Confused: Jesus Christ Paid For All Sin

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MatthewG

Hello you,

Am a little confused about something. Jesus Christ came and did pay for all the sins of all people in the whole world. Past, present, and future sins.

Jesus Christ states this in scripture Mark 3:29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” —; also in Matthew 12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.


My understanding is this: That we have all been forgiven of our sins, right for Jesus Christ paid for our sins. However there is no forgiveness in this life or the life to come until we accept the truth of what the Lord Jesus Christ has done, until then we are still dead in our sins - until we turn towards God and the Lord Jesus Christ and receive forgiveness and continue to walk with them by faith.

Would this be a more correct understanding ?

That people are not forgiven of their sins until they accept the truth because of the reject of accepting Jesus Christ in ones life?

When you do place your trust and faith in them after learning about the truth, that is when a person receives and is forgiven?


Would be interested in your thoughts and insights please, and thank you for reading.

May the Grace o the Lord Jesus Christ, love of God, and fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you and among your family.
 
MatthewG said:
Hello you,

Am a little confused about something. Jesus Christ came and did pay for all the sins of all people in the whole world. Past, present, and future sins.

My understanding is this: That we have all been forgiven of our sins, right for Jesus Christ paid for our sins. However there is no forgiveness in this life or the life to come until we accept the truth of what the Lord Jesus Christ has done, until then we are still dead in our sins - until we turn towards God and the Lord Jesus Christ and receive forgiveness and continue to walk with them by faith.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this with us. There are many topics of discussion here so I'll share some scriptures you might want to consider.
When I read your statement of understanding several questions come to my mind.

Who exactly is forgiven of sin and when?
How can we claim that forgiveness?
Is there something that we must do to claim God's forgiveness?
What is the truth of what Christ has done?
What is the way of truth?

MatthewG said:
Would this be a more correct understanding ?

That people are not forgiven of their sins until they accept the truth because of the reject of accepting Jesus Christ in ones life?
Click to expand...

The timing of salvation is not up to men.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (KJV)

Some other things to consider
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (KJV)
John 12:44-50

When are we forgiven our sins? Is it after accepting the truth of Christ?
Mat 6:12 tells us that we must forgive the debts of others and then our debts can be forgiven. Of course we are unable to do this until we have received the Holy Spirit which makes it possible.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: (KJV)
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. (KJV)

MatthewG said:
When you do place your trust and faith in them after learning about the truth, that is when a person receives and is forgiven?


Would be interested in your thoughts and insights please, and thank you for reading.

May the Grace o the Lord Jesus Christ, love of God, and fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you and among your family.
Click to expand...

I would agree with what I highlighted in blue.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (KJV)
 
MatthewG said:
Hello you,

Am a little confused about something. Jesus Christ came and did pay for all the sins of all people in the whole world. Past, present, and future sins.

Jesus Christ states this in scripture Mark 3:29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” —; also in Matthew 12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.


My understanding is this: That we have all been forgiven of our sins, right for Jesus Christ paid for our sins. However there is no forgiveness in this life or the life to come until we accept the truth of what the Lord Jesus Christ has done, until then we are still dead in our sins - until we turn towards God and the Lord Jesus Christ and receive forgiveness and continue to walk with them by faith.

Would this be a more correct understanding ?

That people are not forgiven of their sins until they accept the truth because of the reject of accepting Jesus Christ in ones life?

When you do place your trust and faith in them after learning about the truth, that is when a person receives and is forgiven?


Would be interested in your thoughts and insights please, and thank you for reading.

May the Grace o the Lord Jesus Christ, love of God, and fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you and among your family.
Click to expand...

It really is not that confusing Matthew.

You have to distinguish between the purchase and the permanent securing of our forgiveness once for all at the death of Jesus, on the one hand, from the personal possession and enjoyment of that benefit, which comes to us through faith, on the other hand. At the death of Jesus, our sins are canceled, nailed to the cross, debt fully paid. So, payment and securing are accomplished once for all — never to be repeated, permanently, infallibly for all God’s people when Christ died.

But the personal reception, the possession, the enjoyment of that achievement, that purchase, that securing of forgiveness comes to God’s people only through faith in Christ — union with Christ by faith.

I say that because of texts like Acts 10:43.......
"Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

I mean, that’s clear. Everyone who believes receives forgiveness of sins.

And Romans 3:28....
“We hold that one is justified by faith.”

So, we are justified, including forgiveness of sins and right standing with God, by faith.
 
Cperkins:

Who exactly is forgiven of sin and when? All people - When Jesus Christ died on the cross.

How can we claim that forgiveness? Turn towards God, and allow Him through His Son Christ Jesus to work in our lives.

Is there something that we must do to claim God's forgiveness? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ by having faith, who was raised from the dead by God.

What is the truth of what Christ has done?
He paid for all of the sins of the entire world, and has forgiven everyone - though some people have disbelief so they do not receive the acceptance of forgiveness due to their unbelief.

What is the way of truth? The Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you for the questions and the scriptures: Much appreciated in your help.

Major:

Thank you for making it clear and sharing the scriptures.
 
MatthewG said:
Cperkins:

Who exactly is forgiven of sin and when? All people - When Jesus Christ died on the cross.
Click to expand...

I too believe that all will be given the opportunity at some time. It is matter of timing. If you believe that mankind of their own accord can turn to God at anytime, I'm not persuaded of this myself. If you are persuaded that this is true through scripture then that is wonderful. We are all accountable to God. God through the Holy Spirit leads us as a church and as individuals to the truth.

MatthewG said:
Cperkins:

How can we claim that forgiveness? Turn towards God, and allow Him through His Son Christ Jesus to work in our lives.
Click to expand...

Do you believe that mankind is able to turn to God on their own? I don't find scripture to support that myself.
What does it mean to turn to God? How do you define turning to God? I know in my own heart what these mean and trust that it is God that leads me. I get the sense that God is leading you as well. Follow that lead and let him shore up the truth he reveals.

MatthewG said:
Cperkins:

Is there something that we must do to claim God's forgiveness? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ by having faith, who was raised from the dead by God.
Click to expand...

I agree that we must believe on the Lord by having faith and that faith is a gift of God's grace. Isn't more said though. The model prayer that Christ gave us tells us that we must forgive others there sins which is also an act of love towards our neighbor. We are told also to repent and believe in a number of places.

MatthewG said:
Cperkins:

What is the truth of what Christ has done?
He paid for all of the sins of the entire world, and has forgiven everyone - though some people have disbelief so they do not receive the acceptance of forgiveness due to their unbelief.

What is the way of truth? The Lord Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

I ask questions all the time when I read scripture because I know that all truth and spiritual understanding comes from God. Questions help me to focus on what God is telling me through his word. Sometimes I find the answers in the immediate context a few scriptures before and after. I also like to make notes of my observations around each scripture and the context. Often I feel the need to study a topic so as to have a broader perspective of all of God's word as applied to a question.

That being said, if you are satisfied with the answers that you have great.

For me, I want more. Following Christ will lead to spiritual truth. What though is the way of truth, Christ instructed us in that way, so I like to look at those passages to understand that way clearly.

I personally don't believe that people can turn to God on their own without the Holy Spirit opening their eyes and ears (which is an act of God) and the Father bringing them to Christ who then shows each of us the way. I've found amble scripture to satisfy myself that this is true.
 
No there is nothing more: according to Romans 10:9? If a person confess that Jesus is Lord and believes from the heart that God raised Him from the dead they shall be saved.

When you speak about God pulling people to Him through Christ Jesus, it is agreed. Faith is a persuasion of God through his promises that are made in the Bible and people make the choice to believe them or not.

God does ‘woo’ people towards himself through Christ Jesus; then make the choice to believe and when they do they can either continue to grow in faith and trust in God, or they can even taste what is good for a moment then give it up for it is to difficult.

Believe people can be saved even without using scripture though scripture is beneficial to spiritual growth. People have to make that choice to continue to grow after hearing the word of God spoken to them. God can work on peoples hearts and minds in my best estimation, for a person who confesses and believes from the heart speaks volumes.

A mustard seed of faith can grow faster when it is watered, and fed. Or it can even die if it is not nourished:

Hope this give better understanding, cause there is a choice in and on our own part at least in the area of making choice.


It’s like there is a two lane highway where God is reaching down towards us, and we are reaching up (spiritually) towards him. To stay connected, nourished, watered, and thankful and prayer is a great and good promise God has given us!

There are scriptures that talk about God heard us when we pray, scriptures about resurrection (two types) either way it is victory over death, Lord Jesus Christ promises eternal life (our walk with God on the eternal and spiritual side that comes with prayer and being thankful towards God and loving Him and others), God promises that we have been forgiven of all our sins (though we lay our old lifestyle down and pick up the new lifestyle with God and Jesus) we won’t be perfect but God promises to help us in temptation that it will not overcome us. God promises that his grace is sufficient enough. God promises that when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ we will be given the Holy Spirit; also the ability to become children of God.

Thank you for your comments, Cp.
 
Last edited:
I believe the lifting of the brass serpent on a pole in the wilderness makes an excellent illustration...

Numbers 21:6-9 (KJV) And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

The types and imagery need no elaboration.
The Israelites had come to a realization and confession of their sin.
Brass- speaks of judgment.
Brass serpent on a pole- speaks of Christ, for our sin, being judged on the cross.
Lifted up-His resurrection
Looking and living- pictures faith of the repentant believer.

What is often overlooked though, is how this is tied to Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus about being born again.


John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:14 (KJV) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

as well as in Acts...

Acts 19:2 (KJV) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

and Paul in Galatians...

Galatians 3:2 (KJV) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

(Workflow) God convicts-->we confess--God provides our forgiveness (as well as send messengers about the Good News of His provision-->we turn (in repentance) and believe (faith), we are passed out of Judgment into Life)- God gives us His Spirit-->we are renewed and daily cleansed and fitted.
 
forgiven61 thanks for the response. I ask questions and take notes on observations I make. I gave example questions that I might ask myself when I study God's word.

I agree that if we reject Jesus Christ we will die in sin. Does this answer the question of forgiveness of sin? In part, I would say. Personally I would want to search the scriptures for a fuller answer that explains other scriptures that speak of forgiveness and sin.
 
CPerkins said:
forgiven61 thanks for the response. I ask questions and take notes on observations I make. I gave example questions that I might ask myself when I study God's word.

I agree that if we reject Jesus Christ we will die in sin. Does this answer the question of forgiveness of sin? In part, I would say. Personally I would want to search the scriptures for a fuller answer that explains other scriptures that speak of forgiveness and sin.
Click to expand...
sin of unbelief
John 3:36

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Revelation 21:8


But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
if one dies with out Christ that is the unpardonable sin there are only two types people saved or lost .no in-between no think so no hope so. a person has to know and if they are not sure then odds are they are not
 
Belief in Christ is necessary for forgiveness. These scriptures tell us that there is more as well.

Mat 6:12-15 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

Mat 18:21-35 Christ gave a parable about forgiveness

Mark 11:25-26 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. (KJV)

Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. (KJV)

2 Cor 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (KJV)
 
MatthewG said:
Hello you,

Am a little confused about something. Jesus Christ came and did pay for all the sins of all people in the whole world. Past, present, and future sins.

Jesus Christ states this in scripture Mark 3:29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” —; also in Matthew 12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.


My understanding is this: That we have all been forgiven of our sins, right for Jesus Christ paid for our sins. However there is no forgiveness in this life or the life to come until we accept the truth of what the Lord Jesus Christ has done, until then we are still dead in our sins - until we turn towards God and the Lord Jesus Christ and receive forgiveness and continue to walk with them by faith.

Would this be a more correct understanding ?

That people are not forgiven of their sins until they accept the truth because of the reject of accepting Jesus Christ in ones life?

When you do place your trust and faith in them after learning about the truth, that is when a person receives and is forgiven?


Would be interested in your thoughts and insights please, and thank you for reading.

May the Grace o the Lord Jesus Christ, love of God, and fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you and among your family.
Click to expand...
I am a Particular Baptist, so would see this as jesus died in the stead and in the place of His own, those whom God intended to get saved, but the truth is that the saving grace still only applies to the saved!
 
YeshuaFan said:
those whom God intended to get saved, but the truth is that the saving grace still only applies to the saved!
Click to expand...
peter wrote God is not willing any to perish but all come to repentance . its simply not his will to for any to perish.. sad thing is not every one will be saved..
 
forgiven61 said:
peter wrote God is not willing any to perish but all come to repentance . its simply not his will to for any to perish.. sad thing is not every one will be saved..
Click to expand...
Think that would be referring to his own getting saved, but important thing is to make sure that our own salvation is true!
 
YeshuaFan said:
Think that would be referring to his own getting saved, but important thing is to make sure that our own salvation is true!
Click to expand...
i am well aware of reformed theology as well as what your saying. how ever i will respectfully disagree with you , how ever i do agree important thing is to make sure that our own salvation is true!. i call it a know so salvation. i attended a service last night where the evangelist led with a prayer for salvation . then after that he said if you said this prayer and mean it.. look straight at me. i am not a fan of this type altar call . i prefer the invitation they come to the altar from being drawn by the spirit. yes i am a form believer in free will salvation. which is not a pick and chose time date place one gets saved i like the great innovation found in REV . Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top