How is the development of morality a sin?

Via dolarossa

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Reading through genesis account and the creation story, I come across a strange paradox.

God said not to eat the fruit lest we die. The serpent said that we will have our eyes opened and become gods. God later confirmed the serpents truth.

Now if this story is about our evolution of consciousness ) and about our developing morality , ( tree of knowledge of good and evil)...

Then that should be a good thing...



We were tricked into morality and I don’t see how this is a sin.( Jesus was there’ll along to save us

Surely, love, compassion, sharing and basically being like God and caring is a good thing instead of just being a early human following our base instincts.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here thinking the serpent was a good thing?
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
No, respectfully, the serpent was a bad thing but mercy is greater where there is choice and we have free-will. Keep in mind that God said not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The serpent twisted that from his first statement.

Genesis 3:1-6 (NAS) -

"Now the serpent was more cunning than any animal of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “
Has God really said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
3
but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’”
4 The serpent said to the woman, “You certainly will not die!
5 For God knows that on the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took some of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.

See what Satan did there? He began with twisting God's word and then casting doubt on the truth of it. He set Eve up to make her own argument why she should be more open to another idea.
 

Nazarene Servant

Account Closed
The development of morality is in being able to abide by what
God has told us to do. I see what you are saying but remember
the parable of the one who builds his house on the rock. The key
is not in knowing what is right in God's eyes but in the action of
obedience to what He says, exactly the way He says.
 
?
I don't think the serpent was lying about the opening eyes thing but he DID lie about it not killing us.
It wasn't JUST good, it was also evil I suppose.
Otherwise we would have been innocent and lived forever, right?
 
Reading through genesis account and the creation story, I come across a strange paradox.

God said not to eat the fruit lest we die. The serpent said that we will have our eyes opened and become gods. God later confirmed the serpents truth.

Now if this story is about our evolution of consciousness ) and about our developing morality , ( tree of knowledge of good and evil)...

Then that should be a good thing...



We were tricked into morality and I don’t see how this is a sin.( Jesus was there’ll along to save us

Surely, love, compassion, sharing and basically being like God and caring is a good thing instead of just being a early human following our base instincts.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here thinking the serpent was a good thing?
The understanding of good and evil (moral development) by itself is a good thing, but in the Garden, that understanding was gained by evil means (disobedience of God's command). The efficacy of good is always tainted if the good is obtained by evil means. One example of this is communism, which offers practical solutions to poverty and social injustice. However, the bloody means of bringing about the communist revolution and the atheistic philosophy accompanying communism are evil. That means that communism can never be morally good.
 
The understanding of good and evil (moral development) by itself is a good thing, but in the Garden, that understanding was gained by evil means (disobedience of God's command). The efficacy of good is always tainted if the good is obtained by evil means. One example of this is communism, which offers practical solutions to poverty and social injustice. However, the bloody means of bringing about the communist revolution and the atheistic philosophy accompanying communism are evil. That means that communism can never be morally good.
but can't that be said about some countries wanting independent rule, not just communism and they also got that via bloody revolution.
Not to mention civil war.

The other thing is when people don't honour treaties, or one party drafts something the other one doesn't understand. Like job contracts with lots of clauses and fine print. No employer I ever knew said right we are going to negotiate with you pay and conditions. Nope. All they ever did was send a huge contract to sign already printed out to their specifications. You don't actually get a say. You just sign it, unless you can afford a lawyer who will draft another document.
 
Eve didn't gain understanding by evil means, as far as I know. She was tricked. But Adam, was the one who deliberately disobeyed, because he knew that it was wrong and didn't stop Eve, but also joined in. So It wasn't evil, it was just stupidity on their part.

It was evil on the serpent's part.
 
but can't that be said about some countries wanting independent rule, not just communism and they also got that via bloody revolution.
Not to mention civil war.

The other thing is when people don't honour treaties, or one party drafts something the other one doesn't understand. Like job contracts with lots of clauses and fine print. No employer I ever knew said right we are going to negotiate with you pay and conditions. Nope. All they ever did was send a huge contract to sign already printed out to their specifications. You don't actually get a say. You just sign it, unless you can afford a lawyer who will draft another document.
Your examples serve to prove the point that the world system is inherently evil, whether economics, governments, societies, or cultures. Everything not directly dedicated to Christ is by nature evil.
 
Reading through genesis account and the creation story, I come across a strange paradox.

God said not to eat the fruit lest we die. The serpent said that we will have our eyes opened and become gods. God later confirmed the serpents truth.

Now if this story is about our evolution of consciousness ) and about our developing morality , ( tree of knowledge of good and evil)...

Then that should be a good thing...



We were tricked into morality and I don’t see how this is a sin.( Jesus was there’ll along to save us

Surely, love, compassion, sharing and basically being like God and caring is a good thing instead of just being a early human following our base instincts.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here thinking the serpent was a good thing?

Here is something to think about. Everything is life is actually a "test". Every test then is rooted in CHOICE!

IMO, the tree in the Garden was the 1st test of man to see if he would do only one{ thing. Obey the Word of God.

Everything in the Garden of Eden was theirs to have except one thing......that stinking Tree!

With only one choice to make.......obey God or disobey God they did what they wanted to do and disobeyed God bringing in the curse of God on all humanity.

Given the intention of God that man was created in God's image, the tree then was actually a "Necessity"! You see, without the Freedom of Choice we would all then in effect be Robots. There is NO Moral dimension in the existence of a robot as it can only respond to the program imposed upon it by its maker.

Robots have no capacity to see values in anything. They have no ability to choose between good or evil, no ability love or to have compassion, joy and yes, despair.

Because we were created in God's image, to be truly like God in morality and character we had to have had the opportunity to make moral choices however great the risk such freedom may involve.

Now......how many times do you think that Adam and Eve walked by that tree???? Once? Twice? A Hundred??? It really does not matter because once was enough but I think it was a LOT and everything was fine until........The Serpent/Satan come upon the sceen.

Satan opened the door of opportunity by doing only ONE thing........He questioned the Word of God. All he asked Eve was.........
"Did God really say that you would die if you ate from the tree"????

Actually God said that "You will SURELY die" which in the original Hebrew carries the intention of......."Take it to the bank, it is a done deal".
 

Via dolarossa

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Here is something to think about. Everything is life is actually a "test". Every test then is rooted in CHOICE!

IMO, the tree in the Garden was the 1st test of man to see if he would do only one{ thing. Obey the Word of God.

Everything in the Garden of Eden was theirs to have except one thing......that stinking Tree!

With only one choice to make.......obey God or disobey God they did what they wanted to do and disobeyed God bringing in the curse of God on all humanity.

Given the intention of God that man was created in God's image, the tree then was actually a "Necessity"! You see, without the Freedom of Choice we would all then in effect be Robots. There is NO Moral dimension in the existence of a robot as it can only respond to the program imposed upon it by its maker.

Robots have no capacity to see values in anything. They have no ability to choose between good or evil, no ability love or to have compassion, joy and yes, despair.

Because we were created in God's image, to be truly like God in morality and character we had to have had the opportunity to make moral choices however great the risk such freedom may involve.

Now......how many times do you think that Adam and Eve walked by that tree???? Once? Twice? A Hundred??? It really does not matter because once was enough but I think it was a LOT and everything was fine until........The Serpent/Satan come upon the sceen.

Satan opened the door of opportunity by doing only ONE thing........He questioned the Word of God. All he asked Eve was.........
"Did God really say that you would die if you ate from the tree"????

Actually God said that "You will SURELY die" which in the original Hebrew carries the intention of......."Take it to the bank, it is a done deal".
I think the serpent was Prometheus and he tempted us with fire.
but I don't believe creation is completely evil because god is in everything.
 
I think the serpent was Prometheus and he tempted us with fire.
but I don't believe creation is completely evil because god is in everything.
If we look at the first five days of creation in Genesis, the phrase “And God saw that it was good” pops up four times (Genesis 1:10, 12, 18, 25).

Yet, at the end of the sixth day we read,
"God saw all that He had made, and said that it was very good".
 

Garee

Account Closed
Reading through genesis account and the creation story, I come across a strange paradox.

God said not to eat the fruit lest we die. The serpent said that we will have our eyes opened and become gods. God later confirmed the serpents truth.

Now if this story is about our evolution of consciousness ) and about our developing morality , ( tree of knowledge of good and evil)...

Then that should be a good thing...



We were tricked into morality and I don’t see how this is a sin.( Jesus was there’ll along to save us

Surely, love, compassion, sharing and basically being like God and caring is a good thing instead of just being a early human following our base instincts.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here thinking the serpent was a good thing?

It would appear a change came when the glory of God departed. In one way food is for the belly and the belly for food. Both are shown as perishing.in the new order.

Previously before the glory departed, God said do not to eat the fruit lest we die. It would appear like the time with the Son of man, Jesus when questioned by the apostles as to why Jesus did not eat literal food. Jesus referred doing the unseen will of the father eating meat the power needed to accomplish the will of another.

He covered them in flesh the glory having been departed .They could see they were naked .They hid that nakedness with a fig leaf .It represents the healing of the nations. The whole matter had to do with the departed glory.

Some say God killed a lamb. In the new order his glory again will be the light then there will be no more night forever more for children of light .
 
It would appear a change came when the glory of God departed. In one way food is for the belly and the belly for food. Both are shown as perishing.in the new order.

Previously before the glory departed, God said do not to eat the fruit lest we die. It would appear like the time with the Son of man, Jesus when questioned by the apostles as to why Jesus did not eat literal food. Jesus referred doing the unseen will of the father eating meat the power needed to accomplish the will of another.

He covered them in flesh the glory having been departed .They could see they were naked .They hid that nakedness with a fig leaf .It represents the healing of the nations. The whole matter had to do with the departed glory.

Some say God killed a lamb. In the new order his glory again will be the light then there will be no more night forever more for children of light .
They were naked already, but they weren't ashamed of it, as they didn't even know they were naked. But after eating the fruit, they saw they were naked and were ashamed.

It's like a baby doesn't know that its naked and needs to be clothed when its born and has no reason to be ashamed of not wearing any.
If we don't know it's anything to be ashamed of, we would have probably all walked around naked in the garden and not thought anything of it.

There IS actually a naked gardening day where gardeners garden in the nude. Personally I don't walk round naked in my garden but I guess I would if nobody was looking at me weird and there were no prickles and it was a beautiful garden that was safe! lol

I have heard some people comment that they were clothed in God's glory before that, I am supposing the entire earth had God's glory, like a mist or a steam or dew or something that made everything beautiful all the time. Recall it never even rained before the flood so they didn't need anything like raincoats and it wasn't extremely cold or hot - they were walking in the shade of trees.
 
I think the serpent was Prometheus and he tempted us with fire.
but I don't believe creation is completely evil because god is in everything.
Not sure what you are meaning by this but you are right, the fallen creation is not evil, (nor was the creation before the Fall), but I would hesitate to say 'God is in everything'. Was He in the fruit that Adam and Eve partook? Was He in the serpent who tempted the pair?
Just what do you understand by "god is in everything"?
 

Via dolarossa

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Not sure what you are meaning by this but you are right, the fallen creation is not evil, (nor was the creation before the Fall), but I would hesitate to say 'God is in everything'. Was He in the fruit that Adam and Eve partook? Was He in the serpent who tempted the pair?
Just what do you understand by "god is in everything"?
well there s a verse that's says He is in all above all and through all....
I forgot what book its in
 
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