God's Word ----all or part?

F

Fish Catcher Jim

If God is the same Today and yesterday and Tomorrow How can we pick and choose what is to be walked out and what is not to be walked out or lived ?
I have beed told by many theological type Christians over and over that this is not for us or that is not truth but just metaphore or this is not truth and this means that and that means this.

It seems to me when God shows me something in His word about His charactor then I can believe it. So how can any one pick and choose what is for us and what is not and claim to be correct ?

Thank you for you thoughts
Blerssings
Jim
 
I'm not sure I follow you, Jim. Can you give an example? Of course, the whole word of God is truth. There are some things in the Old Testament that we don't have to abide by any longer (e.g. eating shellfish, sacrifices) because of Jesus, but other than that, the whole Bible is our guide - every word of it.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
If God is the same Today and yesterday and Tomorrow How can we pick and choose what is to be walked out and what is not to be walked out or lived ?
I have beed told by many theological type Christians over and over that this is not for us or that is not truth but just metaphore or this is not truth and this means that and that means this.

It seems to me when God shows me something in His word about His charactor then I can believe it. So how can any one pick and choose what is for us and what is not and claim to be correct ?

Thank you for you thoughts
Blerssings
Jim
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It is simple - remember the story about the itchy ears. Those who are not willing to submit to God the almighty, fall in that category.
They want to seem like highly religious, but actually do what they want, thus not submitting to God.
It happens more and more. But to choose to do what you want to do, you will have to sacrifice the word of God to accomplish that.
And so come to be your story above.
 
Hmmmm, I see. So it's like what I say to my wife, for example, when I hear a church advocating something that I know goes against God's word - "Do they just skip over that part of the Bible on Sundays?" She hasn't had a good answer for me yet. :-/

In all seriousness though, the excuses that I have heard to justify it is something to the effect of, "Well, these are modern times and things have changed. That is no longer relevant any more." Of course, God is the same yestrday, today and tomorrow - but I guess they skip over that too.
 
JohnP said:
Hmmmm, I see. So it's like what I say to my wife, for example, when I hear a church advocating something that I know goes against God's word - "Do they just skip over that part of the Bible on Sundays?" She hasn't had a good answer for me yet. :-/
Click to expand...
That sounds right, but what is scary is what happens to the sheep tied to that pen. Some are so deceived that one cannot get them away from the lies and wrongful teaching. It's sad.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
If God is the same Today and yesterday and Tomorrow How can we pick and choose what is to be walked out and what is not to be walked out or lived ?
Click to expand...

I've had to confront many of my initial assumptions about many scriptures as I've grown in my relationship with God.

For example, let's look at a verse like Leviticus 20:10:
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

So if I just read out that verse, and then said to you, "how can any one pick and choose what is for us and what is not and claim to be correct," what would you say to me?

Perhaps, then, we can alter the question to provoke a slightly different discussion:
Instead of "How can we pick and choose what is to be walked out and what is not to be walked out or lived?" maybe we could instead ask, "How can we correctly discern how to read scripture," or, "How do we confront our initial assumptions about scripture and be led by the Spirit toward revelation" or perhaps, "How does one rightly divide scripture (2 Tim 2:15)?"
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
If God is the same Today and yesterday and Tomorrow How can we pick and choose what is to be walked out and what is not to be walked out or lived ?
I have beed told by many theological type Christians over and over that this is not for us or that is not truth but just metaphore or this is not truth and this means that and that means this.

It seems to me when God shows me something in His word about His charactor then I can believe it. So how can any one pick and choose what is for us and what is not and claim to be correct ?

Thank you for you thoughts
Blerssings
Jim
Click to expand...

I don't think we have to concern ourselves with picking and choosing what we walk out or live out by faith. Our faith walk doesn't contain options. We walk by God's grace, and not by the law. The law kills, but grace gives life. By God's grace we are brought into relationship with Him and we are taught and led by Holy Spirit. When we heed Him, the Shepherd's voice, and follow Him, we are always safe and well cared for. We can trust Him to bring to our minds the wonderful layers of truth, even in metaphorical contexts that all pertain to our particular life. He is a very personal God and loves us so dearly, ministering to us in ways that only our individual hearts and personalities can appreciate. What intimacy!!

After posting this I have to add this photo...it's all that comes to my mind!

 
If a born again Christian does something wrong does God the Father correct, chastise, and even punish us for it? Oh yes he does big time. In fact if we are without chastisement we do not belong to him.

Heb_12:8.. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Where do our actions come from? They come from what we believe. Our actions are tied to what we believe. If we believe wrong then our actions will be wrong also. When our Heavenly Father chastises us it is because we are believing something that is not right, and did not come the Spirit of God.

Not only do we have God who corrects us, but Satan himself comes to steal the Word after it is sown in the heart of the believer by bringing fiery trials, and tribulations in an attempt to dislodge it from taking root. Remember this scripture that say......

1Co 3:11.. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12.. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13.. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14.. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15.. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The only "foundation" that can be laid is Jesus Christ. Man's doctrine or any of man's logical cognitive interpretation of scriptures is not from Christ or the anointing. It is called wood, hay, and stubble, and it will be burned up by fire when it is tested of what sort it is.
This testing happens on this earth, in this life!! Not someday in the future.

The Apostle Peter tells a group of "baby" Christians about this fire process when he said......

1Pe 4:12.. Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13.. But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

What ever we believe as truth will be tested by fire to see if it is really truth or just a lie. If it is a lie we loose the reward we thought we would get. If it is really truth from the Spirit of God we will have total victory, and we receive a reward which is what the truth revealed to do!!
We have Satan who comes to kill, steal, and to destroy what we have because of the Word, and we have God the Father who corrects us from wrong actions based on our wrong believing.
God judges us while we are living on this earth, but why?

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

God can not judge this world and condemn it for doing things if his Church is doing the exact same things!! The Church must be judge now before God can judge the world.

1Co 11:32.. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

If we find our self's believing a lie (which is a sin) the Lord will bring correction to his Church, and that will give the Devil an opening to bring a fiery trial in attempt to kill, steal, and or destroy.
 
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Roads said:
I've had to confront many of my initial assumptions about many scriptures as I've grown in my relationship with God.

For example, let's look at a verse like Leviticus 20:10:
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

So if I just read out that verse, and then said to you, "how can any one pick and choose what is for us and what is not and claim to be correct," what would you say to me?

Perhaps, then, we can alter the question to provoke a slightly different discussion:
Instead of "How can we pick and choose what is to be walked out and what is not to be walked out or lived?" maybe we could instead ask, "How can we correctly discern how to read scripture," or, "How do we confront our initial assumptions about scripture and be led by the Spirit toward revelation" or perhaps, "How does one rightly divide scripture (2 Tim 2:15)?"
Click to expand...


True but a little common sense would not hurt either. Things such as your example are not at all what I am talking about.

When people pick and choose what is for us and what is not to fit their beliefs is foolishness.
examples not just from here but from 3 other forums.
Example.......The curse or the blessing found in Duet. Many say that is not for us but only for the Israelites then.
Been told if you did choose life and blessing then the curse also must be taken and Grace does not apply.

Been told hell means below the deep sea and so on.
That when the abundant life Jesus came that we might have is not for us or only for a spiritual this or that and so on.

That falling from grace in Galatains means people lose their salvation and when it speaks of those who tasted of the goodness of God and turn away can not be brought back means they are hell bound and can not be saved.

It is all this theological mumbo jumbo that I am talking about. These same peole knock ministries and say that is Gods will and walking in love towards them is a lie. I have come to place where I am fed up with People claiming to be Christians and insit THEIR way is the only way and get all worked up when you disagree or show them something different.

Bottom line.........if it is in the written word of God then it is there for a reason and not for filler to make the book big. People say God loves satan and we have to too. Grrr that one is such alie that I can not believe any one would even say it. This is the junk I am speaking about.
 
CCW95A said:
If a born again Christian does something wrong does God the Father correct, chastise, and even punish us for it? Oh yes he does big time. In fact if we are without chastisement we do not belong to him.

Heb_12:8.. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Where do our actions come from? They come from what we believe. Our actions are tied to what we believe. If we believe wrong then our actions will be wrong also. When our Heavenly Father chastises us it is because we are believing something that is not right, and did not come the Spirit of God.

Not only do we have God who corrects us, but Satan himself comes to steal the Word after it is sown in the heart of the believer by bringing fiery trials, and tribulations in an attempt to dislodge it from taking root. Remember this scripture that say......

1Co 3:11.. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12.. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13.. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14.. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15.. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The only "foundation" that can be laid is Jesus Christ. Man's doctrine or any of man's logical cognitive interpretation of scriptures is not from Christ or the anointing. It is called wood, hay, and stubble, and it will be burned up by fire when it is tested of what sort it is.
This testing happens on this earth, in this life!! Not someday in the future.

The Apostle Peter tells a group of "baby" Christians about this fire process when he said......

1Pe 4:12.. Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13.. But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

What ever we believe as truth will be tested by fire to see if it is really truth or just a lie. If it is a lie we loose the reward we thought we would get. If it is really truth from the Spirit of God we will have total victory, and we receive a reward which is what the truth revealed to do!!
We have Satan who comes to kill, steal, and to destroy what we have because of the Word, and we have God the Father who corrects us from wrong actions based on our wrong believing.
God judges us while we are living on this earth, but why?

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

God can not judge this world and condemn it for doing things if his Church is doing the exact same things!! The Church must be judge now before God can judge the world.

1Co 11:32.. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

If we find our self's believing a lie (which is a sin) the Lord will bring correction to his Church, and that will give the Devil an opening to bring a fiery trial in attempt to kill, steal, and or destroy.
Click to expand...

Hello Brother,
I want to correct a typo here..........
Devil is spelled devil ..........Brother I wont even use that name to start a line for he gets no caps in my book. ; )

Blessings Brother Curtis
Jim
 
I think the big danger and disservice that is done to the body of Christ is when we fail to the take the word of God as a whole(both the old and new testament together). So much confusion and heresy is derived from taking scripture out of context. It is not only necessary to consider the immediate context of the verse(s) in question, but also consider how it relates to the bible as a whole. This is especially helpful when attempting to understand the old testament...the new testament helps us understand the old testament, but the opposite is also true because the new testament came out of the old testament. This understanding helps us see what still applies to us as believers and what no longer applies because it was fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
 
@Roads ,

Hello Roads,
This is where I am going as you said about discernment.
What has happened to seeking Revelation from His word or Spiritual Understanding ?
What has happened to the reverence of Gods written word ?

When Born again Believers feel that the word "FORGIVENESS" found in Mark 11:25 is not important any more it sets off alarms Brother.
When walking in Love and Integrity has taken a back seat to things is burdens me.
When Christians go around bashing ministries for other ministries down falls and say things that clearly are not true about them it bothers me very much.
When Christians take the scriptures talking about false teachers and run with it falsely accusing this ministry and that ministry it saddens me.

No place are we told to do such as thing. When people can read say like 1 john and come away with nothing about judging others then it is a sad day. These are the things I am talking about. Believers taking the end time and the false deception and saying ministries and pastors today are those who will be the ones are treading on thin ice. When the way the enemy works is over looked and thrown out as , oh you better not talk about that says one thing.

Far to many Christians have ignored the ways of the enemy and have aloud him to operate in the shadows and spread his lies setting him self up for the time to come. To think that our enemy the devil does not have a strategy is walking blind. The devil has been working 24/7/365 and knows what he is doing. It is Christians that fail to understand.

These are the things that I am talking about.
Have a blessed day
Jim
 
Mykuhl said:
I think the big danger and disservice that is done to the body of Christ is when we fail to the take the word of God as a whole(both the old and new testament together). So much confusion and heresy is derived from taking scripture out of context. It is not only necessary to consider the immediate context of the verse(s) in question, but also consider how it relates to the bible as a whole. This is especially helpful when attempting to understand the old testament...the new testament helps us understand the old testament, but the opposite is also true because the new testament came out of the old testament. This understanding helps us see what still applies to us as believers and what no longer applies because it was fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

Mykuhl Hello,
Exactly and the problem that leads to all this claiming heresy these days are those who study the written word of God with human reasoning and understanding. Man made ways of reading will never work. The hidden truths of His written word are hidden from the world or unsaved or carnal mined christians which are christians still thinking like the world or their old ways.

Spiritual understanding brings revelation unto His written word and this takes spending time in His word and also walking in the way His word tells us too. You can not walk how ever you want or chose what is for you and then expect to gain spiritual wisdom. It just does not work that way. It is as if there are a ton of modern day Pharisee's pushing their Christian beliefs.

Thank you for you input and looking forward to more.
Blessings ...OBTW Welcome to CFS !!
Jim
 
You are welcome Jim and I agree with what you just said.

The Spirit teaches us the the things of God, he is our teacher and revelator. This it is supported by 1John 2:26-27. Not to say that we cannot and should not be taught by others(after all John is teaching us here) but that it is not indeed needed.
 
You are welcome Jim and I agree with what you just said.

The Spirit teaches us the the things of God, he is our teacher and revelator. This it is supported by 1John 2:26-27. Not to say that we cannot and should not be taught by others(after all John is teaching us here) but that it is not indeed needed.
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Hello Mykuhl,
I agree and it is wonderful when the Father places those who teach His word in your life for you know you are going in the right direction.
Blessings
Jim
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
I have come to place where I am fed up with People claiming to be Christians and insit THEIR way is the only way and get all worked up when you disagree or show them something different.
Click to expand...

Thanks for expanding on that Jim, I think we're generally on the same page here.

If someone is deliberately ignoring a clear thing in scripture (i.e., they are aware they are ignoring scripture), that's a strategy that could stem from a few different problems. I expect that generally, it would either be that they don't believe that the Bible is authoritative, that it's too overwhelming for them to confront some of their own preconceptions, or possibly that the process of Biblical interpretation itself is too overwhelming (for example, maybe they're not sure if they are trusting "scripture" or trusting "their pastor's interpretation of scripture"). My experience that the most effective (but slowest!) approach to people like this (which is all of us at some point) is to learn the reason that individual has for ignoring scripture, and help them work through those issues. Obviously that takes a lot of time, because it means developing the relationship to a point where there is vulnerability.

There's another possible complication too, which is that they could be getting something out of misreading scripture. For example, they could be getting positive recognition from other people, possibly in the form of labels or an official position in their church, or it could generally just be making them feel good that they've "figured it all out" (i.e., and you haven't). That kind of pride is probably the hardest thing to confront, and I confess that I haven't had much success in helping anyone move past that point. For example, I knew a school chaplain/religious studies teacher in a school that insisted he be referred to as "Doctor Reverend" every time you said his name to reflect his training and position. Such a person who claims authority is very difficult to discuss anything with, because they've already decided that they are the teacher, and you are the student.

I have trouble being patient with certain outlooks about certain scriptures, but it has helped me to keep in mind that people's beliefs are often anchors of security for them, and it takes a lot of bravery to entertain doubt. Doubting your preconceptions to let scriptures challenge them is an important part of reading the Bible, and it can be very scary. Most people probably need some experiences strengthening their faith by witnessing God come through for them before they can really get to a point where they feel safe trusting scripture. So I personally feel that gentleness, empathy and patience are the best strategies in helping people trust scripture, but I do share your frustrations, and I'm probably not always reflecting my own advice, because patience is hard! Anyway, thanks for your explanation, appreciate it.

Gal 6:1
Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness
 
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Fish Catcher Jim said:
If God is the same Today and yesterday and Tomorrow How can we pick and choose what is to be walked out and what is not to be walked out or lived ?
I have beed told by many theological type Christians over and over that this is not for us or that is not truth but just metaphore or this is not truth and this means that and that means this.

It seems to me when God shows me something in His word about His charactor then I can believe it. So how can any one pick and choose what is for us and what is not and claim to be correct ?

Thank you for you thoughts
Blerssings
Jim
Click to expand...
I have seen people who say OT is no longer relevant. The problem is, they want Bible to mean what they want it to mean. So they have their own interpretation of NT and say OT is no longer relevant. Because they cannot reconcile OT with their understanding. I see that as one of the predominant reasons for people to pick and choose parts of Bible.
 
Roads said:
Thanks for expanding on that Jim, I think we're generally on the same page here.


If someone is deliberately ignoring a clear thing in scripture (i.e., they are aware they are ignoring scripture), that's a strategy that could stem from a few different problems. I expect that generally, it would either be that they don't believe that the Bible is authoritative, that it's too overwhelming for them to confront some of their own preconceptions, or possibly that the process of Biblical interpretation itself is too overwhelming (for example, maybe they're not sure if they are trusting "scripture" or trusting "their pastor's interpretation of scripture"). My experience that the most effective (but slowest!) approach to people like this (which is all of us at some point) is to learn the reason that individual has for ignoring scripture, and help them work through those issues. Obviously that takes a lot of time, because it means developing the relationship to a point where there is vulnerability.


There's another possible complication too, which is that they could be getting something out of misreading scripture. For example, they could be getting positive recognition from other people, possibly in the form of labels or an official position in their church, or it could generally just be making them feel good that they've "figured it all out" (i.e., and you haven't). That kind of pride is probably the hardest thing to confront, and I confess that I haven't had much success in helping anyone move past that point. For example, I knew a school chaplain/religious studies teacher in a school that insisted he be referred to as "Doctor Reverend" every time you said his name to reflect his training and position. Such a person who claims authority is very difficult to discuss anything with, because they've already decided that they are the teacher, and you are the student.


I have trouble being patient with certain outlooks about certain scriptures, but it has helped me to keep in mind that people's beliefs are often anchors of security for them, and it takes a lot of bravery to entertain doubt. Doubting your preconceptions to let scriptures challenge them is an important part of reading the Bible, and it can be very scary. Most people probably need some experiences strengthening their faith by witnessing God come through for them before they can really get to a point where they feel safe trusting scripture. So I personally feel that gentleness, empathy and patience are the best strategies in helping people trust scripture, but I do share your frustrations, and I'm probably not always reflecting my own advice, because patience is hard! Anyway, thanks for your explanation, appreciate it.


Gal 6:1

Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness
Click to expand...


Hi Roads,

I do agree with what you are saying and there is also another type of Christians to who use understanding through everything other then the spiritual side. These people tend to get real rude and mean when you do not except their views. ( Lack of the Spirit ) or walking in the spirit. They tend to shun things such as walking in Love and in Forgiveness. it is not something vital or important in their eyes.

As they study in this way they get this head knowledge which produces no fruits of value.
They claim scriptures in their views and attack anyone and especially ministries that do not say the same as them. They are cruel hearted towards the brethren and dismiss commands of GOD as not for us today or every one has taken it out of context.

They bring new meaning to the scriptures from all their books and even have told me that using a KJ bible is one of the reasons I do not understand scripture. This bunch I am talking about is not just a few here and there. It is a rising of them and the inter net is full of them and the forums out there are full of them and this means that the unsaved are hearing this as well as new believers.

I started this thread because I was very disappointed in those calling them selves Christians and claiming how Godly they are and how every one out side of believing them is wrong and speaks of false teaching. It is as wolves calling sheep wolves. It really bothers me and burdens my heart very much.
So Roads my Brother, this is where i was coming from in this thread.
Blessings
Jim
 
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