Is Total Victory over Sin Possible?

Hobie

Hobie

We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming. Are we able to overcome or not?

When the Bible says let "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: ' does this mean we can stay full of iniquity

If we keep sinning will Christ make us sinless at the end when we are changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'? Is this verse referring only to our mortal bodies of flesh, or also our sinful lives?

What does the Bible teach. Lets take a look...

Well we see what Christ says when He comes to save the saints on earth...

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:26-27
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
 
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We have this verse given to us....

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And we have...

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

And Christ Himself says....

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

And then we have this...

John 17:22-24 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So is sin too much for us to stop, what does scripture say..

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Christ is clear on what we must do..

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

We find that Christ will cut off salvation at the close of probation to those who continue in sin before He comes.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Notice Christ declares "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still" and right after it, that He "comes quickly" with every mans reward. And we do not want to be full of sin and fall into His righteous wrath when we face our God...

Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 
Hobie said:
We have this verse given to us....

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And we have...

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

And Christ Himself says....

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

And then we have this...

John 17:22-24 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So is sin too much for us to stop, what does scripture say..

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Christ is clear on what we must do..

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

We find that Christ will cut off salvation at the close of probation to those who continue in sin before He comes.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Notice Christ declares "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still" and right after it, that He "comes quickly" with every mans reward. And we do not want to be full of sin and fall into His righteous wrath when we face our God...

Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Click to expand...
Hobie, remember there are two categories of sin and that ANY disobedience of a direction from the Holy Spirit is a sin, whether by COMMISSION or OMISSION. Also, remember sin can be committed by thoughts not just deeds. God has established such a high bar of holiness that if a human being could be as holy as God, he would be God. We, as saved Christians undergoing the sanctification process is strive to be holy, but being imperfect beings will not always be successful. We might ignore a beggar on the street (sin by omission), not witness to a fellow airline passenger in the next seat (sin by omission), shout in frustration at another freeway driver (sin by commission), drive 45 mph in a 30 mph speed zone (sin by commission), or take an extra long look at an attractive passerby on the sidewalk (sin by thought).

You see, sin takes many forms which confront us every day, and failure is easy. Thank God for the Holy Spirit!
 
Hobie said:
We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming. Are we able to overcome or not? When the Bible says let "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: ' does this mean we can stay full of iniquity If we keep sinning will Christ make us sinless at the end when we are changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'? Is this verse referring only to our mortal bodies of flesh, or also our sinful lives? What does the Bible teach. Lets take a look...Well we see what Christ says when He comes to save the saints on earth...
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Luke 13:26-27
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Click to expand...

Good morning, Hobie;

The "We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming" are in fact correct.

My personal walk with Christ has not been without all the mud (sin, transgressions and iniquities) that I've gotten on my shirt. It would be nice after all these years if I could repent for the last time and then spend the rest of my days "sinless." It's not going to happen.

Two examples of walking in obedience and repenting are sacrifices. Is walking in obedience with Christ easy? Is repenting of our sin fun? No to both.

When God sees our sacrifices He builds us up and matures us to minimize our sin daily. This empowers and equips us to effectively witness to those who cross our path that may be experiencing the same struggles we face.

When we sustain our daily relationship with Christ helps minimize our sin. An example, tomorrow I may get filled with anger and murderous thoughts of violence toward those who disrespect human life. (Without anyone noticing,) I have sinned in my heart reference Matthew 15:18-19, catch myself and immediately go to the Father and repent.

This is my story daily, and can take this in sharing the Gospel to others who know and may not know Jesus.

Hobie, I'm encouraging you to address your questions and provide the verb of this thread, and how it aligns with the context of the Scriptures.

God bless you, brother.

Bob
 
Hobie said:
We have this verse given to us....

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And we have...

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

And Christ Himself says....

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

And then we have this...

John 17:22-24 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So is sin too much for us to stop, what does scripture say..

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Christ is clear on what we must do..

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

We find that Christ will cut off salvation at the close of probation to those who continue in sin before He comes.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Notice Christ declares "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still" and right after it, that He "comes quickly" with every mans reward. And we do not want to be full of sin and fall into His righteous wrath when we face our God...

Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Click to expand...
Hobie, the word  perfect carries more than one meaning, depending on context. You're applying the one meaning, "to be without error" to every occurrence of the word, regardless of context. Another meaning of the word is "to be complete or mature" which applies to the context of some of your cited verses.
 
BibleLover said:
That is a Wesleyan tradition view of sanctification. I once heard a Christian from a Wesleyan tradition denomination say, "I'm saved and sanctified; I haven't sinned in 20 years." All I could think of at the time was, "Now he chooses to do a whopper!"
Click to expand...
When someone tells me that they are now sinless since they were saved..........I ask them, may I talk to your wife for about 5 minutes???
 
Hobie said:
We have many who say they can't or won't stop sinning even to when Jesus appears at the Second Coming. Are we able to overcome or not?

When the Bible says let "he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: ' does this mean we can stay full of iniquity

If we keep sinning will Christ make us sinless at the end when we are changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'? Is this verse referring only to our mortal bodies of flesh, or also our sinful lives?

What does the Bible teach. Lets take a look...

Well we see what Christ says when He comes to save the saints on earth...

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:26-27
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Click to expand...
"Is Total Victory Over Sin Possible" is what you asked.

Yes and NO!

Yes. When we die and go to heaven or the Rapture takes us to heaven. In either case we immediately receive a glorified spirit and can stand in front of God.

NO. Not as long as we live in these bodies.

Even without studying what the Bible says about the possibility of sinlessness, simple observation of people attempting to live the Christian life without sinning, causes me to be absolutely convinced that sinlessness is an absolutely impossibility.

Then when we actually read the Bible, we see rather quickly that every single person in the Bible had flaws except the Lord Jesus.

1 John 1:8.........
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us".
The apostle whom Jesus loved recognized that he was not sinless, and apparently did not even consider the idea that someone to whom he was writing might be sinless.

Nowhere does the Bible say that a Christian in this life will ever be completely perfect—that is, free from all sin.
Sometimes we sin by our actions; sometimes by our motives. Often we sin not because of what we do, but because of what we fail to do. For example, we fail to love or forgive others, or in other ways fail to do things we ought to do—and that is sin.

God said to Christians in 1 John 1:9........
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”.

The people in my life whom I would describe as the most spiritually mature, would never claim sinlessness. In fact, part of true spiritual maturity is being cognizant of the subtle sins in your life. True progress in the Christian life is honestly and humbly recognizing how much further you must go.

If you think you have arrived at sinlessness, think again. Unless you have arrived in heaven at the feet of Jesus, you still have work to do.

What you are suggesting is classic Pentecostal false teaching my friend and I say that with all due respect to you, but you have been given some very false teachings.
 
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