Deuteronomy 21

[Via dolarossa]

​

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

I kind of understand Israel had better and kinder laws than other nations. Setting a captive free after 6 years, and pretty much behaving better than other tribes.
But I don’t understand why a soldier who captured a wife would want to shave her hair for a month?
What’s difference does it make?

 

[BibleLover]

But I don’t understand why a soldier who captured a wife would want to shave her hair for a month?
What’s difference does it make?

Perhaps it was a precaution against lice.

 

[Via dolarossa]

Perhaps it was a precaution against lice.

I’m not sure if your being serious, but I laughed because it was funny anyway.

God dosent say why he shave her hair but it is disgraceful for a woman to shave her head. Maybe these women would not cover their heads in public and so the man shaved it off to show her who’s boss.

edit: this actually makes sense now I come to think of it.

 

[Papa Smurf]

..... this actually makes sense now I come to think of it.

What makes sense? (a man shaving his new wife-to-be's head because of her lice-laden locks? )

You know, I guess if that's the case, it probably did make sense, especially back then anyway

 

[Via dolarossa]

What makes sense? (a man shaving his new wife-to-be's head because of her lice-laden locks? )

No.
Im thinking like Paul did all those years ago.
Speaking the Word of God prophesy and praying without a hair covering was shameful back then. The culture back then and was different than today. So 1Corinthians 11 is tied in with Deuteronomy 21.

 

[Papa Smurf]

No.
Im thinking like Paul did all those years ago.
Speaking the Word of God prophesy and praying without a hair covering was shameful back then. The culture back then and was different than today. So 1Corinthians 11 is tied in with Deuteronomy 21.

That's an interesting thought!

My last post was obviously meant to be silly, of course. My real or serious thoughts about what's going on in Deuteronomy 21 (at least the ones that I started the thread with) are, in short, that these actions were intended as a means of giving her time to relinquish the deep, emotional ties that she surely felt for her own people (and likewise, the natural affection that she, no doubt, felt for her former nation), so that she had a real shot at beginning life anew with an undivided heart/affection for her new nation/new people, and of course, for her husband.

I actually find this quite interesting because, first and foremost, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for someone to choose to enter into marriage in a situation like this one (where a man, who was her mortal enemy last month, becomes both her husband and the future father of her children this month ).

I also find it interesting because the woman (in this particular situation in ancient Israel) seems to have been elevated to a status that was equal to that of her captor, almost as if she was already a citizen of Israel. As such, there must have been no coercion on the part of her captor to marry him as she appears to have as much say about the marriage going forward or not as the man did (because the text makes it clear that she was free to walk away if she didn't want to get married, and that she would do so as a free woman).

If memory serves, this was a fairly unique scenario in the whole of the ancient world, because I don't believe that other nations treated the people of the nations that they'd conquered with anything close to this kind of respect (especially the women).

Thanks for pointing this passage out to us as it is VERY interesting to me (as I already mentioned once or twice above ). I'm going to take a deeper look into it (especially the connection with 1 Corinthians 11) and get back to you, and I am also looking forward to hearing what others have to say about it too.

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[Via dolarossa]

That's an interesting thought!

My last post was obviously meant to be silly, of course. My real or serious thoughts about what's going on in Deuteronomy 21 (at least the ones that I started the thread with) are, in short, that these actions were intended as a means of giving her time to relinquish the deep, emotional ties that she surely felt for her own people (and likewise, the natural affection that she, no doubt, felt for her former nation), so that she had a real shot at beginning life anew with an undivided heart/affection for her new nation/new people, and of course, for her husband.

I actually find this quite interesting because, first and foremost, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for someone to choose to enter into marriage in a situation like this one (where a man, who was her mortal enemy last month, becomes both her husband and the future father of her children this month ).

I also find it interesting because the woman (in this particular situation in ancient Israel) seems to have been elevated to a status that was equal to that of her captor, almost as if she was already a citizen of Israel. As such, there must have been no coercion on the part of her captor to marry him as she appears to have as much say about the marriage going forward or not as the man did (because the text makes it clear that she was free to walk away if she didn't want to get married, and that she would do so as a free woman).

If memory serves, this was a fairly unique scenario in the whole of the ancient world, because I don't believe that other nations treated the people of the nations that they'd conquered with anything close to this kind of respect (especially the women).

Thanks for pointing this passage out to us as it is VERY interesting to me (as I already mentioned once or twice above ). I'm going to take a deeper look into it (especially the connection with 1 Corinthians 11) and get back to you, and I am also looking forward to hearing what others have to say about it too.

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

Well now you mention it, your version sounds much nicer to the woman than mine.
And if he wasn’t pleased he would just let her go.
How nice were these men back then?
No hounding, no spying, no stalking…

Bring back the good old days that’s what I now say!

Edit: actually, that would be awful. Once married and then rejected would be even worse!

 

[Via dolarossa]

Yes it seems to be a sign of mourning when a woman shaves her head in Jewish thoughts.

Never knew that. I seemed to think he was humiliating her for some odd reason.

 

[Major]

That's an interesting thought!

My last post was obviously meant to be silly, of course. My real or serious thoughts about what's going on in Deuteronomy 21 (at least the ones that I started the thread with) are, in short, that these actions were intended as a means of giving her time to relinquish the deep, emotional ties that she surely felt for her own people (and likewise, the natural affection that she, no doubt, felt for her former nation), so that she had a real shot at beginning life anew with an undivided heart/affection for her new nation/new people, and of course, for her husband.

I actually find this quite interesting because, first and foremost, I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for someone to choose to enter into marriage in a situation like this one (where a man, who was her mortal enemy last month, becomes both her husband and the future father of her children this month ).

I also find it interesting because the woman (in this particular situation in ancient Israel) seems to have been elevated to a status that was equal to that of her captor, almost as if she was already a citizen of Israel. As such, there must have been no coercion on the part of her captor to marry him as she appears to have as much say about the marriage going forward or not as the man did (because the text makes it clear that she was free to walk away if she didn't want to get married, and that she would do so as a free woman).

If memory serves, this was a fairly unique scenario in the whole of the ancient world, because I don't believe that other nations treated the people of the nations that they'd conquered with anything close to this kind of respect (especially the women).

Thanks for pointing this passage out to us as it is VERY interesting to me (as I already mentioned once or twice above ). I'm going to take a deeper look into it (especially the connection with 1 Corinthians 11) and get back to you, and I am also looking forward to hearing what others have to say about it too.

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

Yu are right on. Notice that the Scripture does not mention her husband. That kind of says these are unmarried women.

It also has to do with the women changing cultures! What they were they are not any longer.

It seems to me that God is teaching the men in Israel how to treat women fairly.

 

[2404]

No.
Im thinking like Paul did all those years ago.
Speaking the Word of God prophesy and praying without a hair covering was shameful back then. The culture back then and was different than today. So 1Corinthians 11 is tied in with Deuteronomy 21.

Hello Via
I was expecting you to answer the question when you brought up 1. Cor. 11.
Having her head shaven symbolically divorced her from her former estate.
I was surprised by the thought that culture had anything to do with the Word.

 

[Via dolarossa]

Hello Via
I was expecting you to answer the question when you brought up 1. Cor. 11.
Having her head shaven symbolically divorced her from her former estate.
I was surprised by the thought that culture had anything to do with the Word.

No I haven’t been able to answer it so I just assumed she wanted to shave her head for her new husband in order to mourn her family as the Jewish custom was back then.

 

[bobinfaith]

Yu are right on. Notice that the Scripture does not mention her husband. That kind of says these are unmarried women. It also has to do with the women changing cultures! What they were they are not any longer. It seems to me that God is teaching the men in Israel how to treat women fairly.

Hello Via I was expecting you to answer the question when you brought up 1. Cor. 11. Having her head shaven symbolically divorced her from her former estate. I was surprised by the thought that culture had anything to do with the Word.

No I haven’t been able to answer it so I just assumed she wanted to shave her head for her new husband in order to mourn her family as the Jewish custom was back then.

Hello 2404 and Via;

You both make good points. Major is correct on women changing cultures and God was instructing men in Israel how to treat women fairy, especially captive women.

After war Israeli men would take women captive to be their wife but God was also aware of the abuse by the men. After God gave the enemy into the hands of His army some of the men would abuse God's deliverance of their enemies, but also the women captives. So He gave serious guidelines regarding treatment of the captive women.

He also gave instructions of the women shaving their heads and trim their nails as an act of humbleness, purification and a new allegiance leaving her past and starting anew in God's nation.

Regarding 2404's comment on culture and the Word, the more we study the exegesis of the Bible, we learn to distinguish the deeper meaning of God's Word, first, and then the relevance or irrelevance of the culture, customs and government of those times.

Via, the teaching in 1 Corinthians 11: 1-16 is the Lord's teaching about the appropriate principle and instruction on head coverings during worship and is not tied to Deuteronomy 21:10-13.

God bless you all and your families.

 

[Big Moose]

Since God understands how much women identify with their hair, even define themselves by it/ part of who they are, this is truly about leaving who they were behind and starting over, encouraging them to mourn and have a new start in life. I can only imagine the dangers for women in the pagan world back then, the lawlessness, those who had the power did as they chose without regard of law or moral code. Of course, some imposed their own law or moral code, but that is only what it was, self imposed laws and codes, which could change with a whim.

 

[Via dolarossa]

Yes i was on my own fence and I’m always unsure if I was barking up the wrong tree.

It must have been difficult for both parties to fall in love but be enemies at the same time.
Family ties and culture that tied them must have been a difficult bondage as I can see how things may have been hard especially as we look at warring families tribes. But attraction is what it is. In fact, attraction can be worse in war. Emotions are heightened and fear does strange things, it can bond us differently than can love. Trauma bonding is well known and back then when war between tribes was rife I can only imagine how difficult it must have been for both parties especially for men. After all, a man thrives better when he knows he is king of his castle and the woman supports this.

Anyway, if anything, I have gotten some understanding from this.
As I assumed the woman was traumatised… I also now assume the man was also…maybe the ritual of shaving her hair off to celebrate their lives together was like him buying her a few drinks at the pub and a holiday in todays culture.

 

[Major]

Hello 2404 and Via;

You both make good points. Major is correct on women changing cultures and God was instructing men in Israel how to treat women fairy, especially captive women.

After war Israeli men would take women captive to be their wife but God was also aware of the abuse by the men. After God gave the enemy into the hands of His army some of the men would abuse God's deliverance of their enemies, but also the women captives. So He gave serious guidelines regarding treatment of the captive women.

He also gave instructions of the women shaving their heads and trim their nails as an act of humbleness, purification and a new allegiance leaving her past and starting anew in God's nation.

Regarding 2404's comment on culture and the Word, the more we study the exegesis of the Bible, we learn to distinguish the deeper meaning of God's Word, first, and then the relevance or irrelevance of the culture, customs and government of those times.

Via, the teaching in 1 Corinthians 11: 1-16 is the Lord's teaching about the appropriate principle and instruction on head coverings during worship and is not tied to Deuteronomy 21:10-13.

God bless you all and your families.

Agreed!

 

[Major]

Since God understands how much women identify with their hair, even define themselves by it/ part of who they are, this is truly about leaving who they were behind and starting over, encouraging them to mourn and have a new start in life. I can only imagine the dangers for women in the pagan world back then, the lawlessness, those who had the power did as they chose without regard of law or moral code. Of course, some imposed their own law or moral code, but that is only what it was, self imposed laws and codes, which could change with a whim.

Agreed!