and they haven't had a pastor for 2 years. I've preached there off and on since May last year.

One of the members was in his 90s and passed away last October 2022. Because of the consistent Ecclesia, we bonded and developed a wonderful fellowship until his passing. His daughter, 42, who had been a member since she was an infant was grateful for the support from her Church family.

It wasn't about us but we stayed focused on God's Church. If we hadn't gathered weekly then we would not have developed the relationship we had with the gentleman, if only for a short time.

The membership at our new Church has mixed ages but the one thing I noticed and blesses me is they gather week after week. The pulpit supply (weekly preachers) are anointed and my wife and I are getting fed weekly.

I'm sure you can relate, forgiven.

God bless
you, brother.
i can relate i been listening to a southern baptist minister.. that helps replant revitalize churches . he makes sense one thing he stressed never apologize for the size of your Church. this sunday we had a young couple visit. we talked after Church. in preaching i asked question if anyone besides me had ask God to fix something.. ME . he acknowledged they both seemed to fit in. it was a breath fresh air. so this sunday Lord lead i will preach on building . since sunday i have has communication with the couple

they reached out to me about coming out of the john3:16 recovery.. that i can relate to from my past . here is a video you might enjoy
 
Hello Musicmaster;

I totally agree with Doug Wilson. He said everything that defines Ecclesia, or the Church.

Greetings, brother.

Well, not everything, but he did identify what it is to a great extent.

I also agree with your points 1 and 2 about Church being on the decline. I also point the decline to the Shepherd who does not follow the purpose and example in Acts 1:13 and throughout the Biblical teaching. They were either not trained or evolved their ministry to their own agenda. This may sound sharp but lets be honest, it's true and this happens both ways.

Indeed many have forgotten this:

John 10:11, 14
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. ...
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.

When men see themselves as shepherds, they have failed to understand that there is only ONE shepherd over his own flock that is the Church. David was not a shepherd among other shepherds. He alone killed the wild beasts that sought to kill and take his sheep.

Men who serve the TRUE function of shepherding, they are the elders of biblical stature.

Men who are merely voted as elders by way of their popularity by a populace who doesn't even know the word of God well enough to share the Gospel effectively, they are voting in men who are not elders of biblical stature.

We've had this discussion many times at CFS and the members who respectfully justify their reasons for not partaking in the gathering as Pastor Wilson was sharing has led me to a disagreement but an understanding of those who have expressed their objective position regarding the assembly of believers.

Well, at least some of them expressed why they are not a part of the institutional model. Forsaking the gathering with other believers entirely is what Paul addressed as wrong. We need each other. What we see happening is a response to needs that go unfulfilled within the institutional model. We cannot fellowship, and thus give and receive mutual edification, as is commanded while looking at the backs of each other's heads.

Granted, there are many who are content with that, but there's also a growing number of people who are fed up with that lack.

So what can the believer do who lives by the Church gathering?

The Church gathering is one where Christ alone is in the limelight of fellowship, not hirelings to stand as proxies to orchestrate a flow of events that relegate all others to silence, except when cued to sing or responsively speak. That form has become so deeply ingrained that the vast majority just don't understand anything different whereby they actually become functional in one another's lives.

Elders of biblical stature should encourage the congregation to edify one another in more than just small groups. The main gathering is where mutual edification can be wonderful beyond one's wildest dreams. I have seen it, and experienced it firsthand. Therein is why I call the status quo the loss of a mighty birthright.

Every opportunity I get I will discuss this with anyone and pray for them.

Amen for that. Taking it to the Lord is the only way to know where true elders will ever know what they should do to serve the One who should be in control, Who alone is the Shepherd.

I hear the excuses from youth, young and middle age Christian believers and their objectives regarding the Ecclesia. God still sees the hearts of everyone so does this mean He will change Church just to accommodate the believer? Absolutely not!

God bless you, MM, and I hope this will stimulate an important and constructive discussion.

Amen.

There is always room for good teaching, but the historic paradigm of snuffing out mutual edification in order to uphold the god of "order" is a false god and a false dichotomy within the main gathering of believers.

MM
 
Hello Musicmaster;

This was one of the better threads though we have discussed this before. I enjoyed reading through your objectives of this topic as I shared mine.

I'm curious to know, how would you reconcile Church of the Wholly Unnecessary?

God bless you, brother.
 
Hello Musicmaster;

This was one of the better threads though we have discussed this before. I enjoyed reading through your objectives of this topic as I shared mine.

I'm curious to know, how would you reconcile Church of the Wholly Unnecessary?

God bless you, brother.

Ah. Good question.

The term "unnecessary" is aimed at those who believe the gathering of believers to be unnecessary. As lone stars, they basically become members of what I would call "The Church of the Wholly Unnecessary" members.

MM
 
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