First Steps in the Old Testament: A Question About the Plural

[Dave F.]

(Genesis 1:28: "And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."), and then, later, formed woman from Adam’s rib.

Yurii,
In Genesis 1 we are given a general look at the creation of Adam and Eve. In Genesis 2 we are given more detail about how God made them. Adam was made from the dust of the earth and then Eve was made sometime later from Adam's rib. There are 2 explanations of the creation of mankind not 2 different creation events. Also I agree with prim in regards to Cain and his wife being brother and sister. Since there were only 2 humans to start humanity their offspring would have to be married to their brother and sister. I hope this helps to clarify this issue for you.

 

[bobinfaith]

Yurii,
In Genesis 1 we are given a general look at the creation of Adam and Eve. In Genesis 2 we are given more detail about how God made them. Adam was made from the dust of the earth and then Eve was made sometime later from Adam's rib. There are 2 explanations of the creation of mankind not 2 different creation events. Also I agree with prim in regards to Cain and his wife being brother and sister. Since there were only 2 humans to start humanity their offspring would have to be married to their brother and sister. I hope this helps to clarify this issue for you.

Hello Dave F.:

Thank you for clarifying the 2 explanations of creation to all of us. One of the guessing theories in early Genesis was since everything was newly created, God was tweaking everything (working out the kinks) for later in the Old and New Testaments.

That theory is incorrect since God knows and knew what would take place. He wasn't surprised and one day will make all these things to come and the past known to us.

John 16:13, Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. - KJV

God bless you, brother.

Bob

 

[Yurii]

Yurii how long have you and your family been Christians . Upon studying the Old Testament I find both the Septuagint and Masoretic Old Testaments be essential for further study. Both have their advantages to better understanding the Old Testament. What Christian literature do you have access to in the Ukraine. I’ve read occasionally that many churches have been closed and some clergy put under government arrest. What be the truth of the matter on that

Dear Prim,

Thank you for your heartfelt questions.

Honestly, it feels like just yesterday I was stumbling in the dark, searching for something real. I can say, with a heart wide open, that my journey as a true Christian began less than a year ago. Before that, I was just going through the motions, lighting candles and asking for things, never truly understanding what it meant to walk with Christ.

The war… it shook everything. It forced me to ask the big questions about life, about meaning. And then, Jesus stepped in, in a way that changed everything. He showed me the path, and I haven't looked back. I started reading the New Testament daily, journaling, and making real changes. I gave up alcohol, cigarettes, and meat. I go to church not to ask, but to worship and learn. God has been revealing Himself to me, step by step, from the intense repentance after a 12-day fast to the daily revelations I experience now. The more I seek Him, the more He shows me. And yes, the Old Testament… it's calling to me now. I used to think the New Testament was enough, but now I see I need to understand God the Father through all His works.

Regarding your question about studying the Old Testament, I use MyBible with the Ukrainian translation and the AKJV with Strong's Numbers. They've been a real blessing. My wife and I are taking our time, not rushing, because we want to truly absorb what we read and apply it to our lives.

About the churches… it breaks my heart to see how the war has emptied them. People are fleeing, cities are deserted. I've heard stories of priests being arrested, mostly under house arrest, for supporting the other side. It's a complex situation. And you're right, there's the whole issue of administrative changes, with churches shifting from Moscow to Kyiv.

I hope I've answered your questions fully. And if you don't mind, I'd love to learn more about the Septuagint and Masoretic texts you mentioned. Could you shed some light on the differences between them and the AKJV+ I use?"

With love in Christ,
Yurii

 

[Yurii]

Good morning DEAR and PRECIOUS brother Yurii

These forums are blessed to have several pastors on site and they are truly wonderful men of God.

I am so pleased that you have found this place. GOD BLESS YOU!!!!

bobinfaith Major

Good day, In Awe of Him,

Your words touched my heart, thank you.

You know, lately, I've been seeing God's hand in everything. It's like I have an idea, I start following it, and it leads me somewhere completely unexpected, somewhere God intended. This forum is a perfect example. I stumbled upon it by chance, for a different reason, but I see now that God brought me here for fellowship, for strengthening my faith, for spiritual growth.

It's a blessing to be here.

With love in Christ,
Yurii

 

[bobinfaith]

Dear Prim,

Thank you for your heartfelt questions.

Honestly, it feels like just yesterday I was stumbling in the dark, searching for something real. I can say, with a heart wide open, that my journey as a true Christian began less than a year ago. Before that, I was just going through the motions, lighting candles and asking for things, never truly understanding what it meant to walk with Christ.

The war… it shook everything. It forced me to ask the big questions about life, about meaning. And then, Jesus stepped in, in a way that changed everything. He showed me the path, and I haven't looked back. I started reading the New Testament daily, journaling, and making real changes. I gave up alcohol, cigarettes, and meat. I go to church not to ask, but to worship and learn. God has been revealing Himself to me, step by step, from the intense repentance after a 12-day fast to the daily revelations I experience now. The more I seek Him, the more He shows me. And yes, the Old Testament… it's calling to me now. I used to think the New Testament was enough, but now I see I need to understand God the Father through all His works.

Regarding your question about studying the Old Testament, I use MyBible with the Ukrainian translation and the AKJV with Strong's Numbers. They've been a real blessing. My wife and I are taking our time, not rushing, because we want to truly absorb what we read and apply it to our lives.

About the churches… it breaks my heart to see how the war has emptied them. People are fleeing, cities are deserted. I've heard stories of priests being arrested, mostly under house arrest, for supporting the other side. It's a complex situation. And you're right, there's the whole issue of administrative changes, with churches shifting from Moscow to Kyiv.

I hope I've answered your questions fully. And if you don't mind, I'd love to learn more about the Septuagint and Masoretic texts you mentioned. Could you shed some light on the differences between them and the AKJV+ I use?"

With love in Christ,
Yurii

Good morning, Yurii;

You wrote an excellent testimony and thank you for sharing. We are praying for the biggest issue in your life right now, and that's your home country. But we have faith that God knows and sees all, especially those who follow Him. The Lord will prevail.

We're all lifetime students of the Bible as we strive to align His teaching to our daily life and circumstances. There is only one motive for asking and asking questions about Scripture, text and cross references to God's Word. If that one motive is to grow as a Believer, then we're on the right track.

Like the song says, "set your eyes on Jesus" a song that I personally strive for daily.

God bless you, brother, your wife and child.

 

[Prim90]

Dear Prim,

Thank you for your heartfelt questions.

Honestly, it feels like just yesterday I was stumbling in the dark, searching for something real. I can say, with a heart wide open, that my journey as a true Christian began less than a year ago. Before that, I was just going through the motions, lighting candles and asking for things, never truly understanding what it meant to walk with Christ.

The war… it shook everything. It forced me to ask the big questions about life, about meaning. And then, Jesus stepped in, in a way that changed everything. He showed me the path, and I haven't looked back. I started reading the New Testament daily, journaling, and making real changes. I gave up alcohol, cigarettes, and meat. I go to church not to ask, but to worship and learn. God has been revealing Himself to me, step by step, from the intense repentance after a 12-day fast to the daily revelations I experience now. The more I seek Him, the more He shows me. And yes, the Old Testament… it's calling to me now. I used to think the New Testament was enough, but now I see I need to understand God the Father through all His works.

Regarding your question about studying the Old Testament, I use MyBible with the Ukrainian translation and the AKJV with Strong's Numbers. They've been a real blessing. My wife and I are taking our time, not rushing, because we want to truly absorb what we read and apply it to our lives.

About the churches… it breaks my heart to see how the war has emptied them. People are fleeing, cities are deserted. I've heard stories of priests being arrested, mostly under house arrest, for supporting the other side. It's a complex situation. And you're right, there's the whole issue of administrative changes, with churches shifting from Moscow to Kyiv.

I hope I've answered your questions fully. And if you don't mind, I'd love to learn more about the Septuagint and Masoretic texts you mentioned. Could you shed some light on the differences between them and the AKJV+ I use?"

With love in Christ,
Yurii

Yurii it always most wonderful hearing upon a new testimony as yours. You say ( it feels like just yesterday I was stumbling in the dark searching for something real. ) it does seem within our darkest moments of despair for many of us that those thoughts do ring so true. And it be in those moments that the love and light of God does shine through in the darkest of foggy night enshrouding our minds being directed to his wonderful light. Thank you for sharing. I do think upon this passage . As to the war and the churches and the administrative changes that have taken place I’m sure that would be some complex. I some curious about that in how orthodoxy works in that regard. It was from the fall of Constantinople that the Holy mantle of the Orthodox Church was bestowed upon Russia though I not sure what happened when the Bolshevik commie piglets took over all those many decades ago wether the mantle moved elsewhere or remained within the reign of terror the Bolsheviks did bestow upon the monarchy and imperial mother Russia. But hopefully normality shall return at the wars end that you be enduring and diplomatic relations will be restored with church and state being seperate once more. . As to your question on the Septuagint and the Masoretic text both have strong points and inconsistencies. But when it comes to messianic prophecy with the New Testament quotations referring back to Christ in the Old Testament it seems that the Septuagint does line up much closer with New Testament quotations It seems that the Septuagint once had a more reliable access to a more reliable original Masoretic text then the one that we have today at least in regards to messianic fulfilment. Yurii wishing you and family a safe journey in your part of the world today. God bless Prim

 

[Origen]

And if you don't mind, I'd love to learn more about the and Masoretic texts you mentioned. Could you shed some light on the differences between them and the AKJV+ I use?"

The Septuagint (aka LXX) is a 3rd century B.C. Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. The Masoretic text is the traditional Hebrew text of Old Testament supplied with diacritical marks to enable correct pronunciation. The Masoretes were a group of Jewish scribe who compiled their work into one standardize text.

The AKJV, as you refer to it, is a translation of the Hebrew text of the Old Testament and the Greek text of the New Testament. The translators of the KJV used the Masoretic text for the Old Testament but also consulted the Septuagint. They specifically used the Second Rabbinic Bible printed by Daniel Bomberg and edited by Yaakov ben Ḥayyim ibn Adonijah.

 

[Origen]

The Septuagint (aka LXX) is a 3rd century B.C. Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. The Masoretic text is the traditional Hebrew text of Old Testament supplied with diacritical marks to enable correct pronunciation. The Masoretes were a group of Jewish scribe who compiled their work into one standardize text.

The AKJV, as you refer to it, is a translation of the Hebrew text of the Old Testament and the Greek text of the New Testament. The translators of the KJV used the Masoretic text for the Old Testament but also consulted the Septuagint. They specifically used the Second Rabbinic Bible printed by Daniel Bomberg and edited by Yaakov ben Ḥayyim ibn Adonijah.

If anyone interested, here is a link to the Second Rabbinic Bible.

The Second Rabbinic Bible (Mikra'ot Gdolot) : Yaakov ben Hayyim : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This is the second edition of Daniel Bomberg's Mikra'ot Gdolot (prepared by Yaakov ben Hayyim.) It was published between 1524 and 1525 and allegedly became the...

archive.org

Below is a pic containing part of the text of Genesis 1. The two red arrows point to the Old Testament text. The other printed texts around the Old Testament text are (1) information provide by the masoretes concerning the Hebrew text and (2) commentary concerning the Old Testament passage by important Jewish scholars.

 

[Yurii]

Yurii it always most wonderful hearing upon a new testimony as yours. You say ( it feels like just yesterday I was stumbling in the dark searching for something real. ) it does seem within our darkest moments of despair for many of us that those thoughts do ring so true. And it be in those moments that the love and light of God does shine through in the darkest of foggy night enshrouding our minds being directed to his wonderful light. Thank you for sharing. I do think upon this passage . As to the war and the churches and the administrative changes that have taken place I’m sure that would be some complex. I some curious about that in how orthodoxy works in that regard. It was from the fall of Constantinople that the Holy mantle of the Orthodox Church was bestowed upon Russia though I not sure what happened when the Bolshevik commie piglets took over all those many decades ago wether the mantle moved elsewhere or remained within the reign of terror the Bolsheviks did bestow upon the monarchy and imperial mother Russia. But hopefully normality shall return at the wars end that you be enduring and diplomatic relations will be restored with church and state being seperate once more. View attachment 12547. As to your question on the Septuagint and the Masoretic text both have strong points and inconsistencies. But when it comes to messianic prophecy with the New Testament quotations referring back to Christ in the Old Testament it seems that the Septuagint does line up much closer with New Testament quotations It seems that the Septuagint once had a more reliable access to a more reliable original Masoretic text then the one that we have today at least in regards to messianic fulfilment. Yurii wishing you and family a safe journey in your part of the world today. God bless Prim

If anyone interested, here is a link to the Second Rabbinic Bible.

The Second Rabbinic Bible (Mikra'ot Gdolot) : Yaakov ben Hayyim : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This is the second edition of Daniel Bomberg's Mikra'ot Gdolot (prepared by Yaakov ben Hayyim.) It was published between 1524 and 1525 and allegedly became the...

archive.org

Below is a pic containing part of the text of Genesis 1. The two red arrows point to the Old Testament text. The other printed texts around the Old Testament text are (1) information provide by the masoretes concerning the Hebrew text and (2) commentary concerning the Old Testament passage by important Jewish scholars.

Good evening, brothers and sisters,

My heart overflows with joy reading your messages. I feel myself drawing closer to Christ every day, and I'm also growing in understanding, thanks in no small part to you all.

You know, I used to think being a Christian meant simply enduring hardships and turning the other cheek. I imagined a life of passive acceptance, of quiet suffering.

But now, oh, how my perspective has shifted! I see that true Christianity is not just about mercy, kindness, love for God and others, and self-sacrifice. It's also about inner strength, courage, and unwavering conviction. Jesus himself never wavered in his faith, never yielded to sin, always stood for truth, and never feared ridicule. He possessed such incredible inner strength that, knowing what awaited him, he still pursued his mission. Yes, he was God, and his path was easier than ours, but in his human form, he suffered as we do, and he never gave up.
And turning the other cheek? That's not weakness. It's easy to respond to aggression with aggression, but to overcome anger and the desire to retaliate, or fear and the urge to flee, and instead, to calmly accept the situation—that's true strength.

But understanding this is only the beginning. We must live it, using the Book of Life, where everything is written for us: how to live, why to live, and what awaits us.

I'm grateful I didn't miss God's last chance. My soul yearns to share this precious knowledge with others, to ignite the same spark in their hearts. It would be utterly selfish to confine this gift to my own family. No, this truth is meant to be shared, to illuminate the lives of those who are still searching, still longing for a connection with the divine. I hope that I can use this newfound wisdom in my interactions with others.

With love in Christ,
Yurii

 

[bobinfaith]

If anyone interested, here is a link to the Second Rabbinic Bible.

The Second Rabbinic Bible (Mikra'ot Gdolot) : Yaakov ben Hayyim : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This is the second edition of Daniel Bomberg's Mikra'ot Gdolot (prepared by Yaakov ben Hayyim.) It was published between 1524 and 1525 and allegedly became the...

archive.org

Below is a pic containing part of the text of Genesis 1. The two red arrows point to the Old Testament text. The other printed texts around the Old Testament text are (1) information provide by the masoretes concerning the Hebrew text and (2) commentary concerning the Old Testament passage by important Jewish scholars.

Good morning, Origen;

It's always good to read your posts in fellowship with you and learning. Have you studied Hebrew and Greek in the past and what are your thoughts of the various "translations" (to call it that) of the Hebrew books, Torah, Talmud, Tanakh and the Christian Greek Scriptures or New Testament, etc...?

I struggled with Hebrew and Greek studies because it challenged me in the academic part but I feel there are findings in these studies that one would not normally find in the Christian Bible. Does this take away the credibility of one or the other? I don't think so but rather I look at all as cross references to God's Word.

God bless you, brother, and thank you for sharing.

Bob

 

[Origen]

Good morning, Origen;

Have you studied Hebrew and Greek in the past

I have academic training in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic.

what are your thoughts of the various "translations" (to call it that) of the Hebrew books, Torah, Talmud, Tanakh and the Christian Greek Scriptures or New Testament, etc...?

You kind of lumped several things together that overlap to some degree.

(1) The Torah is the Law, the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Old Testament.

(2) The Talmud is a commentary on the Mishnah (i.e. the so called oral law of the Jews).

(3) The term Tanakh is an acronym, made from the first Hebrew letter of each the three traditional divisions: Torah (i.e. Law), Nevi'im (i.e. prophets), and Ketuvim (i.e. Writings). Thus the word TaNaKh. This would include the whole of the Old Testament as we know it.

I struggled with Hebrew and Greek studies because it challenged me in the academic part but I feel there are findings in these studies that one would not normally find in the Christian Bible.

I feel the languages can provide nuance. My signature states "Exegesis precedes theology!" Unless one understand what a text states and means within its own historical and cultural context, then no theology cannot reflect the intent of the author.

Does this take away the credibility of one or the other? I don't think so but rather I look at all as cross references to God's Word.

I don't think so either. It is really just a matter of what each individual enjoys and prefers. I really enjoy the academic side of study.