He shall rule the nations with a rod of iron (Rev.19)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Many have said that this is future because when did the Lord strike the nations? I see where he destroyed most of Israel, but in history, I don't read where he struck any other nation since then.
It's certainly because of timing. The "nations" being spoken of in the judgment scenes are from old. (O.T old)

In Genesis 10, the table of nations, Yahweh divides Noah's descendants into 70 different nations.

These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood. Genesis 10:32 ESV

Chapter 10 of Genesis is the backdrop for Moses' statement in Deuteronomy 32:8 that Yahweh is responsible for the creation and placement of the nations.
the Feast of Booths as a reminder to Israel of her mission to the nations of the world. This is the reason 70 bulls were sacrificed during the feast. There was one bull for each of the 70 nations which originally composed the nations of the world before the tower of Babel when Yahweh turned these nations over to lesser gods and called Israel to be His people. But I also pictures Israel's deliverance, but they sacrificed the 70 bulls for the deliverance of the nations to which they were called to be a light.


he says: "It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth." Isaiah 49:6 ESV

Israel was to be a light to the nations.
The Feast of Tabernacles is a reminder to Israel of her mission to the nations of the world. This is the reason 70 bulls were sacrificed during the feast. There was one bull for each of the 70 nations which originally composed the nations of the world before the tower of Babel when Yahweh turned these nations over to lesser gods and called Israel to be His people. But it also is a picture of deliverance. It pictures Israel's deliverance, but they sacrificed the 70 bulls for the deliverance of the nations to which they were called to be a light.

he says: "It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth." Isaiah 49:6 ESV

Israel was to be a light to the nations.
You shall rejoice in your feast, you and your son and your daughter, your male servant and your female servant, the Levite, the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow who are within your towns. For seven days you shall keep the feast to the LORD your God at the place that the LORD will choose, because the LORD your God will bless you in all your produce and in all the work of your hands, so that you will be altogether joyful. Deuteronomy 16:14-15 ESV

Please notice that everyone, including Gentiles (sojourner), were commanded to rejoice during Sukkot. The word "sojourner" here is ger which means "a foreigner:—alien, sojourner, stranger." This is a non-Israelite, a goy, worshiping Yahweh like a native. He has attached himself to Israel and is worshiping Yahweh. So non-Israelites ("Gentiles"), could worship Yahweh, but only through Israel.


The Feast of Booths was also called (the Feast of the Nations) by the Israelites because it was also for all the nations. During the dedication of the first Temple, which took place during Sukkot, the foreigner is given a special blessing (1 Kings 8:41-43).


"Likewise, when a foreigner, who is not of your people Israel, comes from a far country for your name's sake (for they shall hear of your great name and your mighty hand, and of your outstretched arm), when he comes and prays toward this house, hear in heaven your dwelling place and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to you, in order that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your people Israel, and that they may know that this house that I have built is called by your name. 1 Kings 8:41-43 ESV
(all bold type from the BereanBible Church Bible studies)
 
Hi harriet,

That is very interesting. The Lord`s Feasts are an overview of His purposes from Calvary to the New Heavens and New Earth. And they were holy convocations, rehearsals of what God had done for the nation of Israel and yet to have a future fulfillment. (Lev. 23: 1 & 2)

And how wonderful that God has also included the nations who learnt to walk in His ways. (Micah 4: 1 - 3)

`Rejoice, O Gentiles (nations) with His people, for He will avenge the blood of His servants and render vengeance to His adversaries; He will provide atonement for His land and His people.` (Deut. 32: 43)
 

crossnote

Helper
Staff member
Helper
Israel was to be a light to the nations and so is the Church (Mt 28:19-20), but somewhere, somehow, someone wasn't listening...

Come quickly, all you surrounding nations; gather yourselves. Bring down your warriors there, LORD. Let the nations be roused and come to the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit down to judge all the surrounding nations. Swing the sickle because the harvest is ripe. Come and trample the grapes because the winepress is full; the wine vats overflow because the wickedness of the nations is extreme. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. (Joe 3:11-14)
 
Hi harriet,

That is very interesting. The Lord`s Feasts are an overview of His purposes from Calvary to the New Heavens and New Earth. And they were holy convocations, rehearsals of what God had done for the nation of Israel and yet to have a future fulfillment. (Lev. 23: 1 & 2)

And how wonderful that God has also included the nations who learnt to walk in His ways. (Micah 4: 1 - 3)

`Rejoice, O Gentiles (nations) with His people, for He will avenge the blood of His servants and render vengeance to His adversaries; He will provide atonement for His land and His people.` (Deut. 32: 43)
Here's where I believe the "future" fulfillment of the O.T. Feast of Tabernacles is. (the type)
"The Feast of Tabernacles was to celebrate and commemorate (1) The end of the wanderings in the desert of the children of Israel and (2) a celebration of their inheritance of and entry into Canaan—the Promised Land.

"The anti-typical fulfillment of these feasts came at the end of the 40-year transition period (A.D. 30-70) when the Old Covenant came to an end, the New Covenant was fully consummated, and the inheritance of the New Heavens and the New Earth arrived (we "tabernacle there with God"). Booths depict the final harvest as well as the final rest. Remember that this was a 7-day feast with a Sabbath on the eighth day. Why was that Sabbath at the end of the Feast? It pictures REST! Yeshua the Christ is our Sabbath rest. He fulfilled the Old Covenant type. We, as believers, rest totally and completely in Him." " BereanBibleChurch."
 
Here's where I believe the "future" fulfillment of the O.T. Feast of Tabernacles is. (the type)
"The Feast of Tabernacles was to celebrate and commemorate (1) The end of the wanderings in the desert of the children of Israel and (2) a celebration of their inheritance of and entry into Canaan—the Promised Land.

"The anti-typical fulfillment of these feasts came at the end of the 40-year transition period (A.D. 30-70) when the Old Covenant came to an end, the New Covenant was fully consummated, and the inheritance of the New Heavens and the New Earth arrived (we "tabernacle there with God"). Booths depict the final harvest as well as the final rest. Remember that this was a 7-day feast with a Sabbath on the eighth day. Why was that Sabbath at the end of the Feast? It pictures REST! Yeshua the Christ is our Sabbath rest. He fulfilled the Old Covenant type. We, as believers, rest totally and completely in Him." " BereanBibleChurch."
Yes we look to the Lord as our Sabbath rest, however Israel as yet has not had that worked out for them.

`And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles. `(Zech. 14: 16)
 
Many have said that this is future because when did the Lord strike the nations? I see where he destroyed most of Israel, but in history, I don't read where he struck any other nation since then.
It's certainly because of timing. The "nations" being spoken of in the judgment scenes are from old. (O.T old)

In Genesis 10, the table of nations, Yahweh divides Noah's descendants into 70 different nations.



Chapter 10 of Genesis is the backdrop for Moses' statement in Deuteronomy 32:8 that Yahweh is responsible for the creation and placement of the nations.
the Feast of Booths as a reminder to Israel of her mission to the nations of the world. This is the reason 70 bulls were sacrificed during the feast. There was one bull for each of the 70 nations which originally composed the nations of the world before the tower of Babel when Yahweh turned these nations over to lesser gods and called Israel to be His people. But I also pictures Israel's deliverance, but they sacrificed the 70 bulls for the deliverance of the nations to which they were called to be a light.




Israel was to be a light to the nations.
The Feast of Tabernacles is a reminder to Israel of her mission to the nations of the world. This is the reason 70 bulls were sacrificed during the feast. There was one bull for each of the 70 nations which originally composed the nations of the world before the tower of Babel when Yahweh turned these nations over to lesser gods and called Israel to be His people. But it also is a picture of deliverance. It pictures Israel's deliverance, but they sacrificed the 70 bulls for the deliverance of the nations to which they were called to be a light.



Israel was to be a light to the nations.


Please notice that everyone, including Gentiles (sojourner), were commanded to rejoice during Sukkot. The word "sojourner" here is ger which means "a foreigner:—alien, sojourner, stranger." This is a non-Israelite, a goy, worshiping Yahweh like a native. He has attached himself to Israel and is worshiping Yahweh. So non-Israelites ("Gentiles"), could worship Yahweh, but only through Israel.


The Feast of Booths was also called (the Feast of the Nations) by the Israelites because it was also for all the nations. During the dedication of the first Temple, which took place during Sukkot, the foreigner is given a special blessing (1 Kings 8:41-43).



(all bold type from the BereanBible Church Bible studies)

I am not sure what you are asking. Are you saying that Revelation 19 is in the past and not yet to happen??? Can you please be a little more specific.

Revelation 19:15...........
“And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

This Scripture describes a "Future" devastating show of force as Jesus comes from heaven to earth to defeat His enemies and rule the nations. This is a violent and dramatic event evidenced by the verbs “strike,” “rule,” and “tread,” and the words “the fierce wrath of God.” His first coming primarily involved Jesus’ role as Lamb and Suffering Servant (see Acts 3:18). But the second coming emphasizes Jesus’ role as the conquering Warrior-King and Judge.


Rev. 19 indicates that Jesus will “strike down the nations.” The Greek term patasso means to “strike” or “beat” and reveals a decisive defeat of God’s enemies. Since the nations of the earth are in rebellion and will still be in rebellion before the 2nd Coming against God this statement can only be that it awaits future fulfillment.

Then the words “He will rule them” reveal a coming rule of Jesus over the nations. The word poimaino means to “rule” or “shepherd.”

Now as for God striking other nations......EVERY nation in history has at one time been judged and stricken by God.

Remember Job 12:23 ............
"He makes nations great and destroys them; He enlarges nations, then disperses them. He makes nations great, and destroys them; he enlarges nations, and disperses them. He builds up nations, and he destroys them. He expands nations, and he abandons them."

Civilizations come and go, and governments rise and fall. Because our Creator loves people, He also blesses each nation with a span of time so it might prosper and do well, but this blessing ends when a nation becomes degenerate, rebellious, and unfit for self-rule. When God determines that extended mercy for a nation has no redeeming effect, He marginalizes or destroys that nation.

Then remember.....Israel was never faithful to God. They never fulfilled the promises God made to them. That is still yet in their future and THAT is what the 7 year Tribulation Peroid is about.
 
I am not sure what you are asking. Are you saying that Revelation 19 is in the past and not yet to happen??? Can you please be a little more specific.

Revelation 19:15...........
“And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

This Scripture describes a "Future" devastating show of force as Jesus comes from heaven to earth to defeat His enemies and rule the nations. This is a violent and dramatic event evidenced by the verbs “strike,” “rule,” and “tread,” and the words “the fierce wrath of God.” His first coming primarily involved Jesus’ role as Lamb and Suffering Servant (see Acts 3:18). But the second coming emphasizes Jesus’ role as the conquering Warrior-King and Judge.


Rev. 19 indicates that Jesus will “strike down the nations.” The Greek term patasso means to “strike” or “beat” and reveals a decisive defeat of God’s enemies. Since the nations of the earth are in rebellion and will still be in rebellion before the 2nd Coming against God this statement can only be that it awaits future fulfillment.

Then the words “He will rule them” reveal a coming rule of Jesus over the nations. The word poimaino means to “rule” or “shepherd.”

Now as for God striking other nations......EVERY nation in history has at one time been judged and stricken by God.

Remember Job 12:23 ............
"He makes nations great and destroys them; He enlarges nations, then disperses them. He makes nations great, and destroys them; he enlarges nations, and disperses them. He builds up nations, and he destroys them. He expands nations, and he abandons them."

Civilizations come and go, and governments rise and fall. Because our Creator loves people, He also blesses each nation with a span of time so it might prosper and do well, but this blessing ends when a nation becomes degenerate, rebellious, and unfit for self-rule. When God determines that extended mercy for a nation has no redeeming effect, He marginalizes or destroys that nation.

Then remember.....Israel was never faithful to God. They never fulfilled the promises God made to them. That is still yet in their future and THAT is what the 7 year Tribulation Peroid is about.
I believe it is past. He already judged the nations in AD 70.
I will put the same question to you as to Marilyn C.

Why do you think God is not finished with Israel? Show scriptural support please.
 
I believe it is past. He already judged the nations in AD 70.
I will put the same question to you as to Marilyn C.

Why do you think God is not finished with Israel? Show scriptural support please.

Harriet.....whether it is Full or Partial Preterist, it is just not possible.....IMHO.

There are many many reasons why Preterism is not valid. The 1st one to come to my mind is that The Tribulation is described by Jesus "as a time of such distress, that there was never anything like it before, nor will there be again."

He said that if it had not been cut short, no life would have been saved. The tribulation that Israel endured in 70AD, though it was horrendous for them, cannot be construed as a global event? Furthermore, if that was it, then there would not have been any event occurring afterwards, that could compare or cause more suffering. However, in the 20th Century alone, there were two world wars, where the toll of death and destruction was much greater. Fifty million died in World War II, not to mention the horrendous barbarism of the holocaust, and the Nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Honestly, such a claim is really rather, shall I say......challenging.

I can give you many more if you need them.

Is God through with Israel??????? NO! Who siad He was...certainly not God!

Romans 11:1-2.........
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
"God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,".
 
Yes we look to the Lord as our Sabbath rest, however Israel as yet has not had that worked out for them.

`And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles. `(Zech. 14: 16)

Yes we look to the Lord as our Sabbath rest, however Israel as yet has not had that worked out for them.

`And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles. `(Zech. 14: 16)
I asked for scriptural support from Major of why you think God is not finished with Israel. I see you have Zech.14 that you quoted, so I will counter with proof that God is not concerned with non-Messianic Jews and National Israel today.

[If the Christian saints represent both the Temple and the sacrifices performed during the Feast of Tabernacles, what about the pilgrimage aspect of this feast? During the Feast of Tabernacles, the Jewish people were expected to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in order to celebrate this feast. As explained in the commentary on Revelation, the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21 and 22 is the Christian church. Thus this pilgrimage aspect of the Feast of Tabernacles in which Jews were expected to celebrate this feast in Jerusalem is no longer necessary because the Christian church is the New Jerusalem. Therefore, because the Christian saints are both the new temple of God and the New Jerusalem and their lives are spiritual sacrifices to God, then the Christian saints in and of themselves fulfill all the stipulations of the Feast of Tabernacles in a spiritual sense in the new covenant age.


Zechariah 14:16-17 says that if the people of the earth do not participate in the Feast of Tabernacles they will have no rain. As explained above the Feast of Tabernacles appears to be fulfilled in the Christian church. It is interesting to note that the preponderance of all Muslim nations throughout the Middle East and North Africa are arid countries. Is the fact that these non-Christian countries have little to no rain a coincidence or could this fact be the fulfillment of these verses today?


20 On that day HOLY TO THE LORD will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the LORD’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. 21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD Almighty.

Fulfilled! Zechariah 14:20-21 Commentary: HOLY TO THE LORD was etched on the High Priest’s Forehead. This Mark of God allows entry into the Presence of God.


God created Adam and his descendants out of dirt like a potter fashioning pottery out of clay (Genesis 2:7). Thus mankind is often represented as pottery in vs. like Romans 9:21 and 2 Corinthians 4:7.


The inscription HOLY TO THE LORD was etched into a gold plate over the high priest’s forehead whenever he entered the inner sanctuary of the temple. As is stated in Hebrews 8:5, the temple sanctuary is an earthly shadow of heaven. This mark on the forehead allows access into the presence of God in heaven in the same way that it allowed the high priest to enter the presence of God in the inner sanctuary of the temple. The fact that the inscription HOLY TO THE LORD is found on the bells of the horses, the cooking pots and the sacred bowls in v. 20 suggests that these bells, cooking pots and sacred bowls ultimately represent spirits in or destined for heaven. Therefore, these two verses may be an allegorical representation of the resurrection of the saints.] REVELATIONREVOLUTION.org
 
Harriet.....whether it is Full or Partial Preterist, it is just not possible.....IMHO.

There are many many reasons why Preterism is not valid. The 1st one to come to my mind is that The Tribulation is described by Jesus "as a time of such distress, that there was never anything like it before, nor will there be again."

He said that if it had not been cut short, no life would have been saved. The tribulation that Israel endured in 70AD, though it was horrendous for them, cannot be construed as a global event? Furthermore, if that was it, then there would not have been any event occurring afterwards, that could compare or cause more suffering. However, in the 20th Century alone, there were two world wars, where the toll of death and destruction was much greater. Fifty million died in World War II, not to mention the horrendous barbarism of the holocaust, and the Nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Honestly, such a claim is really rather, shall I say......challenging.

I can give you many more if you need them.

Is God through with Israel??????? NO! Who siad He was...certainly not God!

Romans 11:1-2.........
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
"God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,".
God did not cast away all of Israel. The book of Hebrews describes it well. Heb.9: 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

When Jesus said, unless those days be cut short, no life would be saved-- that my friend is describing the 67-70AD war in Jerusalem.

Most of the Jews then rejected Christ, but God saved a remnant for His name's sake. The remnant of Israel was saved.

It's over. Jesus was the Mediator of the New Covenant.
 
God did not cast away all of Israel. The book of Hebrews describes it well. Heb.9: 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

When Jesus said, unless those days be cut short, no life would be saved-- that my friend is describing the 67-70AD war in Jerusalem.

Most of the Jews then rejected Christ, but God saved a remnant for His name's sake. The remnant of Israel was saved.

It's over. Jesus was the Mediator of the New Covenant.

As I stated.....Romans 11 says clearly that God is not finished with Israel.

You said................
"When Jesus said, unless those days be cut short, no life would be saved-- that my friend is describing the 67-70AD war in Jerusalem."

I do not agree. When we study carefully the the context and do the exegesis we see that what Jesus was referring to was the "things" He described
in the preceding verses of Matt. 24:6-15 which was War,jusgments, , pestilence, economic woes and death during the 7 year Tribulation period.

You seem to have forgotten to respond to the position I posed to you which was........
" Furthermore, if that was it, then there would not have been any event occurring afterwards, that could compare or cause more suffering. However, in the 20th Century alone, there were two world wars, where the toll of death and destruction was much greater. Fifty million died in World War II, not to mention the horrendous barbarism of the holocaust, and the Nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Honestly, such a claim is really rather, shall I say......challenging."

Here then is another position which clearly rejects the false teaching of Preterism...............

In response to the question as to what was the sign of the “end of the age,” Jesus said it was the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in Daniel.

This was confirmed by Paul, as the occasion when the Antichrist literally sits in the Holy Place in Jerusalem, and proclaims himself God. This sign is preceded, according to Jesus, by the preaching of the gospel to the whole world. How did this happen prior to 70AD, and when did the Antichrist take his seat in Jerusalem? YOU as a Preterists must say that Nero was the Antichrist. However, Nero never stood on the Temple Mount and declared himself God. He was a nutty despot, who burned Rome and used the occasion to enlarge his palace.

Now there are TWO positions which deny the Preterist false teaching. Would you care to respond to them at this time????
 
I asked for scriptural support from Major of why you think God is not finished with Israel. I see you have Zech.14 that you quoted, so I will counter with proof that God is not concerned with non-Messianic Jews and National Israel today.

[If the Christian saints represent both the Temple and the sacrifices performed during the Feast of Tabernacles, what about the pilgrimage aspect of this feast? During the Feast of Tabernacles, the Jewish people were expected to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in order to celebrate this feast. As explained in the commentary on Revelation, the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21 and 22 is the Christian church. Thus this pilgrimage aspect of the Feast of Tabernacles in which Jews were expected to celebrate this feast in Jerusalem is no longer necessary because the Christian church is the New Jerusalem. Therefore, because the Christian saints are both the new temple of God and the New Jerusalem and their lives are spiritual sacrifices to God, then the Christian saints in and of themselves fulfill all the stipulations of the Feast of Tabernacles in a spiritual sense in the new covenant age.


Zechariah 14:16-17 says that if the people of the earth do not participate in the Feast of Tabernacles they will have no rain. As explained above the Feast of Tabernacles appears to be fulfilled in the Christian church. It is interesting to note that the preponderance of all Muslim nations throughout the Middle East and North Africa are arid countries. Is the fact that these non-Christian countries have little to no rain a coincidence or could this fact be the fulfillment of these verses today?




Fulfilled! Zechariah 14:20-21 Commentary: HOLY TO THE LORD was etched on the High Priest’s Forehead. This Mark of God allows entry into the Presence of God.


God created Adam and his descendants out of dirt like a potter fashioning pottery out of clay (Genesis 2:7). Thus mankind is often represented as pottery in vs. like Romans 9:21 and 2 Corinthians 4:7.


The inscription HOLY TO THE LORD was etched into a gold plate over the high priest’s forehead whenever he entered the inner sanctuary of the temple. As is stated in Hebrews 8:5, the temple sanctuary is an earthly shadow of heaven. This mark on the forehead allows access into the presence of God in heaven in the same way that it allowed the high priest to enter the presence of God in the inner sanctuary of the temple. The fact that the inscription HOLY TO THE LORD is found on the bells of the horses, the cooking pots and the sacred bowls in v. 20 suggests that these bells, cooking pots and sacred bowls ultimately represent spirits in or destined for heaven. Therefore, these two verses may be an allegorical representation of the resurrection of the saints.] REVELATIONREVOLUTION.org
A major fallacy of the preterist mentality is a failure to recognize the elasticity of chronological jargon within the context of biblical prophecy. It is a rather common trait in prophetic language that an event, while literally in the remote future, may be described as near. The purpose in this sort of language is to emphasize the certainty of the prophecy’s fulfillment.

Obadiah, for instance, foretold the final day of earth’s history. Concerning that event, he said: “For the day of Jehovah is near upon all the nations” (Obad. 15). This cannot refer to some local judgment, because “all nations” are to be involved. And yet, the event is depicted as near.

There are numerous prophecies of this nature, including passages like James 5:8—“the coming of the Lord is at hand.” James could not have been predicting the literally imminent return of the Savior, for such knowledge was not made available to the Lord’s penmen. Not even Jesus himself knew of the time of his return to earth (Mt. 24:36).
 
As I stated.....Romans 11 says clearly that God is not finished with Israel.

You said................
"When Jesus said, unless those days be cut short, no life would be saved-- that my friend is describing the 67-70AD war in Jerusalem."

I do not agree. When we study carefully the the context and do the exegesis we see that what Jesus was referring to was the "things" He described
in the preceding verses of Matt. 24:6-15 which was War,jusgments, , pestilence, economic woes and death during the 7 year Tribulation period.

You seem to have forgotten to respond to the position I posed to you which was........
" Furthermore, if that was it, then there would not have been any event occurring afterwards, that could compare or cause more suffering. However, in the 20th Century alone, there were two world wars, where the toll of death and destruction was much greater. Fifty million died in World War II, not to mention the horrendous barbarism of the holocaust, and the Nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Honestly, such a claim is really rather, shall I say......challenging."

Here then is another position which clearly rejects the false teaching of Preterism...............

In response to the question as to what was the sign of the “end of the age,” Jesus said it was the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in Daniel.

This was confirmed by Paul, as the occasion when the Antichrist literally sits in the Holy Place in Jerusalem, and proclaims himself God. This sign is preceded, according to Jesus, by the preaching of the gospel to the whole world. How did this happen prior to 70AD, and when did the Antichrist take his seat in Jerusalem? YOU as a Preterists must say that Nero was the Antichrist. However, Nero never stood on the Temple Mount and declared himself God. He was a nutty despot, who burned Rome and used the occasion to enlarge his palace.

Now there are TWO positions which deny the Preterist false teaching. Would you care to respond to them at this time????
There were wars and rumors of wars within the Roman empire leading up to the 66-70Ad war with the Jews, just like Jesus told the apostles and disciples in Matthew 24, etc.
Nero was dead in AD68. Titus was your "antichrist."

I noticed you wrote "THE END OF THE AGE." Daniel was to rise to his inheritance at the end of the Jewish age. The resurrection was in AD70.
 
A major fallacy of the preterist mentality is a failure to recognize the elasticity of chronological jargon within the context of biblical prophecy. It is a rather common trait in prophetic language that an event, while literally in the remote future, may be described as near. The purpose in this sort of language is to emphasize the certainty of the prophecy’s fulfillment.

Obadiah, for instance, foretold the final day of earth’s history. Concerning that event, he said: “For the day of Jehovah is near upon all the nations” (Obad. 15). This cannot refer to some local judgment, because “all nations” are to be involved. And yet, the event is depicted as near.

There are numerous prophecies of this nature, including passages like James 5:8—“the coming of the Lord is at hand.” James could not have been predicting the literally imminent return of the Savior, for such knowledge was not made available to the Lord’s penmen. Not even Jesus himself knew of the time of his return to earth (Mt. 24:36).
"The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord concerning Edom…thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount o Esau may be cut off by slaughter. For they violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever…For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head." Obadiah1, 9, 10, 15
Edom no longer exists. The historical context of the passage describes Edom's violence to Judah during the Assyrio-Babylonian invasions. God would requite Edom for it violence to Judah when the armies of Babylon and succeeding empire of the Medes and Persians overwhelmed the earth. Clearly, there is nothing in the passage that would allow us to apply it to our day or beyond.

Lastly, please re-read Revelation 1. God gave Jesus the roundabout time and day. Remember, only the Father knew! And all to occur "soon."
 
Edom no longer exists. The historical context of the passage describes Edom's violence to Judah during the Assyrio-Babylonian invasions. God would requite Edom for it violence to Judah when the armies of Babylon and succeeding empire of the Medes and Persians overwhelmed the earth. Clearly, there is nothing in the passage that would allow us to apply it to our day or beyond.

Lastly, please re-read Revelation 1. God gave Jesus the roundabout time and day. Remember, only the Father knew! And all to occur "soon."
The Country does not exist today but the LAND IS STILL THERE and The territory is currently controlled by Jordan.

Sister......God said NO ONE KNOWES! Preterism says the 2nd coming has already taken place!

Who is right.........the Scriptures or Preterism????

And AGAIN......in Bible prophecy, "SOON" does not in any way mean 70AD!.

The word in verse 1 that is translated as “soon” or “shortly” is the Greek word “tachei” [Strong’s #5034]. Notice how this word is defined:

1. Strong’s — quickness, speed; hastily, immediately
2. HELPS — swiftness (speed), i.e. done as quickly (speedily) as is appropriate to the particular situation (HELPS Word-studies, The Discovery Bible New Testament, Gary Hill).

It’s important to notice that the primary meaning of this word refers to the speed by which an event approaches rather than the duration of time before it arrives. In fact, this same word is generally translated in terms of speed elsewhere in the New Testament, as shown in the following examples:

Luke 8 —
I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?


Acts 12 —
And behold, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared and a light shone in the cell; and he struck Peter’s side and woke him up, saying, “Get up quickly.” And his chains fell off his hands.

Acts 22 —
and I saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.
 
There were wars and rumors of wars within the Roman empire leading up to the 66-70Ad war with the Jews, just like Jesus told the apostles and disciples in Matthew 24, etc.
Nero was dead in AD68. Titus was your "antichrist."

I noticed you wrote "THE END OF THE AGE." Daniel was to rise to his inheritance at the end of the Jewish age. The resurrection was in AD70.

So then there is NO resurrection of Saints in the New Test. According to your theology.

Also, if Titus was THE A/C....who was the False Prophet?

Harriet, I am sure that you are a well read and wonderful Christian. I do not mean to disrespect you in any way....however, the Preterism theology you espouse is a really, really bad false teaching.

Having done many years of study, there is absolutely NO writing that I myself am aware of have been found by the early church writers teaching that the time of great tribulation was FULFILLED during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, then I myself must REFUTE this false teaching.

Allow me to say that lets Let us SUPPOSE for just a moment that preterism is true and that 70 AD is the complete FULFILLMENT of ALL of Matthew chapter 24. And ALSO a complete FULFILLMENT of all of the book of Revelation EXCEPT for Revelation 20:10 through Revelation 22:21 the end of the prophecy of the book of Revelation, according to the teaching of preterism.

And, therefore, according to the teaching of “PRETERISM”, we are NOW living in the age of the MILLENNIUM.

Since that is true then way has over 250 million dies in the past 2000 years in war.
Why is there Covid 19???
Why is there Cancer."????
Why do babies die?
WHY does anyone died????
 
The Country does not exist today but the LAND IS STILL THERE and The territory is currently controlled by Jordan.

Sister......God said NO ONE KNOWES! Preterism says the 2nd coming has already taken place!

Who is right.........the Scriptures or Preterism????

And AGAIN......in Bible prophecy, "SOON" does not in any way mean 70AD!.

The word in verse 1 that is translated as “soon” or “shortly” is the Greek word “tachei” [Strong’s #5034]. Notice how this word is defined:

1. Strong’s — quickness, speed; hastily, immediately
2. HELPS — swiftness (speed), i.e. done as quickly (speedily) as is appropriate to the particular situation (HELPS Word-studies, The Discovery Bible New Testament, Gary Hill).

It’s important to notice that the primary meaning of this word refers to the speed by which an event approaches rather than the duration of time before it arrives. In fact, this same word is generally translated in terms of speed elsewhere in the New Testament, as shown in the following examples:

Luke 8 —
I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?


Acts 12 —
And behold, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared and a light shone in the cell; and he struck Peter’s side and woke him up, saying, “Get up quickly.” And his chains fell off his hands.

Acts 22 —
and I saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.
Trying to change the plain meaning of the word "soon" is a losing argument.
 
So then there is NO resurrection of Saints in the New Test. According to your theology.

Also, if Titus was THE A/C....who was the False Prophet?

Harriet, I am sure that you are a well read and wonderful Christian. I do not mean to disrespect you in any way....however, the Preterism theology you espouse is a really, really bad false teaching.

Having done many years of study, there is absolutely NO writing that I myself am aware of have been found by the early church writers teaching that the time of great tribulation was FULFILLED during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, then I myself must REFUTE this false teaching.

Allow me to say that lets Let us SUPPOSE for just a moment that preterism is true and that 70 AD is the complete FULFILLMENT of ALL of Matthew chapter 24. And ALSO a complete FULFILLMENT of all of the book of Revelation EXCEPT for Revelation 20:10 through Revelation 22:21 the end of the prophecy of the book of Revelation, according to the teaching of preterism.

And, therefore, according to the teaching of “PRETERISM”, we are NOW living in the age of the MILLENNIUM.

Since that is true then way has over 250 million dies in the past 2000 years in war.
Why is there Covid 19???
Why is there Cancer."????
Why do babies die?
WHY does anyone died????
I don't understand how preterism relates to those questions. Preterism is an eschatological paradigm. Your questions though could probably be answered when you consider man's free will.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top