Consternation Over Torah-following

[Musicmaster]

I'm hearing more and more about another growing movement, which is belief that observance of Torah Law (Mosaic Law) coupled with faith in Christ Jesus is required to gain and retain one's salvation.

Now, granted, the Mosaic Law was a valid requirement upon Israel, as can be seen through Torah. Absent in that narrative, however, is any command upon other nations to abide by the Mosaic Law. This is seen when we read:

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that [are] upon the earth.

If there are no inflexible laws to set one nation apart from all others, then one is left trying to discover what other features would set Israel apart from all other nations of the earth. The other nations of the world have always been rooted into the soils of subjective law. Even the seemingly inflexible Persian laws were added to on a regular basis, such as the laws of nations in the West, who pile new laws upon old laws, thus creating a system filled with inconsistencies, confusion and subjective quarreling over which law is more binding upon each case that goes before the courts, with judges swayed in their judgements on the basis of their political leanings.

The Mosaic Law consisting of about 613 Laws was supposed to be inflexible and unchanging, and yet Israel dabbled in the same practices of other nations by devising a separate code of "traditions of the elders" by adding to the Mosaic Law what they thought was necessary, such as how many steps one could walk on the Sabbath before it was deemed as "working," which was then a violation of Sabbath. Even today, tourists in Israel have become accustomed to the strange and unbiblical traditions for what it means to observe Shabbat, with elevators constantly running from floor to floor without any pushing of buttons since doing so is deemed as "work."

So, we have today a massive movement sweeping across the world, with adherents harboring a range of beliefs about the requirement to be Torah observant. In that range of beliefs are a mix of teachings that declare such things as Paul of Tarsus being a false apostle since he vehemently fought against Torah-observance as a requirement upon Christians after the cross (please read the book of Galatians). Many of them believe that one can and will lose his salvation by not believing and practicing the equation of Christ + Law. They generally reject the HIGHER Law the Lord writes upon the hearts of His followers. To them, stone and papyrus are the source of Law. Matthew 5 is very clear in showing the inferiority of the Mosaic Law to the Law of God that He writes in our hearts, which does not contain the requirements of observing the Sabbath, the feasts and dietary laws couched in the Mosaic Law.

Granted, most of you have not yet encountered those in this movement, but they are out there, and they are adding to their numbers proselyte Gentiles from Christian churches since they do little to no evangelizing of the lost through the Gospel. Many in this movement are experiencing entire families being torn apart from the division that the teachings harbored within this movement's multifaceted beliefs.

Many of you, however, if you're out there sharing the Gospel, and walking through life with your eyes open while engaging with the people of the world around you, it's an almost certainty that you will encounter someone along the way who has fallen prey to this insidious system of false teaching.

This thread is open to any and all discussion about this belief system, and for sharing your experiences with this held tightly in its grasp.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

I ran across a man who made a video where he shared his experience of entering this movement, and then getting out of it. He shared how one of the main tactics in some of the teachings within this movement as being rooted in guilt and condemnation, which is very similar to a number of cults of which we are all familiar.

He shared two main go-to sections of scripture that were used on him to guilt him into becoming Torah-observant:

1 John 3:4 - Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

The Greek word translated as "lawlessness" is defined in Thayer's Greek Lexicon as:

2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness: Matthew 23:28; Matthew 24:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:8 (T Tr text WH text; cf. ἁμαρτία, 1, p. 30f), 2 Thessalonians 2:7; Titus 2:14; 1 John 3:4

Those in that movement teach that virtually ever occurrence of the term "law" and "lawlessness" always is a reference to the Mosaic Law, or Torah Law, which is false. It plays upon the ignorance of the masses in language and definitions, and upon the weaknesses of our English translations.

The other verses he mentioned as being among the main weapons in their arsenal:

Hebews 10:26-27
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
voluntarily, willingly, of one's own accord:

Yikes! This whip of has scarred and ripped open the backs of many a professing believer, laying open the otherwise healthy flesh of biblical belief. This tactic of ripping verses out of their context is indeed a powerful weapon when applied against the masses of ignorant and willfully defenseless believers out there who are generally too lazy and uncaring to educate themselves in the word of God.

So, if someone starts beating you over the head with verses like unto these, please come back here and lets talk.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

One of many proofs that the Mosaic Law is fulfilled, and replaced by the New Covenant, with God's Law written in our hearts, is to look at Jesus.

Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 4:14-15
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.

Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, [even] Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The Mosaic Law, on the other hand, demanded that the priesthood was limited ONLY to the descendants of Levi, and Jesus was descended from Judah. If that isn't change, then I'd have to ask the Torah-ism followers what constitutes enough change for them to accept the glaring truth!

MM

 

[LearningToLetGo]

I think the desire to wrap ourselves in the protective cocoon of laws and regulations is itself a temptation. As long as laws and regulations dictate our behavior we are not responsible for our own actions for the law tells us what we must do or not do. Jesus made God's will well known in Matthew 22:36-40 when asked about this very issue.

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (ESV)

We are to love God and to love one another. If we hold fast to this one commandment, if we fill ourselves with love to the extent that we no longer 'obey', but simply act out of true and honest love then all of the law will be naturally fulfilled. Indeed, all of the law may be dispensed with since it will no longer be necessary to prescribe or proscribe our behavior and will instead naturally act with God's grace.

 

[Musicmaster]

I think the desire to wrap ourselves in the protective cocoon of laws and regulations is itself a temptation. As long as laws and regulations dictate our behavior we are not responsible for our own actions for the law tells us what we must do or not do. Jesus made God's will well known in Matthew 22:36-40 when asked about this very issue.

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (ESV)

We are to love God and to love one another. If we hold fast to this one commandment, if we fill ourselves with love to the extent that we no longer 'obey', but simply act out of true and honest love then all of the law will be naturally fulfilled. Indeed, all of the law may be dispensed with since it will no longer be necessary to prescribe or proscribe our behavior and will instead naturally act with God's grace.

Thanks for the comment.

If I may add to that, there's also a deep-seated desire within the flesh to work out its own path forward, and in the manner that the flesh is comfortable with in this life. In doing so, we give to ourselves reassurances, though they be false, that we have done good enough. That's the basis, I've noticed, that most roman catholics believe that their "mother Teressa" is a saint in Heaven...because of all her good works, and her being declared by other fleshly men to be a "saint." It doesn't seem to matter to them that good works, not matter how sacrificial, will never get anyone into Heaven, even going through all the sacraments and have all the prayers directed at them for being let out of that non-existent place of "cleansing." It's entirely up to the Lord as to if she is in Heaven or Hell for her reliance upon good works since we know that the Lord judges on the basis of having been born again. Anyone can do good works, and even give their entire life over to good works, and that will never suffice so long as one is not born again.

That is not an indictment against her specifically since it applies to us all. The issue is that we are not her or anyone else judge. Only the Lord sits on that Throne.

MM