Clear-cut Mystery

[netchaplain]

“For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the Church” (Eph 5:30-32).

The special mystery committed to the apostle Paul is the mystery of the Church as the Body and Bride of Christ. Why, it may be asked, was this kept secret? Because it is a heavenly thing, the subject of God’s heavenly counsels; whereas the purpose of the Old Testament prophecies is to make known His earthly counsels. This is of great importance as showing how completely the Church lies outside the world (and outside of Israel—NC). It has a different origin, it is revealed at a different time, it cherishes a different hope, it belongs to a different sphere.

Instead of inheriting the Old Testament promises and fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies, it forms the most absolute contrast with them that the mind can conceive. So different are they that the two cannot exist together (the non-Christian Jews and the Christians—NC). While God’s purposes about the earth were being unfolded, the mystery of the Church was hidden (nobody but Paul and the Lord Jesus knew about the Church—NC). When the mystery of the Church was unfolded, the purposes about the earth were suspended (e.g. how there will be a new earth, and the Jews who believe in God will be its earthly representative for God—NC).

The Church is associated with Christ in heaven; Israel is associated with Him on earth. The Church knows Him in His sufferings and patience; Israel will know Him in His exaltation and power. The Church rejoices in Him as the Bride in her Bridegroom; Israel will rejoice in Him as a nation in her Sovereign (people of God but not children of God—NC). The Church looks for Him to take her to heaven; Israel looks for Him to establish her on the earth. Such is our blessed lot, such our heavenly portion, in contrast with even the most favored of the earthly people. Alas, that hearts will fall short of this wondrous position (being earthly dwellers instead of heavenly hosts—NC).

However we may slight or neglect it (fail to know the difference between the Church and Israel and their destinies—NC), the apostle did not. Earnest as he was in seeking souls, full as he was in setting forth the simple truth of grace to the sinner, this magnificent subject of the “mystery of Christ“ (which was the mystery of Him being the Bridegroom—NC) was never absent from his thoughts or heart. If he prayed for the establishment of the saints, it was “according to the mystery” (Rom 16:25). If he would have them “knit together in love, and into all riches of the full assurance of understanding,” it is “to the acknowledgement of the mystery” (Col 2:2). If he would have the real character of the truth committed to him understood by others, it is that God had by “revelation made known unto me the mystery” (Eph 3:3).

This mystery is the Church, as the Body and Bride of the Lord Jesus Christ, already united with Him by the Holy Spirit sent down to dwell in the Body on earth, and awaiting the time when this blessed oneness will be publicly displayed: “When Christ, who is our Life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory” (Col 3:4). Surely if our hearts were more in tune with the mind of the Father and with the affections of the Lord Jesus, this wondrous theme would fill us with never-ceasing worship and praise (esp. in the trialsome times—NC).


Thomas Blackburn Baines (1832-1891)







MJS daily devotional for April 25

“The love of the Lord culminates in this, that we should be with Him. He died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him (1 Thess. 5:10). I find the one who is set on usefulness (Martha) does not advance like the one set on personal affection to Him (Mary). The Lord give us to be more personally attached to Himself; then we shall be useful according to His good pleasure.”​

“There is one thing that all can do—be ‘meet for the Master’s use’ (2 Tim. 2:21); and this is the secret of usefulness. Usefulness is not activity; it is not merely being used, but it is fitness, cleanness, preparedness, and separation of heart, singleness of eye, the affections set on things above—all, in fact, that proceeds from the judgment and denial of self, and the manifestation of Christ in the life by faith.”

“All my ability to act for the Lord Jesus here depends on my conscious identification with Him where He is, not where He was for me; though as I receive power from Him I walk here even as He walked; His life is manifested in me. -James Butler Stoney (1814-1897)

None But The Hungry Heart

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello netchaplain;

Thank you for your good thread, Clear-cut Mystery. To the unbeliever this would sound like an oxymoron. The mystery would remain a secret to those who don't believe, or struggle in their faith and remain in the darkness.

To the growing and seasoned believer, the mystery is the body of Christ, thus the Bride of Christ. This mystery is revealed when the believer is in the light.

This is why God commands us to remain in the Word, John 8:12-30,

12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

19 They said to him therefore, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

28 So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. 29 And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.” 30 As he was saying these things, many believed in him.

The more we delve in the Word and prayer, the more we are exposed to the mystery becoming more clear cut.

God bless you, Bob and your whole family.

 

[Prim90]

The Mr Baines does write and claim very much. We not know of the two different clans that the Mr Baines does claim. One of Israel being lord over the earthly kingdom and the church belonging to the heavenly kingdom. Me only know of the Israel of God or the universal church which does encompasses all as one. Jew and gentile alike as one . Past, Present and Future. The works of Mr Baines come very much tarred and tainted with a Brethren stick. A true disciple Mr Darby it seems. Beware of the Brethren many do say.

 

[netchaplain]

The Mr Baines does write and claim very much. We not know of the two different clans that the Mr Baines does claim. One of Israel being lord over the earthly kingdom and the church belonging to the heavenly kingdom. Me only know of the Israel of God or the universal church which does encompasses all as one. Jew and gentile alike as one . Past, Present and Future. The works of Mr Baines come very much tarred and tainted with a Brethren stick. A true disciple Mr Darby it seems. Beware of the Brethren many do say.

Hi, and thanks for the reply! It's my opinion that the Plymouth Brethren are too advanced for most in the category of spiritual growth. They have flaws like all saints do, but their doctrines are true to the Word of God. God bless!!

 

[Prim90]

Hi, and thanks for the reply! It's my opinion that the Plymouth Brethren are too advanced for most in the category of spiritual growth. They have flaws like all saints do, but their doctrines are true to the Word of God. God bless!!

I’m sure we all have flaws with human nature being what it is. But as to their doctrines many are relatively new and unknown to the early church. Mr Nelson Darby’s commentaries are highly legalistic and all over the place. Their doctrine of which we know today as Christian Zionism has infiltrated many mainline fundamentalist churches. Where we once had the Israel of God the Church. Now we have 2 separate bodies all tol . Gods chosen people Israel, and the Church. Many of the Brethren are genuine and very evangelistic I’ll grant you that depending if your dealing with open or closed Brethren.

 

[netchaplain]

I’m sure we all have flaws with human nature being what it is. But as to their doctrines many are relatively new and unknown to the early church. Mr Nelson Darby’s commentaries are highly legalistic and all over the place. Their doctrine of which we know today as Christian Zionism has infiltrated many mainline fundamentalist churches. Where we once had the Israel of God the Church. Now we have 2 separate bodies all tol . Gods chosen people Israel, and the Church. Many of the Brethren are genuine and very evangelistic I’ll grant you that depending if your dealing with open or closed Brethren.

I suppose it determines what you mean by "the early church." Some think the early church was the Roman Catholics, which are not Christians, though they claim to be. To me the early Church were the Christian Jews and Gentiles (circa 30-90 ad). It's my understanding that the Plymouth Brethren's doctrines are the closest to the doctrines of Christ and the Apostles. I've been studying them now for about 30 years and I am still learning more from them all the time.

 

[netchaplain]

The more we delve in the Word and prayer, the more we are exposed to the mystery becoming more clear cut.

It also take those who are properly taught in the fundamentals of spiritual growth in the Word of God (I think the Plymouth Brethren is the best start).

 

[Prim90]

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I suppose it determines what you mean by "the early church." Some think the early church was the Roman Catholics, which are not Christians, though they claim to be. To me the early Church were the Christian Jews and Gentiles (circa 30-90 ad). It's my understanding that the Plymouth Brethren's doctrines are the closest to the doctrines of Christ and the Apostles. I've been studying them now for about 30 years and I am still learning more from them all the time.

I guess in how we determine what the church believed and practiced from New Testament times has certainly changed over the Millennia's.. As to the the Eastern and Western church that became known as Byzantine and Rome. Yes they be much steeped in tradition and some things be contrary to scripture. But they still be very much Christian. The Holy Trinity and teachings of Jesus are clearly taught within their churches And the reality being that we all would be Muslims today if it wasn’t for the Byzantine orthodox and Roman Catholic empires that felt the full brunt of the Muslim onslaught and which was only finally repulsed at the gates of Vienna with all Christendom in the Balance. Thankfully the God did send the Polish Calvary to route the Otterman army to save the day. And the very reason we enjoy croissants today : )

 

[netchaplain]

---

But they still be very much Christian. The Holy Trinity and teachings of Jesus are clearly taught within their churches And the reality being that we all would be Muslims today if it wasn’t for the Byzantine orthodox and Roman Catholic empires

I don't think it to be Christian if anti-Christian teachings are prevalent, like the sinless birth of Mary the mother of Christ (Immaculate Conception of Mary); and many more teachings that are anti-Christian. Many if not most Bible commentators attribute "the great whore" of Revelation to be the Roman Catholic system.

 

[Prim90]

I don't think it to be Christian if anti-Christian teachings are prevalent, like the sinless birth of Mary the mother of Christ (Immaculate Conception of Mary); and many more teachings that are anti-Christian. Many if not most Bible commentators attribute "the great whore" of Revelation to be the Roman Catholic system.

Netch the bible commentators be many and have varying views even some of the church fathers refer to Rome being the Whore mentioned in Revelations 11. But at the same time I can’t remember the Roman Catholic Church nor Rome being specifically mentioned. But there be quite a few whores mentioned in the bible. Tyre is mentioned as a Whore in Isaiah 23:16-17, Nineveh is also mentioned as a Whore. In Nahum 3:4 But perhaps the greatest Whore of all is Jerusalem herself.Isaiah 1:21 for God did see her once as his wife.I certainly don’t rule the Roman Catholic Church out as being part of the future one world religion as she has been infiltrated like every other religion including the Protestants you only have to look from what comes out from many of our bible seminaries. All religions must succumb and will succumb to the future king of Jerusalem.

 

[netchaplain]

Netch the bible commentators be many and have varying views even some of the church fathers refer to Rome being the Whore mentioned in Revelations 11. But at the same time I can’t remember the Roman Catholic Church nor Rome being specifically mentioned. But there be quite a few whores mentioned in the bible.

Not all of those who worship within the Catholic religion are non-Christian, as some are just ignorant of the Truth of the Word (but do want Jesus), from not reading and studying the Bible. But those in this system who are genuinely seeking truth will find it (seek and find), just not in that system, but will be led to move on to where they can find truth.

 

[bobinfaith]

The Mr Baines does write and claim very much. We not know of the two different clans that the Mr Baines does claim. One of Israel being lord over the earthly kingdom and the church belonging to the heavenly kingdom. Me only know of the Israel of God or the universal church which does encompasses all as one. Jew and gentile alike as one . Past, Present and Future. The works of Mr Baines come very much tarred and tainted with a Brethren stick. A true disciple Mr Darby it seems. Beware of the Brethren many do say.

I’m sure we all have flaws with human nature being what it is. But as to their doctrines many are relatively new and unknown to the early church. Mr Nelson Darby’s commentaries are highly legalistic and all over the place. Their doctrine of which we know today as Christian Zionism has infiltrated many mainline fundamentalist churches. Where we once had the Israel of God the Church. Now we have 2 separate bodies all tol . Gods chosen people Israel, and the Church. Many of the Brethren are genuine and very evangelistic I’ll grant you that depending if your dealing with open or closed Brethren.

I don't think it to be Christian if anti-Christian teachings are prevalent, like the sinless birth of Mary the mother of Christ (Immaculate Conception of Mary); and many more teachings that are anti-Christian. Many if not most Bible commentators attribute "the great whore" of Revelation to be the Roman Catholic system.

Hello Prim90;

In my reading of the Clear-cut Mystery I posted my understanding of this topic. Please elaborate what I red-lighted in your posts and in particular the Plymouth Brethren.

I didn't see your points to the verb of the topic.

Hello netchaplain;

Your apologetics are of another discussion. By what you were responding to Prim90, I could not align it to the teaching of your thread.

Please help me understand so I can reconcile both your points.

Thank you and may God bless you, both and your families.

 

[Prim90]

Hello Prim90;

In my reading of the Clear-cut Mystery I posted my understanding of this topic. Please elaborate what I red-lighted in your posts and in particular the Plymouth Brethren.

I didn't see your points to the verb of the topic.

Hello netchaplain;

Your apologetics are of another discussion. By what you were responding to Prim90, I could not align it to the teaching of your thread.

Please help me understand so I can reconcile both your points.

Thank you and may God bless you, both and your families.

Bob my contention with the Mr Baines and like minded writers from the 19th century like Nelson Darby all the way up to the present day writers like Hal Lindsey John haggie and so many more. Is that they have have divided the church and Israel into two seperate bodies when there was only ever one body that being the Israel of God or commonly known as the Universal Church. This is a age old Judaic doctrine that the Jews are to rule the world from Jerusalem with the entire world in subjection to them, and with the church being in the heavenly somewhere with God is a false doctrine. As I said a lot of false doctrine and wolves have entered into Protestant seminaries and churches and not only just the Roman Catholic Church alone. The question should be asked why promote such a Christ rejecting religion such as Judaism and attack only the Roman Catholic faith which acknowledges the Holy Trinity and the Christian faith. We are even now at the point of saying that the Jews are Gods chosen people and that they have no need of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I do hope me has wrote enough for now for you to evaluate and gain a more clear picture. Yours Prim

 

[Prim90]

Not all of those who worship within the Catholic religion are non-Christian, as some are just ignorant of the Truth of the Word (but do want Jesus), from not reading and studying the Bible. But those in this system who are genuinely seeking truth will find it (seek and find), just not in that system, but will be led to move on to where they can find truth.

You say the Roman Catholic Church be non Christian? But not all Roman Catholics be non Christians. Netch that be very generous of you. You say from not reading and studying the word of God. Well considering that not many of us could fully access the complete word of God until around the 17th and 18th century. Until that time the local church was our centre of learning. Netch I’m not so sure that the Roman Catholic Church can be solely nominated as Mystery Babylon and the Whore of revelation considering that Roman Catholic never officially became known under that title until around the 6th century AD. Perhaps a little to late to be a contender for the Whore of Revelation that’s rides the Beast. And Christianity never became the official religion of the Roman Empire until after Constantine's time in 380AD under emperor Theodosius.. that may add a little more extra splice as we search out the truth of Mystery Babylon.. We must also consider the John never wrote the book of Revelations until just prior to 70AD or very shortly after. Prim

 

[netchaplain]

Netch I’m not so sure that the Roman Catholic Church can be solely nominated as Mystery Babylon and the Whore of revelation considering that Roman Catholic never officially became known under that title until around the 6th century AD.

Just for information, the Bible was translated into English in the mid 1500's by Erasmus, Stephanus, Coverdale, Augustine and others. The text from Erasmus and Stephanus became the Majority Text or Textus Receptus or Authorized version, which is where the King James came from.

I believe the RCC has the most sway in the religious realm because of the numbers of members, and is why it is the largest contributor in teaching falsehood concerning Christianity; and the members do not know the false teachings because of not knowing the Word of God.

 

[netchaplain]

Hello netchaplain;

Your apologetics are of another discussion. By what you were responding to Prim90, I could not align it to the teaching of your thread.

Please help me understand so I can reconcile both your points.

Yes, we were discussing the RCC, which was not directly related to the thread, but no less important to know the truth about the RCC.

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello Prim90 and netchaplain;

Thank you for sharing your views with me.

God bless you both and your families.

 

[netchaplain]

Hello Prim90 and netchaplain;

Thank you for sharing your views with me.

God bless you both and your families.

God's blessings to your Family my Brother!