No One Has Seen God?

Nov 12, 2007
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No One Has Seen God?

In I John 4:12, it says, "No man has ever seen God at any time." But we all know that Abraham talked face to face with God. He saw him coming one day with two other men. It was God Himself. He walked right up to Abraham and talked to him.

Moses saw Him. Isaac Saw Him. God even looked like a man. So, does that verse mean something else?
 
Apr 21, 2009
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Good question - I love questions like this.

It is instances like these that cause me always to be open some other way of looking at scripture than tradition often gives us. I look forward to some insightful answers.

Aner
 
Nov 12, 2007
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Nice to meet ya, Aner. Yeah, I was just reading the Bible tonight and this verse just struck me because people in the Biblical times did see God. Jesus was God in the flesh, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about before the New Testament.

Bring it on, Boanerges. Give us a clue. :cool:
 
Mar 25, 2009
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Jesus lived before the new testament, he was there at the beginning of time, watching His people Israel until it was time to go down and save them from their sins.

so it is possible that what Abraham, Isaac, Moses, etc. have seen and interacted with was Jesus rather than God the Father. which makes sense because God the Father and Jesus are still the same God. and I think what 1 john 4:12 talks about is God the Father when it says no man has seen God
 
B

Boanerges(Inactive)

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In I John 4:12, it says, "No man has ever seen God at any time." But we all know that Abraham talked face to face with God. He saw him coming one day with two other men. It was God Himself. He walked right up to Abraham and talked to him.

Moses saw Him. Isaac Saw Him. God even looked like a man. So, does that verse mean something else?
My view:
Adam walked with God in the garden, Moses saw God's backside, Jacob wrestled with God , all the elders of Israel ate supper with God and Moses. All must have seen God and yet no man has seen God. The answer lies here:

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

These old testament saints saw Jesus Christ - no man has seen the Father God but many have seen Jesus Christ who is God. Christ Himself existed as God before time, He was the tree of life in the garden, He was the covering for Adam and Eves sin. He was the rock from which the water flowed to Israel. Jesus Christ the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world can be seen actively moving throughout the entire Word of God.
Ahh the joys and the mysteries of the Trinune God.:)
 
B

Boanerges(Inactive)

Guest
Jesus lived before the new testament, he was there at the beginning of time, watching His people Israel until it was time to go down and save them from their sins.

so it is possible that what Abraham, Isaac, Moses, etc. have seen and interacted with was Jesus rather than God the Father. which makes sense because God the Father and Jesus are still the same God. and I think what 1 john 4:12 talks about is God the Father when it says no man has seen God
Sorry friend I was short of time so I only read the OP- you were quite correct:D.
 

Dusty

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Jul 27, 2007
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My view:
Adam walked with God in the garden, Moses saw God's backside, Jacob wrestled with God , all the elders of Israel ate supper with God and Moses. All must have seen God and yet no man has seen God. The answer lies here:

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

These old testament saints saw Jesus Christ - no man has seen the Father God but many have seen Jesus Christ who is God. Christ Himself existed as God before time, He was the tree of life in the garden, He was the covering for Adam and Eves sin. He was the rock from which the water flowed to Israel. Jesus Christ the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world can be seen actively moving throughout the entire Word of God.
Ahh the joys and the mysteries of the Trinune God.:)
That's exactly right . God is a Spirit and all the examples in the OT were Jesus Christ because like others said already Jesus was with God since the beginning of time . . God could not come in flesh ... but Jesus can and did. Moses did not see God . The Shekinah Glory was so bright eminating from God that Moses had to wear a veil .

John 1:1-3.... " And God said " The divine Person speaking here is the word of God ----- Jesus , which in the beginning with God, and was God . The entire Trinity , not just the Father , had a role in creation . The Son is the powerful Word ; the Holy Spirit " breath " took an active role in the work of creation.
 
Nov 12, 2007
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Thank you so much for clearing that up. I guess, as a Mormon, I believed that Jesus was God's actual son in the flesh aftr God had relations with his wife, or one of his wives, so I'm still re-thinking everything. It's weird how mixed up I was. I appreciate all your answers.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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When you look in the OT what you see is two seporate thing when talking about god. When you read Lord think of Jesus Christ, when you read God they are talking about the father, and if you look hard enough you shall see the Spirit. God is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit all in one.
 
May 5, 2007
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God is spirit.you can,t see spirit,we see later God talked to saul through an animal.Gods spirit is in Christ ,and God and Christ are 1.God talked to moses through a burning bush.but the burning bush is not God .God is spirit.
 
Apr 7, 2009
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That's exactly right . God is a Spirit and all the examples in the OT were Jesus Christ because like others said already Jesus was with God since the beginning of time . . God could not come in flesh ... but Jesus can and did. Moses did not see God . The Shekinah Glory was so bright eminating from God that Moses had to wear a veil .
And I agree. For example..in this passage below Jacob wrestles with a "man"..yet this is said to be God. Bible Scholars often refer to this man as the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ.

Genesis 32:22-30 (NIV)

That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."
But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
The man asked him, "What is your name?"
"Jacob," he answered. Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome." Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."
But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
 

Barb-b

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Apr 21, 2008
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Thank you so much for clearing that up. I guess, as a Mormon, I believed that Jesus was God's actual son in the flesh aftr God had relations with his wife, or one of his wives, so I'm still re-thinking everything. It's weird how mixed up I was. I appreciate all your answers.
Do what??
 
Apr 7, 2009
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But, Deborah, why did God wrestle with Jacob in the first place? And why the new name?
Hi SweetSurrender, interesting questions. You'll get a good picture of "why" if you simply read back a couple of chapters in Genesis for a glimpse at Jacob's character. You will see Jacob was a 'supplanter', far from perfect. He was one who needed to change and had with his mother fooled his father into bestowing the blessing upon him instead of his brother, Esau, and so stole his own brother's birthright.

Sometimes in the bible names are changed after or as part of an experience with God and a major change in character. Another example would be Saul - to Paul in the New Testament which happened after his encounter with God on the road to Damascus.

So after the wrestling..God did change Jacob's name to Israel and from his descendents came the nation of Israel..thus Israelites.. In any event Jacob was changed at Peniel. Peniel, btw, means the "face of God."
 

Ginger

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Apr 14, 2008
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God can take on any form He wishes to appear to us in a way that won't literally scare us to death.

Jesus looked like a typical human being, yet he was indeed God. The fire that didn't consume the bush was a manifestation of God.

I'm not so sure every appearance is a pre-incarnate Jesus. Jesus is called God's Word, and when we look at him as any human form appearance of God,we make him sound like a separate being - like two deities instead of one.

The Son and Holy Spirit are not separate beings, but forms or manifestations of God Himself in ways that show us a portion of who God is. The purpose seems two-fold. One, that we cannot see God in His entirety and live, and two, these different manifestations of God appear to us in ways that we can understand.

Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus.

Jesus was fully God and fully man, but God is not a man.

The Holy Spirit is God, but God is not the Holy Spirit.

The fire that didn't consume the bush is God, but God is not a fire.

Some angelic being are really God, while other are created angels.
Some human beings in the OT are God, but it is not necessarily or entirely accurate to refer to them all as manifestations of Jesus. In fact, I doubt any were actually Jesus. Because the Word of God was prophesied to enter the world in a specific way and these OT men did not come that way, only Jesus did.

If all human manifestations of God are Jesus, why didn't God refer to Himself in the Garden as being the one who would return as an infant? We assume He was in human when He walked with Adam and Eve.

Ginger
 

Dusty

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Jul 27, 2007
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If all human manifestations of God are Jesus, why didn't God refer to Himself in the Garden as being the one who would return as an infant? We assume He was in human when He walked with Adam and Eve.
Good question Ginger and don't you think that Moses who wrote those books would not have understood that ? He only wrote what he was told and would not have had any idea and would not have known about Jesus . But as we read now we can see the coming Messiah and the fullfullment of Him .
 
Nov 12, 2007
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God can take on any form He wishes to appear to us in a way that won't literally scare us to death.

Jesus looked like a typical human being, yet he was indeed God. The fire that didn't consume the bush was a manifestation of God.

I'm not so sure every appearance is a pre-incarnate Jesus. Jesus is called God's Word, and when we look at him as any human form appearance of God,we make him sound like a separate being - like two deities instead of one.

The Son and Holy Spirit are not separate beings, but forms or manifestations of God Himself in ways that show us a portion of who God is. That makes sense. The purpose seems two-fold. One, that we cannot see God in His entirety and live, and two, these different manifestations of God appear to us in ways that we can understand.

Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus. This doesn't make sense. So, if God is not Jesus, but Jesus is God, then that would indicate that God is more important somehow, but Jesus can be sent by God to appear as a man because it's a part of God that humans can see and not be consumed.

Jesus was fully God and fully man, but God is not a man. Deep, deep thoughts! God is a spirit, right? And since God can do anything, He sends the part of Himself down to man so our finite minds can understand I think. Is that what you are getting at? It's still hard for me to see that they are not two separate persons. But, it's on the tip of my brain at least! hehe

The Holy Spirit is God, but God is not the Holy Spirit.

The fire that didn't consume the bush is God, but God is not a fire. Now, that's getting closer to being understandable. However, God is a bright light, because the Bible says there need not be light in heaven because God will be the light.

Some angelic being are really God, while other are created angels.
Some human beings in the OT are God, but it is not necessarily or entirely accurate to refer to them all as manifestations of Jesus. In fact, I doubt any were actually Jesus. Because the Word of God was prophesied to enter the world in a specific way and these OT men did not come that way, only Jesus did.

If all human manifestations of God are Jesus, why didn't God refer to Himself in the Garden as being the one who would return as an infant? We assume He was in human when He walked with Adam and Eve.

Ginger
I enjoyed your post, Ginger.
 
Oct 1, 2008
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Thank you so much for clearing that up. I guess, as a Mormon, I believed that Jesus was God's actual son in the flesh aftr God had relations with his wife, or one of his wives, so I'm still re-thinking everything. It's weird how mixed up I was. I appreciate all your answers.


God is Spirit (not a spirit) and does not have wife or wives. Jesus is God, together with Father and Holy Spirit. "No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side has made him known" (John 1:18). You see the answer to the question is in the same verse. No-one has ever seen him BUT God the One and Only (i.e. the Lord Jesus) has made him known. The Trinity is like Jesus in love, character, compassion..... We could go on and on with His attributes.

Whilst no-one has seen God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), because He dwells in light unapproachable. Our blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ came in human form, veiling his glory (Phil. 2:6-11) (Remember on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matt. 17:1-13 it was allowed to shine out from him and the three disciples could not look on him).

Thus we see God in human form with his glory veiled in our Lord Jesus.

God bless us all as we learn together.
 

Dusty

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Jul 27, 2007
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God is Spirit (not a spirit) and does not have wife or wives. Jesus is God, together with Father and Holy Spirit. "No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side has made him known" (John 1:18). You see the answer to the question is in the same verse. No-one has ever seen him BUT God the One and Only (i.e. the Lord Jesus) has made him known. The Trinity is like Jesus in love, character, compassion..... We could go on and on with His attributes.

Whilst no-one has seen God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), because He dwells in light unapproachable. Our blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ came in human form, veiling his glory (Phil. 2:6-11) (Remember on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matt. 17:1-13 it was allowed to shine out from him and the three disciples could not look on him).

Thus we see God in human form with his glory veiled in our Lord Jesus.

God bless us all as we learn together.
Very good explanation Jeanann . I know this is a very hard subject to wrap our minds around , because the question arises ... how could God be three in one ? But also it is something we will not understand fully and completely until we get to heaven and we need to accept God, Jesus and Holy spirit for who they are and the role they play in our lives . Acceptance to me errases a lot of the doubt .

I can be reassured that Christ is my Saviour and the Holy Spirit lives in me and God is my Heavenly Father . And the more we trust in Him the more all comes together and we can accept knowing that all things work together for good to them that love the Lord .

As I get deeper in my faith, all of the triune , although sometimes hard to understand are my life and I live to please Him in whom I am called .
 
Apr 23, 2009
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Why the new name for Jacob to Isreal??? look at the meanings of each and you will see why the new name he became a new man after the match with God, so he had to have a new name.
Jacob one who follows (hebrew word ya qob)
Isreal he struggles with Gol[el] (hebrew word yisrael)
He was not just a follower any more, but he had met God and now he had the promise of the blessing truly given unto him and not Amelek's father Esau.
Why the new name because he was a changed man, then and forever.
I wonder if he often thought back to that night and his salvation.