Judas, What Were You Thinking?

Musicmaster

Musicmaster

Another video of interactions between muslim kids and a Christian evangelist was based upon Judas, and his suicide.

The topic of this thread is the question that came to my mind. Did Judas lack the understanding that his betrayal of Christ could have been covered by the Blood that was about to be shed? Did he not understand that he could have been saved, but chose the path of self-murder?

Hmm. Something to think about.

MM
 
there will always be what ifs and thing we dont really know

he was blinded by his own greed. but prophecy had to be fulfilled Psalm 41:9 unfourteenthly it was Judas
 
Yes, I understand the self-defeating nature of discussing alternatives that were never going to happen.

The thrust of my question drives at the sufficiency of the Blood of Christ Jesus. Judas, had he sought to repent, confess, and seek the cleansing of his sin for betrayal, the Blood of Christ is more than sufficient to cover even that sin, but Judas chose self-murder, which the Lord knew from before the foundations of the world would be the case.

MM
 
There is a difference between rejecting the Word and falling due to human weakness as Peter did. The unforgivable sin is rejecting the Word when it is presented to you, then of course there is no recourse, the individual has sealed themselves off.
 
2404 said:
There is a difference between rejecting the Word and falling due to human weakness as Peter did. The unforgivable sin is rejecting the Word when it is presented to you, then of course there is no recourse, the individual has sealed themselves off.
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Indeed? Were we ALL not living in rejection up to the point that we called out to Him for salvation? Having been born in sin, rejecting the Lord up to the death bed, and then calling upon His name, those who came to Christ on their death beds, are you saying they were still lost?

MM
 
We were living in ignorance but when we heard the call we woke up and received it.
Timing is up to the Lord, be it the thief on the cross or a death bed. The key is to receive it. The difference is receiving it in your heart vs an intellectual decision, for the intellect stays here and can't go the distance.
 
Musicmaster said:
Another video of interactions between muslim kids and a Christian evangelist was based upon Judas, and his suicide.

The topic of this thread is the question that came to my mind. Did Judas lack the understanding that his betrayal of Christ could have been covered by the Blood that was about to be shed? Did he not understand that he could have been saved, but chose the path of self-murder?

Hmm. Something to think about.

MM
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And he called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits. So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent. And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them. (Mark 6:7‭, ‬12‭-‬13 ESV)

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. (Hebrews 6:4‭-‬6 ESV)

It could be argued that the above verse applied to Judas because he was one of the 12 sent out by Jesus, equipped with the power to work miracles, to evangelize the Jews.
 
BibleLover said:
And he called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits. So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent. And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them. (Mark 6:7‭, ‬12‭-‬13 ESV)

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. (Hebrews 6:4‭-‬6 ESV)

It could be argued that the above verse applied to Judas because he was one of the 12 sent out by Jesus, equipped with the power to work miracles, to evangelize the Jews.
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His sin was betrayal, not rejection and renouncement of the faith. Is that correct, or not?

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
Is it?

Is that true in all cases?

Did Jesus address him as having rejected Him, or in betraying Him?

MM
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For example, treason is betrayal of one's own nation, community, or tribe. The betrayal your group requires that you must first reject them. You cannot betray that which you love and embrace; you must first detach yourself from it before you can betray it.
 
BibleLover said:
For example, treason is betrayal of one's own nation, community, or tribe. The betrayal your group requires that you must first reject them. You cannot betray that which you love and embrace; you must first detach yourself from it before you can betray it.
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If we're going to open the door of parallels, then we can also carry your statement to also include the idea that a husband who betrays his wife through fornication with another woman must always lead to divorce, never reconciliation and forgiveness. is that what you're saying?

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
If we're going to open the door of parallels, then we can also carry your statement to also include the idea that a husband who betrays his wife through fornication with another woman must always lead to divorce, never reconciliation and forgiveness. is that what you're saying?

MM
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The issue of mandatory divorce aside, at the moment the unfaithful spouse embraces an outside person, they have, at that moment, rejected their own spouse. One can later regret the betrayal (as Judas did), but that has no bearing upon whether the rejected party is obligated to forgive the betrayal.

Today, it is commonly taught that Heb. 6:4-6 was an hypothetical example meant only to serve as a warning, not something in the realm of possibility. However, before that book was penned, Judas was in a unique position, as the Son of Perdition, to be the only human to which that warning could be applied.
 
BibleLover said:
The issue of mandatory divorce aside, at the moment the unfaithful spouse embraces an outside person, they have, at that moment, rejected their own spouse. One can later regret the betrayal (as Judas did), but that has no bearing upon whether the rejected party is obligated to forgive the betrayal.

Today, it is commonly taught that Heb. 6:4-6 was an hypothetical example meant only to serve as a warning, not something in the realm of possibility. However, before that book was penned, Judas was in a unique position, as the Son of Perdition, to be the only human to which that warning could be applied.
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This is indeed an in-depth topic that one could ponder for some time. I agree that it's better to consider the matter on its own merits rather than to draw in parallels. We have both set aside each other's unrelated parallels, and I have no problem with that.

Any other thoughts out there from others?

MM
 
LearningToLetGo said:
Would Christ have been murdered had Judas not betrayed him? The betrayal has, to me, always seemed an essential part of the equation.
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no could he have repented? i think he could have but facts are he didnt its sad but he had to fulfill scripture .its evident Satan entered his heart. when he left it is noted it was dark. he repented of himself. then hung himself . so everything had to happen the way it did. but then again i may not know much
 
BL, something else for consideration is that none of the people at the time Judas committed suicide were yet filled with Holy Spirit. So, was that Light yet within him or anyone else? No. It wasn't.

Jesus revealed that the unpardonable sin was blaspheming Holy Spirit. Do you see Jesus having said that to him? I don't, so therefore my lingering doubts about what you're brought to the table thus far. When any of us sins, we betray Holy Spirit, but are not cast aside as a result. Sin is sin, except that of blasphemy against Holy Spirit. Can we agree with that?

I just like exploring the depths of the sufficiency of the Blood of Christ Jesus.

MM
 
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