Is The Heaven We Go To A Created Place Or Not?

Via dolarossa

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
I am I little confused on the places called Heaven.

I know there are different types of heaven.In Genesis, we see places of stars and planets etc...
Then Paradise,The Kingdom Of Heaven, ( the one we go to when we die?), is this the same as in revelations and Isaiah, (the new heaven, which is created?)

i'm under the impression, somehow, that Paradise, or Heaven, is uncreated or eternal, because surely it must be if Our Lord lives there.
and like the abode of the stars, the new heaven in revelations is created too.


Can anyone just straighten things out a little?
which Heaven are we to go? a created one or not?
 
Last edited:
I am I little confused on the places called Heaven.

I know there are different types of heaven.In Genesis, we see places of stars and planets etc...
Then Paradise,The Kingdom Of Heaven, ( the one we go to when we die?), is this the same as in revelations and Isaiah, (the new heaven, which is created?)

i'm under the impression, somehow, that Paradise, or Heaven, is uncreated or eternal, because surely it must be if Our Lord lives there.
and like the abode of the stars, the new heaven in revelations is created too.


Can anyone just straighten things out a little?
which Heaven are we to go? a created one or not?

I will be honored to help you.

2 Corth. 12:2.........
"All he knew was that it was like someone caught up to the third heaven".

Simple deduction then tells us that if there is a3rd heaven there must then be 2 more.

1st heaven = the earth .
Genesis 7:11-12........
During the great flood, the Bible said this, “The windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and fort nights”.
Job 35:11.........
“Who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth, and maketh us wiser than the fowls of heaven?”

2nd heaven = Sun, moon, stars and clouds.
King David contemplated on this second heaven in Psalm 8:3, “when I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained.”
Genesis 26:4............
“And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;”

3rd heaven = Where God lives.

Deuteronomy 26:15 ..........
“Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven, and bless thy people Israel, and the land which though hast given us, as thou swarest unto our fathers, a land that floweth with milk and honey.”

In this verse we can see that God’s dwelling place is directly called as heaven.
 
which Heaven are we to go? a created one or not?
Major discussed the 'which' question (thanks Major!)

I will address the question of whether it was created or eternal. Please note that I am in no way as well informed as many here, including Major and am just giving my understanding with a _little_ of my reasoning:

Note that Genesis 1:1 states that both heaven and earth are created things, so heaven is created.

Note also that John 1:1-3 says that at the very beginning the Word (the Son) already existed and was instrumental in all creation.

If one were to make a timeline, time itself would be one of the created things (the creation of time itself would be the initiating event). Prior to that (if I may refer to anything prior to time's start) There was only God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit all and each of which is the One God. No place was necessary because there would be no place outside of God.

All entities whether man or angels were created within time and our existance and manor of being require there to be time itself. We can have no existance apart from it.

Since we need time for our existance, Heavan as a place was and is being prepared for us and is itself part of the creation.
 

Via dolarossa

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Ok, I see, it’s a created place. Makes sense now.
But,
I find some of the Christian Faith hard to swallow. I can’t seem to accept the whole package😞

Life after death is hard for me to believe.
I mean physically, not spiritually.

I know God can do anything.

But I actually don’t see any evidence for an afterlife.
I mean, The bible does say, we need to prove all things.

How do we prove life after death?

Sorry. Just being honest here.
 

crossnote

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Ok, I see, it’s a created place. Makes sense now.
But,
I find some of the Christian Faith hard to swallow. I can’t seem to accept the whole package😞

Life after death is hard for me to believe.
I mean physically, not spiritually.

I know God can do anything.

But I actually don’t see any evidence for an afterlife.
I mean, The bible does say, we need to prove all things.

How do we prove life after death?

Sorry. Just being honest here.
Something to think about. Jesus’ rising from the dead has yet to be disproven nor has an empty tomb been explained.
 
Ok, I see, it’s a created place. Makes sense now.
But,
I find some of the Christian Faith hard to swallow. I can’t seem to accept the whole package😞

Life after death is hard for me to believe.
I mean physically, not spiritually.

I know God can do anything.

But I actually don’t see any evidence for an afterlife.
I mean, The bible does say, we need to prove all things.

How do we prove life after death?

Sorry. Just being honest here.

I can really relate...

There are times when I make the same calculation ( what evidence do I see in the physical world ) and have the same misgivings.

Physical evidence means a lot to me. Although I am not a scientist, the kind of things that convince a physicist or an astronomer resonates with the way my mind works.

As an amateur science observer, I look at 1 Thessalonians 5:21 as a reflection of the scientific method in summary form, but what we are talking about here ( the afterlife ) is not a part of the physical world. Also 5:21 is a continuation of 5:19 and :20 which is about the things of the spirit, not the physical world, and a preface to 5:22 which calls us to be apart from sin.

1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 (NASB)
19  Do not quench the Spirit;
20 do not despise prophetic utterances.
21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;
22 abstain from every form of evil.

This has taught me what faith is. Yes, I am to examine the world about me and to learn about God through his creation, but there is more to God's provision than the physical world.

I am also reminded that my thoughts are to be primarily on the step in front of me and how I can serve the Lord as I take it.

When I was working, I thought a lot about the task at hand, and tasks to come, but not a lot about the paycheck I anticipated.

I find a lot of comfort and sense of mission in living day to day. I do not have to wait until I am raised to have confidence in now. As I get older and my body is less robust, I am not so much growing more restless about what comes after as I am content that the Lord who loves me has prepared a place for me.
 
Major discussed the 'which' question (thanks Major!)

I will address the question of whether it was created or eternal. Please note that I am in no way as well informed as many here, including Major and am just giving my understanding with a _little_ of my reasoning:

Note that Genesis 1:1 states that both heaven and earth are created things, so heaven is created.

Note also that John 1:1-3 says that at the very beginning the Word (the Son) already existed and was instrumental in all creation.

If one were to make a timeline, time itself would be one of the created things (the creation of time itself would be the initiating event). Prior to that (if I may refer to anything prior to time's start) There was only God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit all and each of which is the One God. No place was necessary because there would be no place outside of God.

All entities whether man or angels were created within time and our existance and manor of being require there to be time itself. We can have no existance apart from it.

Since we need time for our existance, Heavan as a place was and is being prepared for us and is itself part of the creation.

Thank you brother for the compliment!

As for the creation of hell, Scripture simply does not tell us when that place was created. Presumably it would not have been needed until the first unrighteous person died. Obviously, God may have had this place prepared some time in advance, but we simply don’t know.

Heaven on the other hand is different IMHO. God is eternal and exists outside of time as we know it. Common sense then says that God had a place to dwell, so then Heaven must be eternal as well.
 
Heaven on the other hand is different IMHO. God is eternal and exists outside of time as we know it. Common sense then says that God had a place to dwell, so then Heaven must be eternal as well.
Not really to argue but so I understand,
If the very first verse in the Bible says the heavens were created by God, doesn't that mean that heaven is not eternal??
 
Not really to argue but so I understand,
If the very first verse in the Bible says the heavens were created by God, doesn't that mean that heaven is not eternal??

No arguments brother.....I do not know!

I am just speculating and you may be right!

I have no problem either way. It just seems to me that God was somewhere before the Creation, why not a place called Heaven, His home.?

Before creation, God couldn’t dwell in either the earth’s atmosphere or outer space (since they didn’t exist yet), but rather He dwelt in this third use of “heaven” – God’s dwelling place. Again.......that is just speculation on my part!!!!:):)
 
Ok, I see, it’s a created place. Makes sense now.
But,
I find some of the Christian Faith hard to swallow. I can’t seem to accept the whole package😞

Life after death is hard for me to believe.
I mean physically, not spiritually.

I know God can do anything.

But I actually don’t see any evidence for an afterlife.
I mean, The bible does say, we need to prove all things.

How do we prove life after death?

Sorry. Just being honest here.

Proof???

NO....FAITH!

Now Via...........how many prophecies in the Bible, and promises by God told to us by God in the Bible have not been fullfilled?????

The answer is NONE! Not one prophecy from the Bible has ever been wrong. 100% accurate and correct, I can’t think of many things these days that have a batting average of perfection, we all stumble at some point. Only God is perfect as is His word, inerrant.

Now since that is a FACT and not a wish or an opinion or a thought or I hope so........why would YOU question the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead?

Many....Many people witnessed that event. For it to not be a FACT they would all have to have gotten together and concocted the lie.
That would include the Jewish nonbelievers as well as the Roman guard.

For it to be untrue, a lie, all that the Jews and Romans had to do was PRODUCE THE BODY!!!!!!!
 
I've heard the term dimensions use when referring to the 'supernatural'. For example, what is known about the 4th dimension? We know how to interact with it, all our tech stuff, but we can't lay our hands on it... Science tells us that if an object travels fast enough they can pass through each other without any interference. Consider Jesus suddenly appearing. What about 'ghosts' etc, they must exist somewhere.
We know there is the region of the blessed and the regions of the lost.
My understanding is that the regions of the lost are floundering spirits with no real habitation and thereby make occasional appearances.
What is heaven? One thing we can say for sure is that it is a more 'real' place that that which we know here, for scripture tell us that what is seen was created by that which is unseen, and just as the Creator is greater than the creation so is that which 'was' greater than that what now is.
 
I've heard the term dimensions use when referring to the 'supernatural'. For example, what is known about the 4th dimension? We know how to interact with it, all our tech stuff, but we can't lay our hands on it... Science tells us that if an object travels fast enough they can pass through each other without any interference. Consider Jesus suddenly appearing. What about 'ghosts' etc, they must exist somewhere.
We know there is the region of the blessed and the regions of the lost.
My understanding is that the regions of the lost are floundering spirits with no real habitation and thereby make occasional appearances.
What is heaven? One thing we can say for sure is that it is a more 'real' place that that which we know here, for scripture tell us that what is seen was created by that which is unseen, and just as the Creator is greater than the creation so is that which 'was' greater than that what now is.

Now most of that is above my pay grade. I am just an old fashioned country boy by the way.

I will say however that IMHO there is no such thing as "Ghosts".
There is no science or scientific evidence behind ghosts. If there were, such evidence would have been produced for scientific examination long before now. But this has not happened. Those “credible” sources, such as grainy photos of “Bigfoot,” “UFOs,” or the “Loch Ness monster” and TV shows cannot be and have never been scientifically verified.

They are caused by the need for the human mind to fill the gaps in knowledge with “something,” and when nothing substantial can be found, insubstantial things are conjured up to fill the blank spaces.

Now, the Bible teaches very clearly that there are indeed spirit beings. The Bible identifies these beings as angels and demons.

The Bible also teaches us that there is a place for lost souls and it is Hell. Luke 16 says that it is a place of "Torments".

What is heaven??? It is where God dwells along with the host of heaven and all the saved of the ages.

But that is just me..........an old country boy!
 

bobinfaith

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
I am I little confused on the places called Heaven. I know there are different types of heaven.In Genesis, we see places of stars and planets etc...Then Paradise,The Kingdom Of Heaven, ( the one we go to when we die?), is this the same as in revelations and Isaiah, (the new heaven, which is created?) i'm under the impression, somehow, that Paradise, or Heaven, is uncreated or eternal, because surely it must be if Our Lord lives there. and like the abode of the stars, the new heaven in revelations is created too. Can anyone just straighten things out a little? which Heaven are we to go? a created one or not?
Note that Genesis 1:1 states that both heaven and earth are created things, so heaven is created. Note also that John 1:1-3 says that at the very beginning the Word (the Son) already existed and was instrumental in all creation. If one were to make a timeline, time itself would be one of the created things (the creation of time itself would be the initiating event). Prior to that (if I may refer to anything prior to time's start) There was only God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit all and each of which is the One God. No place was necessary because there would be no place outside of God. All entities whether man or angels were created within time and our existance and manor of being require there to be time itself. We can have no existance apart from it. Since we need time for our existance, Heavan as a place was and is being prepared for us and is itself part of the creation.
I've heard the term dimensions use when referring to the 'supernatural'. For example, what is known about the 4th dimension? We know how to interact with it, all our tech stuff, but we can't lay our hands on it... Science tells us that if an object travels fast enough they can pass through each other without any interference. Consider Jesus suddenly appearing. What about 'ghosts' etc, they must exist somewhere. We know there is the region of the blessed and the regions of the lost. My understanding is that the regions of the lost are floundering spirits with no real habitation and thereby make occasional appearances. What is heaven? One thing we can say for sure is that it is a more 'real' place that that which we know here, for scripture tell us that what is seen was created by that which is unseen, and just as the Creator is greater than the creation so is that which 'was' greater than that what now is.
Some say Heaven is wherever God is. 🙌

Hello everyone;

Siloam
shares Genesis 1:1, and if a Christian believes this profound verse then he/she will believe the whole Bible. What is great about our relationship with God is He will answer all our deepest thoughts including the formulas of Heaven or multiple Heavens.

My question to everyone is, (only because I don't know the answer,) are we going to even think about these formulas or multiple Heavens once we have entered Heaven?

As long as I have reached the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. - Philippians 3:14 ESV That's all that matters.

🎼 When we all get to Heaven, What a day of rejoicing that will be! 🎼
 
Hello everyone;

Siloam
shares Genesis 1:1, and if a Christian believes this profound verse then he/she will believe the whole Bible. What is great about our relationship with God is He will answer all our deepest thoughts including the formulas of Heaven or multiple Heavens.

My question to everyone is, (only because I don't know the answer,) are we going to even think about these formulas or multiple Heavens once we have entered Heaven?

As long as I have reached the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. - Philippians 3:14 ESV That's all that matters.

🎼 When we all get to Heaven, What a day of rejoicing that will be! 🎼
Once we are raised and are eternaly in the very physical presence, there are a lot of the cares of the current world that will be permantly in our past ( OBE -- Overcome By Events ).

But on this side of things, we as persons cannot help but anticipate ( however incorrectly ) and speculate.
 

bobinfaith

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Once we are raised and are eternaly in the very physical presence, there are a lot of the cares of the current world that will be permantly in our past ( OBE -- Overcome By Events ). But on this side of things, we as persons cannot help but anticipate ( however incorrectly ) and speculate.

Amen! We have to respect those who are very inquisitive and ask the questions in this topic.

Here's a question I have always asked, is Heaven greater than the universe?
 
Amen! We have to respect those who are very inquisitive and ask the questions in this topic.

Here's a question I have always asked, is Heaven greater than the universe?
With apologies to Via ( this is taking the thread down a rabbit-hole (meaning it is getting a little off topic)

This is like the questions that plagued midevil times

Like "Can God create a rock so large He is unable to lift it?" -- Attempting to pit against omnipotence against itself. The truth is that the question is a non-sequiter.

But to Bobinfaith's question, The Creator is always greater than the creation.
 

blueskies

Helper
Staff member
Helper
Life after death is hard for me to believe.
I mean physically, not spiritually.

I know God can do anything.

But I actually don’t see any evidence for an afterlife.
I mean, The bible does say, we need to prove all things.
Dear Via, I too wonder, and I don’t think we’re alone in our “wondering.”

I think of Heaven as the “after party”. To use one of those ubiquitous sports metaphors, the important thing at the moment is to win the game, to win salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

As to what follows our physical life even the Apostle’s were concerned and so we have been given a promise by Jesus himself,
John 14:3
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also”

This can only be good, right?

Will we be playing harps and floating about on clouds, studying God’s works and forever growing in understanding and Glory, or maybe, spending eternity shouting Hallelujahs before the throne?

I can’t say.

Note that Genesis 1:1 states that both heaven and earth are created things, so heaven is created.
If you can believe what Siloam has illuminated, well then, all that follows are merely the details, as bobinfaith points out.

As for me, it is as Bart Millard wrote in MercyMe’s inspired song,
“I can only imagine…”

God Bless you and all who strive too share Faith and Hope.
 
Top