Hidden On High (Col 3:3)

Heavenly beings living in an earthly realm! Angeles? No, believers in the Lord Jesus! Angels are in the earthly realm; they do not live but work here. Every true saint knows their destiny, which is where they are presently positioned in heaven.
NC





Hidden On High (Col 3:3)


God’s relationship with earthly Israel was, I am so holy that I cannot let anyone come near Me. I will give you laws and promises, but into My presence you cannot come (e.g. Exo 19:12, 13). As Christians, our relationship with the Father is infinitely otherwise. We have “boldness to enter into the Holiest” (Heb 10:19). What was, that God did not come out to man, and man could not go in to God. Keep the law and have human self-righteousness, but do not come near Me. All this ended in the rejection of the Messiah.

What is, that the veil is rent from top to bottom, and that the only place I have to walk in is in the light as my Father is in the light, and if I cannot walk in the light I cannot walk with Him at all. A believer’s place is not that he ought, but that he must walk in the light, as the Father is in the light, or he cannot walk with Him at all, for now there is no veil.

We have a title and position to be in the Holiest by the Blood that brought us there, and are fit for it as cleansed from all sin, and there is no other place to walk with the Father. But we reckon ourselves also dead to sin (concerning its dominion and damnation—NC) to all that is without. This is the very thing that gives us deliverance. I am not in the flesh at all (Rom 8:9), therefore I can go in with boldness.

Our Father has personally accepted us in His Son, His Beloved who is in the glory. Our actual condition is never spoken of except as being in connection with the Second Man in glory; our only connection with the Father is in is Son; we are “Predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren” (Rom 8:29).

This is not a question of our responsibility; it all depends upon the finished work of the Last Adam; it rests upon the finished work of the Cross. The Lord Jesus has obeyed even unto death, and is glorified. As the result of His work, we have been begotten again with “the Word of Truth” (Jas 1:18), we have been made the children of the Father through faith in His Son, and thus have a new life and nature. We are now heirs of God and “joint-heirs with Christ” (Rom 8:17).

Now this new life must have an object, and the Father has given it One that is not in this world at all. There is not a single thing in this world to which we are crucified that will not deter our growth if we go after it. Sanctification is connected with the Lord Jesus Christ, our Life, in glory. All is new: the Life, the character, the Object by which we are sanctified through the Holy Spirit, is outside the world entirely.

The work being fully accomplished, the Spirit of Christ comes down and says, “Now the world is done with, and if you do not come out of it in body (e.g. die - 1Co 5:10), be out of it, and in heaven in spirit (heavenly positioned in the spirit of our mind while yet here in the body—NC). I have come down purposely to recreate you in union with the One outside this world.” The Object before us is the glorified Lord Jesus; He is our Christian Life (Col 3:4): we are “created in Christ Jesus” (Eph 2:10). The believer has responsibilities here, and is not “taken out of this world” (Jhn 17:15); but his life is wholly in union with the Lord Jesus at the right hand of the Father, and everything that diminishes our perception of Him there, diminishes our practical growth here.

The world will not now bear a man that is like Christ. It will tolerate plenty of Christians; an amiable Christian it will get on with; but a believer is called to be faithful. Remember, the believer has two lives, two natures and whatever he gets on in the world, it is the believer who goes to the world (carnal Christian—NC), for the world cannot go to him—it has only one life and nature.


—J N Darby (1800-1882)






MJS devotional excerpt for January 26

“Affliction and suffering are the lot of all men, the privilege of all believers. Our sufferings bring forth need, and our need brings forth His comfort and consolation. Blessed need! “As ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation” (2 Cor. 1:7). Blessed promise!” –Miles J Stanford
 
Heavenly beings living in an earthly realm! Angeles? No, believers in the Lord Jesus! Angels are in the earthly realm; they do not live but work here. Every true saint knows their destiny, which is where they are presently positioned in heaven.
NC





Hidden On High (Col 3:3)


God’s relationship with earthly Israel was, I am so holy that I cannot let anyone come near Me. I will give you laws and promises, but into My presence you cannot come (e.g. Exo 19:12, 13). As Christians, our relationship with the Father is infinitely otherwise. We have “boldness to enter into the Holiest” (Heb 10:19). What was, that God did not come out to man, and man could not go in to God. Keep the law and have human self-righteousness, but do not come near Me. All this ended in the rejection of the Messiah.

What is, that the veil is rent from top to bottom, and that the only place I have to walk in is in the light as my Father is in the light, and if I cannot walk in the light I cannot walk with Him at all. A believer’s place is not that he ought, but that he must walk in the light, as the Father is in the light, or he cannot walk with Him at all, for now there is no veil.

We have a title and position to be in the Holiest by the Blood that brought us there, and are fit for it as cleansed from all sin, and there is no other place to walk with the Father. But we reckon ourselves also dead to sin (concerning its dominion and damnation—NC) to all that is without. This is the very thing that gives us deliverance. I am not in the flesh at all (Rom 8:9), therefore I can go in with boldness.

Our Father has personally accepted us in His Son, His Beloved who is in the glory. Our actual condition is never spoken of except as being in connection with the Second Man in glory; our only connection with the Father is in is Son; we are “Predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren” (Rom 8:29).

This is not a question of our responsibility; it all depends upon the finished work of the Last Adam; it rests upon the finished work of the Cross. The Lord Jesus has obeyed even unto death, and is glorified. As the result of His work, we have been begotten again with “the Word of Truth” (Jas 1:18), we have been made the children of the Father through faith in His Son, and thus have a new life and nature. We are now heirs of God and “joint-heirs with Christ” (Rom 8:17).

Now this new life must have an object, and the Father has given it One that is not in this world at all. There is not a single thing in this world to which we are crucified that will not deter our growth if we go after it. Sanctification is connected with the Lord Jesus Christ, our Life, in glory. All is new: the Life, the character, the Object by which we are sanctified through the Holy Spirit, is outside the world entirely.

The work being fully accomplished, the Spirit of Christ comes down and says, “Now the world is done with, and if you do not come out of it in body (e.g. die - 1Co 5:10), be out of it, and in heaven in spirit (heavenly positioned in the spirit of our mind while yet here in the body—NC). I have come down purposely to recreate you in union with the One outside this world.” The Object before us is the glorified Lord Jesus; He is our Christian Life (Col 3:4): we are “created in Christ Jesus” (Eph 2:10). The believer has responsibilities here, and is not “taken out of this world” (Jhn 17:15); but his life is wholly in union with the Lord Jesus at the right hand of the Father, and everything that diminishes our perception of Him there, diminishes our practical growth here.

The world will not now bear a man that is like Christ. It will tolerate plenty of Christians; an amiable Christian it will get on with; but a believer is called to be faithful. Remember, the believer has two lives, two natures and whatever he gets on in the world, it is the believer who goes to the world (carnal Christian—NC), for the world cannot go to him—it has only one life and nature.


—J N Darby (1800-1882)






MJS devotional excerpt for January 26

“Affliction and suffering are the lot of all men, the privilege of all believers. Our sufferings bring forth need, and our need brings forth His comfort and consolation. Blessed need! “As ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation” (2 Cor. 1:7). Blessed promise!” –Miles J Stanford



Boy that thing is probably the most difficult thing to read I have come across. Part of it is his topic.

I don't think there is a value to us being hidden in God that is any different from other 'covering' themes: Christ's righteousness covers our sins, etc. Since we still sin, it has to be a re-statement about justification: that we have been declared righteous in Christ and this grants us blessings. Sin as a debt is different from sin as a habit. There is only confusion if the two topics are mixed.

As for the 'things on earth' and the 'things in heaven', the first meaning of expressions like this in Paul is how it relates to Judaism. All 4 of these short letter (Eph--Col--Phil--Gal) are mostly about tangles with Judaism, and its answer is things on earth. Christ is the answer from heaven. The things on earth are circumcision, sabbath, dietary laws, festivals, etc, that are 'weak and miserable.' Christ empowers/inspires love because his has provided righteousness to all who believe.

If that's what Darby was trying to say, good for him, but you'd never know it.
 
Boy that thing is probably the most difficult thing to read I have come across. Part of it is his topic.

I don't think there is a value to us being hidden in God that is any different from other 'covering' themes: Christ's righteousness covers our sins, etc. Since we still sin, it has to be a re-statement about justification: that we have been declared righteous in Christ and this grants us blessings.
Hi and thanks for your instructional input! "Hid in Christ" is not in relation to the witness of believers, which should be seen (Mat 5:16 - unless I'm misunderstanding your point), but the scriptural sense of "hidden" is in relation to the Gospel and knowing and understanding it, which it and all related to it concerning believers is secluded to the understanding of unbelievers (majority of mankind). I like and agree with the general content of your reply and comments.

Would like to share this with you:

John Gill - "hid," which denotes the secrecy of it, and is true both of spiritual and eternal life. The spiritual life of the saints is hid from the men of the world, who are alienated from the life of God, are ignorant of the Lord of life, and know nothing of the spirit of life; they are strangers to the nature of this life, and to the food on which believers live, the hidden manna; and to the doctrines of the Gospel, by which they are nourished, these are hid to them that are lost; and to all the joys and pleasures of it: and this is sometimes hid from the saints themselves, when temptations are violent, corruptions prevail, grace is low, and seems to be gone, and God hides his face."
 
Hi and thanks for your instructional input! "Hid in Christ" is not in relation to the witness of believers, which should be seen (Mat 5:16 - unless I'm misunderstanding your point), but the scriptural sense of "hidden" is in relation to the Gospel and knowing and understanding it, which it and all related to it concerning believers is secluded to the understanding of unbelievers (majority of mankind). I like and agree with the general content of your reply and comments.

Would like to share this with you:

John Gill - "hid," which denotes the secrecy of it, and is true both of spiritual and eternal life. The spiritual life of the saints is hid from the men of the world, who are alienated from the life of God, are ignorant of the Lord of life, and know nothing of the spirit of life; they are strangers to the nature of this life, and to the food on which believers live, the hidden manna; and to the doctrines of the Gospel, by which they are nourished, these are hid to them that are lost; and to all the joys and pleasures of it: and this is sometimes hid from the saints themselves, when temptations are violent, corruptions prevail, grace is low, and seems to be gone, and God hides his face."


Needs to relate to Judaism, from which Paul was continually detangling.
 
Darby and Gill, interesting, a Dispensationalist and a Calvinist. What is little known (especially by Calvinists) is that the early Dispensationalists were in fact...Calvinists! Today, Dispensationalism is poo pooed by many Calvinists. lol
 
Needs to relate to Judaism, from which Paul was continually detangling.
Just want to add that many misunderstand Scripture's use of "dispensation" (1Co 9:17, Eph 1:10; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25) teaches the various ways God teaches. For example He spoke by the prophets, and now He speaks by His Son (Heb 1:1, 2). The way of the Law dispensation is a different administration than the Gospel dispensation, etc. The term just means the "manner" in which God teaches, as the Body of Christ was not revealed in the OT, just Christ's atonement but not His Church.

Judaism and Christianity are separate dispensations or teachings, but both are permanent, as the new Law dispensation for Jews who believed in God but not in Christ will have on the "new earth" (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:24-28).
 
Darby and Gill, interesting, a Dispensationalist and a Calvinist. What is little known (especially by Calvinists) is that the early Dispensationalists were in fact...Calvinists! Today, Dispensationalism is poo pooed by many Calvinists. lol
Though we differ in our understanding, I want to thank you for your ministerial work on this site, and God's blessings to your Family!
 
Just want to add that many misunderstand Scripture's use of "dispensation" (1Co 9:17, Eph 1:10; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25) teaches the various ways God teaches. For example He spoke by the prophets, and now He speaks by His Son (Heb 1:1, 2). The way of the Law dispensation is a different administration than the Gospel dispensation, etc. The term just means the "manner" in which God teaches, as the Body of Christ was not revealed in the OT, just Christ's atonement but not His Church.

Judaism and Christianity are separate dispensations or teachings, but both are permanent, as the new Law dispensation for Jews who believed in God but not in Christ will have on the "new earth" (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:24-28).


I don't know where you get these ideas when the NT shows us very clear scenes of the apostles telling their leaders in Judaism what they must do. The end of the 1st sermon by an apostle says 'save yourselves from this perverse generation.' Doesn't strike me as a system of 2 programs.
 
I don't know where you get these ideas when the NT shows us very clear scenes of the apostles telling their leaders in Judaism what they must do. The end of the 1st sermon by an apostle says 'save yourselves from this perverse generation.' Doesn't strike me as a system of 2 programs.
I understand why you see it like that, and you always make good points, but Israel's eschatology is not directly clear enough to most believers. Upon examining the two prophecies I've listed I believe it's clear enough to see that they have yet to occur, which leaves the chronology of this issue during the Millennial KIngdom of Christ's and the saints earthly rule (Rev 20:4-6).
 
I understand why you see it like that, and you always make good points, but Israel's eschatology is not directly clear enough to most believers. Upon examining the two prophecies I've listed I believe it's clear enough to see that they have yet to occur, which leaves the chronology of this issue during the Millennial KIngdom of Christ's and the saints earthly rule (Rev 20:4-6).

How much weight does the NT quotation of the OT have? The NT does interpret Jer 23-33 for us.
 
It's as I've mentioned. Israel's eschatology is nearly as mysterious as the Church and Body of Christ was to the prophets, until Paul.

If you read Eph 3, and even Acts 15, carefully, you will see that the church is not the mystery at all. The thing in Eph 3 that is the mystery is the prepositional phrase that unified "Israel" and citizenship and membership is through the Gospel. (I have 4 years of Greek and have found the grammatical support of this about 3:5, 6.) Because of 'in your seed, all the nations of the earth will be blessed,' Judaism expected to have a huge effect on the nations. The mystery is not the reaching of the nations, but that it was through the Gospel.

In Judaism, it was expected that this would take place through Torah. The Gentiles were supposed to become accomplished students of Torah, and this sets up quite a few problems among early Jewish Christians, like Acts 10:1,2. Indeed, it sets up the one thing that would have fractured the church in ch 15. There actually wasn't a mystery to anyone unless you were raised in 1st century Judaism.

You may recall the pointed line by Jesus in Matt 23, that the scribes made missionary trips all around, but only succeeded in making Gentiles twice as burdened as they were themselves. From that and other instances, we know that Judaism was already practicing the Torah as a mission work, and they believed they were what the prophets spoke of.

Paul himself was some 13 years sorting this out. 13 years! It is especially difficult for those who grew up in it, to see outside of. He called it a 'zeal for the Torah, but not according to knowledge (an uninformed zeal).'

Once he had been entirely reformed in Christ, he realized that what Israel was expecting was actually fulfilled in Christ. In fact, Christ himself was the Seed that the Abrahamic hope was about (Gal 3).

His official sample sermon about the climax of Israel's history is in Acts 13. Israel, to quote Isaiah 42 and 49, would be a light to the nations, but through Christ (in fact, the Servant of Isaiah is Christ...). That means through the Gospel.
 
If you read Eph 3, and even Acts 15, carefully, you will see that the church is not the mystery at all.
It's my understanding that Eph 3 concerns not Israel but the Church of Christ who are Israelites believing in Christ (which are not many compared to the nation's total), and of course as you've indicated, those among the Gentile believers in Christ, which will make up the majority of the Church, His Body. Most of Israel will not believe in Christ until His return (Jn 20:29), which will begin with the Lord Jesus and His Church teaching the nations during the Millennium. The blessing in Jhn 20:29 is sonship in the Father as God's children; but God's "people" who believed in Him will just continue as His people instead of His children (which is why it's not phrased thusly in Scripture). Heaven requires sonship; and Israelites who "believe in God" (Jhn 14:1) remain on the new earth, which is what all the language usages of inheriting the earth involves.

I'm not certain of all that I presented here, it's just what I've believed for the last few decades. And of course none of it is essential doctrine (related to requirements of salvation).
 
Eph 3 concerns not Israel but the Church of Christ

Yet it uses very technical terms for what "Israel" has: recipients of the promise, membership in commonwealth, inheritance. This was already mentioned in the 2nd half of ch. 2.

It is very important to sort out who the other Israel is in Romans 9:6. That's where our understanding usually gets sidetracked. Ch 9 has a way of sounding like a sub-group, (by using the patriarchal episode) but it is not a sub-group as the chapter goes on, and 4 OT quotes support that. The other Israel is "us...whom God called not only from Israel but from among the nations."

Thanks for chatting!

 
Eph 3 concerns not Israel but the Church of Christ

Yet it uses very technical terms for what "Israel" has: recipients of the promise, membership in commonwealth, inheritance. This was already mentioned in the 2nd half of ch. 2.
Yes, "membership in commonwealth, inheritance," etc. are Jewish members who are first in the Church of Christ. The non-Christian Jews are not part of this Church and Body (Rom 1:16; 2:9, 10), who will be God's earthly "people" in the future and eternal "New Covenant" per Jerimiah and Ezekiel prophecies; all Christians will be His heavenly "children"!

Definitely nice also chatting with you!
 
Eph 3 concerns not Israel but the Church of Christ

Yet it uses very technical terms for what "Israel" has: recipients of the promise, membership in commonwealth, inheritance. This was already mentioned in the 2nd half of ch. 2.

It is very important to sort out who the other Israel is in Romans 9:6. That's where our understanding usually gets sidetracked.
Romans 9:6-8 are unbelieving Israelites (e.g. Rom 2:28, 29).
 
Yes, "membership in commonwealth, inheritance," etc. are Jewish members who are first in the Church of Christ. The non-Christian Jews are not part of this Church and Body (Rom 1:16; 2:9, 10), who will be God's earthly "people" in the future and eternal "New Covenant" per Jerimiah and Ezekiel prophecies; all Christians will be His heavenly "children"!

Definitely nice also chatting with you!

He's talking about the unity of the believers in that church right then. The New Covenant is present tense.

That letter (Ephesians) was the most circulated document of all that Paul wrote, see 1:1 notes. The destination is blank. It was to be read by every church he knew.
 
Romans 9:6-8 are unbelieving Israelites (e.g. Rom 2:28, 29).

Yet there are two Israels mentioned. Not that one is a sub-group of the other as the patriarchal story might suggest, but two distinct ones. By the end of the chapter, he's refering to "us" from both Jew and Gentile pools.
 
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