Labour unions

Dec 19, 2014
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Does the Bible say anything about labour unions?
Yesterday there was a teacher's strike, the teachers are wanting better pay and working conditions. Teachers are paid by the government, and whoever is in power gets to decide the budget.

It is voluntary to join the union, but they have so called bargaining power to decide on collective agreements. Even if you dont join, you will come under a collective agreeement if you are a teacher.

I know the Bible says be content with your wages, but, teachers pay is very low, and not enough to live off if its a single income. Supoort staff, like me, are even less.

It does cost to join a union, I used to be in a public service union, and sometimes we got money back, and some special things like free doctors appointments and access to holiday home that I remember never taking advantage of, and time off for stop work meetings, but other than that, I'm not really convinced the unions have much say in things. When the govt decides to slash a budget, even striking wont cause them to change their minds.
:-(

I know people that leave the country cos they cant find decent jobs here. Cant raise families, cant afford homes. Want to teach, but caught up in needless bureaucracy. Have to pay for training and be in debt. For the rest of their lives it seems.
 
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justanothersinner

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I have heard that wages are low in new Zealand. That's why I see so many Kiwis here in Perth. But since the mining boom stopped, many have gone home.
Trade Unions are perhaps a necessary evil . I don't like their tactics sometimes but employers need to be held to account by someone. Otherwise they would pay you as little as possible.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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I have heard that wages are low in new Zealand. That's why I see so many Kiwis here in Perth. But since the mining boom stopped, many have gone home.
Trade Unions are perhaps a necessary evil . I don't like their tactics sometimes but employers need to be held to account by someone. Otherwise they would pay you as little as possible.
Am wondering who actually hold employers accountable. Anyone? Most of the employers I've worked for were shocking, many were cheap, miserly and bullies!

I was thinking maybe its something like a board, or stakeholders, but...it must be whoever owns the company calls the shots. If the company or organisation is just owned by one or a few priveliged people, they can make life a heaven or a hell for ther employees based on whatever decisions they make affecting their employees livelihoods. Many people end up taking two jobs or just working under the table.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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There is a government agency in Australia called The Fair Work Commission. They helped a woman in my company who was fired.
We have the Department of Labour which regulates the employment acts, but the problem is if its actually the govt employing you...so who holds the govt accountable? Also they can make some silly laws like the 90 day trial and employers can abuse it . Not to say employess dont also try and get round it but its more likely bullies are top down than from the bottom up.

I had a fellow christian lady make it her lifes mission to investigate whether you can have joy at work. For me it depends on the people and whether they treat you as a human being! She did many kinds of jobs but ended up partnering in a small business with her husband, the only thing now is he wants to retire and she doesnt. Because theres a big age difference between them...

I wonder if some employers just see employees as someone taking out a pay packet, a cost to bear. Not much different from slavery really, everyone has a price.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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Hmm was given matthew 23:1-6

Am not sure what thats referring to, what would be the Pharisees in todays world be..the management? Those in Management are often want to be called 'master' ...but isnt a rabbi a teacher? See verse 7-8

Or is it teachers are getting above themselves and ought to recognise that without Christ they cant even be teachers. Cos many teachers these days arent even teaching anything useful. Some are just copying stuff out of books...

When I look back on the teachers I had in school both primary and secondary, some were kind, but others I cant remember teaching me anything useful. I remember learning more from reading books in the library than being taught by a teacher. I could have stayed home and learned by correspondence to be honest.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Does the Bible say anything about labour unions?
Yesterday there was a teacher's strike, the teachers are wanting better pay and working conditions. Teachers are paid by the government, and whoever is in power gets to decide the budget.

It is voluntary to join the union, but they have so called bargaining power to decide on collective agreements. Even if you dont join, you will come under a collective agreeement if you are a teacher.

I know the Bible says be content with your wages, but, teachers pay is very low, and not enough to live off if its a single income. Supoort staff, like me, are even less.

It does cost to join a union, I used to be in a public service union, and sometimes we got money back, and some special things like free doctors appointments and access to holiday home that I remember never taking advantage of, and time off for stop work meetings, but other than that, I'm not really convinced the unions have much say in things. When the govt decides to slash a budget, even striking wont cause them to change their minds.
:-(

I know people that leave the country cos they cant find decent jobs here. Cant raise families, cant afford homes. Want to teach, but caught up in needless bureaucracy. Have to pay for training and be in debt. For the rest of their lives it seems.
NO.
 
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bobinfaith

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Does the Bible say anything about labour unions?
Yesterday there was a teacher's strike, the teachers are wanting better pay and working conditions. Teachers are paid by the government, and whoever is in power gets to decide the budget. It is voluntary to join the union, but they have so called bargaining power to decide on collective agreements. Even if you dont join, you will come under a collective agreeement if you are a teacher. I know the Bible says be content with your wages, but, teachers pay is very low, and not enough to live off if its a single income. Supoort staff, like me, are even less. It does cost to join a union, I used to be in a public service union, and sometimes we got money back, and some special things like free doctors appointments and access to holiday home that I remember never taking advantage of, and time off for stop work meetings, but other than that, I'm not really convinced the unions have much say in things. When the govt decides to slash a budget, even striking wont cause them to change their minds. :-( I know people that leave the country cos they cant find decent jobs here. Cant raise families, cant afford homes. Want to teach, but caught up in needless bureaucracy. Have to pay for training and be in debt. For the rest of their lives it seems.
I have heard that wages are low in new Zealand. That's why I see so many Kiwis here in Perth. But since the mining boom stopped, many have gone home. Trade Unions are perhaps a necessary evil . I don't like their tactics sometimes but employers need to be held to account by someone. Otherwise they would pay you as little as possible.
Hello Lanolin;

The Bible doesn't say anything about labour unions. What little knowledge I have about labor unions goes back to the early 20th century in the United States.

Labour unions versus Labor laws
During the latter part of the industrial revolution, early 20th century in the United States, children were working long hours, overtime hours, and were exploited to the max. Why? So employers could reap the profits for unfair labor from children. So the first unions were set up backed by the labor laws to protect all workers from being exploited for profit. There is some truth to what JAS posted about trade unions. Labor unions in these times are not required as indentified in the early 20th century but for a long time have become big business and profitable.

On the flip side, we currently have a teacher's strike in the Oakland area. The average salary for these teachers is $93,000.00 and their strike is to get 10% more money because its expensive to live here. Compare this to the average hourly wage in the United States which is $26.50 an hour. The median annual salary is $47,000.00.

Most employers in the US have complied more consciously to our labor laws, which (in my experience as a former employee and small business owner) protects the worker, actually more than the employer.

If the world pay heed to what James teaches there still would not be a need for labor protection.

James 5:4-5, 4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

Lanolin and JAS,
regarding New Zealand and Australia, I have read that both your countries, respectively, have higher employment growth and less unemployment in 2019. But does this mean the wages are competitive?

God bless you all and your families.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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Wages are very low and theres a push for the living wage (enough to live on!)
My past couple of jobs have always been below the proposed living wage. Although above the minimum.

It is very expensive to live in some cities nowadays because of land speculation has pushed housing prices up. But if you live somewhere thats cheaper, you might have to commute hours to your job as theres not many jobs avilable in the cheaper areas.

Yes I know loads of people whove moved to australia cos they just cant afford to live in nz. Wages seem to be better over there.
 
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Dec 19, 2014
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that's a full-time rate? if so it is higher than Australia. most casuals get 25 plus
Yea its full time.
I dont know what casual rate is for everyone else but I would charge at least $25 an hour if I was doing casual work.

I need to work several jobs as I dont get paid in school holidays either. At the moment im studying too so I do have a student allowance praise God. But I dont own a house or anything. Just live with folks.

My car would probably be my biggest expense, yesterday had to get services and it will need new brakes evenstually. But thankfully my new job is withing walking distance so I dont need to use the car every single day.
 

justanothersinner

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Yea its full time.
I dont know what casual rate is for everyone else but I would charge at least $25 an hour if I was doing casual work.

I need to work several jobs as I dont get paid in school holidays either. At the moment im studying too so I do have a student allowance praise God. But I dont own a house or anything. Just live with folks.

My car would probably be my biggest expense, yesterday had to get services and it will need new brakes evenstually. But thankfully my new job is withing walking distance so I dont need to use the car every single day.
I suggest you make it a priority to find a better paid job, even if that means moving. Or studying/retraining as you are doing. Financial independence really helps one's self esteem. Sorry to hear you struggling by the way. And good luck with that.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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I suggest you make it a priority to find a better paid job, even if that means moving. Or studying/retraining as you are doing. Financial independence really helps one's self esteem. Sorry to hear you struggling by the way. And good luck with that.
I didnt say I was struggling. If Im struggling everyone is but I dont live beyond my means.
And definitely not interested in moving to aussies. Sorry. But no thanks. Actually the grass is greener here. Literally.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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My thoughts are if theres profits from the business they ought to be shared with the workers who also invest in the business, not just a few stakeholders. If the organisation is owned by the people who work in it, then everyone wins. And they will want to work better to make it profitable for themsselves as well.

Many business and organisations are very lopsided and only generating profits for a select few people. Thats why theres so much gap between rich and poor. I dont know if my idea is like communism or not but i would think it makes sense for everyone.

Then theres also not for profit businesses and state owned enterprises different model again, but need to be aware that taxpayers fund this. Money thats put into these cannot be wasted on the priveliged few. Lots of people at the top make a truckload of money that they dont invest in their workers. Instead I just see them owning lots of property and going on overseas holidays all the time. They dont care about their workers.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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I get 25 dollars an hour as a cleaner. That is a casual rate.
School holidays we only work half the time.
There is a cry for better conditions for low paid workers now and the casualisation of the workforce does seem in employers favour.
I am no expert in way what so ever, but I can assure you that we do not pay $25.00 an hour to clean our church. We have someone that does that and they make $10.00 an hour.

If my math is right and someone should check it out but That would come out to be about $48,000 a year!!!! Don't lose that job!!!!

Dadgummed!!!! That is good money. Can you send me an application???????
 

justanothersinner

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I am no expert in way what so ever, but I can assure you that we do not pay $25.00 an hour to clean our church. We have someone that does that and they make $10.00 an hour.

If my math is right and someone should check it out but That would come out to be about $48,000 a year!!!! Don't lose that job!!!!

Dadgummed!!!! That is good money. Can you send me an application???????
but i only do 20 hours a week.
 

justanothersinner

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to clean our church. We have someone that does that and they make $10.00 an hour.
To my knowledge it is not common in Australia for Churches to pay cleaners to clean the Church. Most are volunteers.
And this raises an interesting side topic. I noticed on another Christian forum that it is common for Christian Churches in America to pay professional singers/musicians for their music industry. Is that right? In my experience, there are plenty of willing volunteers to take on the music ministry role in Catholic Churches in Australia. In some parishes it is almost competitive.
 
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