Not sure how to answer this

[bobinfaith]

You stated, "God also does not let bad things happen to good people. " I am sure that is not the case and would refer to Job for a scriptural example. I think if God does allow, so called, bad things to happen to good people, by faith we have to believe it is part of God's plan and it has a purpose, that at first, we may not understand. But I believe as taught in (Romans 8:28), that if we have faith and love the Lord, all things will be revealed for the purpose it was intended and not remain hidden.

I agree with what you said about a free will and would only add that the "prince of the air, the evil one, the devil, has domain over this world and our only hope when confronted by evil, weather you are the attacker or the attacked, is to put on the armor of God and appropriate the power that that God has made available to us to resist the flaming arrows of the evil one. ( Ephesian 6:16 )

John

Hello John,

Yes, you are correct that in parts of the Old and New Testaments God may have allowed alot of bad things to happen to good people. The Scriptures you provide supports how God works all things for the good of those who love Him.

The verb of this topic for Bob, and for all of us is for those who may be in the thick of horrific circumstances, such as Job, and that our suffering may force us to question our faith and blame God for evil that breeds evil, or when bad things happen to good people. At one point Job wanted God to take his life.

What the Bible speaks to me in Job and other parts of the Old and New Testaments, is the bad things that happen to good people is not what God allowed. In verse 1:12 Job ESV, 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

"is in your hand". Only against him do not stretch our your hand. So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

This passage is saying that God allowed a certain amount of freewill to Satan, but with hard restrictions. The choice of freewill was Satan's but and would not allow him to bring death to Job. Satan knew God would not play fair with him. God was already setting Satan up to fail but immediately was protecting Job and allowed his servant to bear the suffering as God would deliver him.

If we are to say God allows bad things to happen to good people, then we're saying God plays fair with evil doers and sinners. Sin is rebellion against God, and deceptive with believers. It's irrational and destructive. It would also contradict the many passages in the Old and New Testaments where the Lord is our protector for all who believe, no matter when darkness befalls us.

John, I'm not saying either one of us is wrong. My interpretation of the text differs from yours and stand by my convictions. But I'm challenged to read these passages over and deeper, and would like to continue discussing this with you.

In the meantime, lets continue to pray for our friend, Bob, and others who may be blaming God for their trials.

God bless you, John, and your family.

 

[sandpiper]

Just inserting here after reading these posts I really have nothing I can add as they are all so well said. They have brought to mind, however, the words of an old song some of you, like me, may have learned and sung a long time ago.

"Have your own way, Lord,

Have your own way.

You are the potter and we are the clay"

 

[bobinfaith]

I am reminded of the teaching of Jesus in the Lord's prayer, which shows us that God prefers to deliver us from evil and not lead us into trials (a better translation from the Greek word than temptation, as God tempts no-one and does not want us to sin, so never leads us into temptation). This is why Jesus taught us to pray this, because God's heart of love prefers to bless and deliver us from the evil that harms us. He is our heavenly Father who wants His children to have life and more abundantly.

This means that any trial we do end up going through cannot be avoided, as it was with Jesus in the garden of Gesthemane when He prayed that God would take the cup of suffering from Him if there was any way it could happen. There was no other way that evil would be disarmed and dealt with forever, and so He suffered for us. God has personally tasted the evils of this world. He has not stood aloof and watched us suffer without compassion and constant intervention, help, healing and deliverance. He has beautiful compassion for your friend Bob and is always with Him, as He is with every unwell and suffering person, because He is love. I am in awe of his faith considering his circumstances and look to such people with honour and respect. No doubt he could teach us all many things about patient endurance.

It makes sense of evil for me to understand that there was no other way to end evil forever, than for God to create this world, allow the Fall of humankind and all the suffering that has resulted, and in so doing show us and all the angels exactly how unthinkable evil and suffering is. In this way no angel will ever rebel again and neither will we, once we are angels, and evil will be over forever. We will live in a painless, war-free and suffering-free Paradise always. This shows us what God really wants for all of us. He is the Prince of Peace.

This, for me personally, is worth the suffering I have experienced throughout my life - and I was abused as a child and have been chronically unwell for 25 years, largely house-bound for years now due to UV sensitivity that worsens my auto-immune symptoms. We all have a story of some kind; a reason to wonder if God knows what He is doing and why He is doing it this way. Knowing the big picture of how noble and unavoidable God's purpose is makes a wonderful difference. May we prove worthy of taking any part in His purpose by our patient endurance that builds our character and makes us like Jesus.

Blessings.

Hello Mouse;

Thank you for your beautiful post and it gave me time to think about the current physical health of my wife and me, especially after her recent surgery. There was a time when we both were active in sports and had so much energy to be joiners and doers of many activities.

My wife had knee surgery on her left leg in 2010 and last week she had knee replacement surgery on her right leg and is healing at home.

Last month I was prescribed a "boot" and diabetic shoes for my right foot because the tendon has worn down. I'm hesitant to go jogging, play softball or volleyball because of the way I may land on my right foot.

After my wife heals she won't be able to do things, like go for a long walk at Cyrstal Springs Lake, Pacifica Beach or Golden Gate Park.

These last months I had these sudden thoughts and was feeling our lives have become a bit limited, health wise and in some way I blame God for allowing our physical condition to be what it has become. I can do so much more to serve God, physically besides spiritually. I know better but still had these thoughts.

Your post shared is we all have our life situations not so unique from each other. You also wrote;

We all have a story of some kind; a reason to wonder if God knows what He is doing and why He is doing it this way. Knowing the big picture of how noble and unavoidable God's purpose is makes a wonderful difference. May we prove worthy of taking any part in His purpose by our patient endurance that builds our character and makes us like Jesus. - Mouse

Your timely reminder is a God send and will include in my prayers and our health situation to the Lord.

God bless you, Mouse, and your family.

 

[Ravindran]

I all, I have a question and general commentary.

This morning, I was engaged in a conversation with a good long-time friend (phone). My friend, Bob, made a comment that I tried to reply to, but was unsure of how. Since I am still dealing with the newness of my re-faith, I did not want to provide a wrong comment: Bob made the comment that, "if there is a God, He is responsible for the evil people do to each other" and the fact God lets "bad things happen to good people."

Some background on my friend: Bob is a really good person that I have known for almost 30 years; we served in the US Army together in Germany and DC. He retired, medically, in 2009. Aside from some serious spinal damage that requires him to spend most of his time in a wheel-chair, he was also diagnosed with a rare type of cancer. He is in remission for over five years; however, he can't hardly stand on his own and looks like he is starting to show additional physical issues with his right hand/arm. Bob is divorced and has two grown sons. He lives by himself and is financially very stable.

Bob claims be believes in God, but is not sure He is whom we believe He is. Bob is also not into organized religion.

So, how best do I remark about Bob's comments?

rtm3039

I think this is a very common question. People try to credit evil to God simply because He allowed it to happen and did not stop it from happening completely. If God is not using Holy Spirit as "Restrainer", things are not going to look like this. This is one topic Ravi Zacharias has talked and preached a lot about. if you search YouTube you will find lot of videos from him. He even wrote a book about this. I would suggest your friend to spend some time to get his questions answered. This is not something you can help him understand with a simple answer. You guide him, provide resources that would allow him to think on it. And be there for him as he faces more questions on his journey to discovering truth!!

 

[rtm3039]

I think this is a very common question. People try to credit evil to God simply because He allowed it to happen and did not stop it from happening completely. If God is not using Holy Spirit as "Restrainer", things are not going to look like this. This is one topic Ravi Zacharias has talked and preached a lot about. if you search YouTube you will find lot of videos from him. He even wrote a book about this. I would suggest your friend to spend some time to get his questions answered. This is not something you can help him understand with a simple answer. You guide him, provide resources that would allow him to think on it. And be there for him as he faces more questions on his journey to discovering truth!!

Hi Revindran. Bob is not the type of person you can push one way or the other. We have known each other for a very long time. When I retired from the military, back in 2003, we bought a house in Mt. Vernon and Bob would come over and helped me paid the place. At the time, he was physically fir, but his journey was starting. I last saw him 7 years ago, when the wife and I traveled back to DC to attend our son’s wedding. By then, he was already walking with the assistance of crutches. Since then, he has had to deal with cancer, had to move about in a wheelchair, and now he is going through additional atrophy of his right arm and hand.

We do not see each other very often, but we talk on the phone almost daily. He is one of my closest friends.

I remember talking to him, many years ago and before the wheelchair. He always told me he was not going to do well with a wheelchair, but he is dealing with it now. He is only 63, so it has to be hard for him to spend almost the entire week in his apartment and alone.

I suspect that, as the degradation of his body continues, there will come a time when he will not be able to take care of himself. As it is now, he has someone come in once a week to clean his apartment. I suspect, as he continues to deal with his immortality, he will continue to search and, hopefully, start looking more into his faith. Until then, I am just here to help.

 

[bobinfaith]

When I retired from the military, back in 2003, we bought a house in Mt. Vernon and Bob would come over and helped me paid the place. At the time, he was physically fir, but his journey was starting. We do not see each other very often, but we talk on the phone almost daily. He is one of my closest friends.

Hello rtm3039;

I was encouraged when Bob came over and helped you paint your home. Now today living apart between D.C. and Miami, you stay in touch almost daily on the phone. Just that alone means alot to your long time friend.

James 1:22, 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

Besides praying for Bob, you stay in touch with him. I feel this is your ministry, Ray. Press on!

By the way, were you stationed in Germany while serving? When Dad was stationed in Germany we were at Rhein Main Air Force-Army Base.

God bless you and your family.

 

[rtm3039]

Hello rtm3039;

I was encouraged when Bob came over and helped you paint your home. Now today living apart between D.C. and Miami, you stay in touch almost daily on the phone. Just that alone means alot to your long time friend.

James 1:22, 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

Besides praying for Bob, you stay in touch with him. I feel this is your ministry, Ray. Press on!

By the way, were you stationed in Germany while serving? When Dad was stationed in Germany we were at Rhein Main Air Force-Army Base.

God bless you and your family.

Yes, Bob and I go back a long ways. There have been more than one occasion, when he has been there for me, so I look forward to any opportunity to return the favor.

And yes, I did serve in Germany. Did two tours,which collectively were about 10 years. I started off in a place called grafenwoehr , Germany. My second tour included Heidelberg, Mannheim, Ilesheim, and Ansbach Germany. They were all Army basis, so I understand is none of them ring a bell.

And may God continue to bless you and your family

rtm3039

 

[thorndale]

Hello John,

Yes, you are correct that in parts of the Old and New Testaments God may have allowed alot of bad things to happen to good people. The Scriptures you provide supports how God works all things for the good of those who love Him.

The verb of this topic for Bob, and for all of us is for those who may be in the thick of horrific circumstances, such as Job, and that our suffering may force us to question our faith and blame God for evil that breeds evil, or when bad things happen to good people. At one point Job wanted God to take his life.

What the Bible speaks to me in Job and other parts of the Old and New Testaments, is the bad things that happen to good people is not what God allowed. In verse 1:12 Job ESV, 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

"is in your hand". Only against him do not stretch our your hand. So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

This passage is saying that God allowed a certain amount of freewill to Satan, but with hard restrictions. The choice of freewill was Satan's but and would not allow him to bring death to Job. Satan knew God would not play fair with him. God was already setting Satan up to fail but immediately was protecting Job and allowed his servant to bear the suffering as God would deliver him.

If we are to say God allows bad things to happen to good people, then we're saying God plays fair with evil doers and sinners. Sin is rebellion against God, and deceptive with believers. It's irrational and destructive. It would also contradict the many passages in the Old and New Testaments where the Lord is our protector for all who believe, no matter when darkness befalls us.

John, I'm not saying either one of us is wrong. My interpretation of the text differs from yours and stand by my convictions. But I'm challenged to read these passages over and deeper, and would like to continue discussing this with you.

In the meantime, lets continue to pray for our friend, Bob, and others who may be blaming God for their trials.

God bless you, John, and your family.

If we are to say God allows bad things to happen to good people, then we're saying God plays fair with evil doers and sinners. I am sure I didn't say that or infer that to be the case! I am not a theologian and only try to interpret the scriptures as the Holy Spirit leads me. Suffice it to say I am and remain a work in progress! I am saying, as I read the scriptures, that it seems to me, that God does allow bad things to happen to good people! I am not saying I always understand God's purposes, I think the word is "Folly" when trying to do that? I also believe that God will never allow us, believers, to be tempted beyond our ability to discern the proper course of action when tempted. When God tests His creations, Job & Abram would be examples in the old testament and just one that jumps out in the new testament would be Stephen. Of course Jesus would be the ultimate example of "Bad Things" and because of the Gospel, we understand the why of it!

Sin is rebellion I think sometimes we just stumble, but I wouldn't attempt to debate your interpretation! against God, and deceptive with believers.

It's irrational and destructive. ( I wonder if Paul would agree? Romans 7:16-21 ) It would also contradict the many passages in the Old and New Testaments where the Lord is our protector for all who believe, no matter when darkness befalls us. That is true, but it doesn't refute the initial statement that God never allows bad things to happen to good people?

John, I'm not saying either one of us is wrong. My interpretation of the text differs from yours and stand by my convictions. But I'm challenged to read these passages over and deeper, and would like to continue discussing this with you.

In the meantime, lets continue to pray for our friend, Bob, and others who may be blaming God for their trials. Amen

God bless you and yours!

 

[bobinfaith]

If we are to say God allows bad things to happen to good people, then we're saying God plays fair with evil doers and sinners. I am sure I didn't say that or infer that to be the case! I am not a theologian and only try to interpret the scriptures as the Holy Spirit leads me. Suffice it to say I am and remain a work in progress! I am saying, as I read the scriptures, that it seems to me, that God does allow bad things to happen to good people! I am not saying I always understand God's purposes, I think the word is "Folly" when trying to do that? I also believe that God will never allow us, believers, to be tempted beyond our ability to discern the proper course of action when tempted. When God tests His creations, Job & Abram would be examples in the old testament and just one that jumps out in the new testament would be Stephen. Of course Jesus would be the ultimate example of "Bad Things" and because of the Gospel, we understand the why of it!

Sin is rebellion I think sometimes we just stumble, but I wouldn't attempt to debate your interpretation! against God, and deceptive with believers.

It's irrational and destructive. ( I wonder if Paul would agree? Romans 7:16-21 ) It would also contradict the many passages in the Old and New Testaments where the Lord is our protector for all who believe, no matter when darkness befalls us. That is true, but it doesn't refute the initial statement that God never allows bad things to happen to good people?

John, I'm not saying either one of us is wrong. My interpretation of the text differs from yours and stand by my convictions. But I'm challenged to read these passages over and deeper, and would like to continue discussing this with you.

In the meantime, lets continue to pray for our friend, Bob, and others who may be blaming God for their trials. Amen

God bless you and yours!

Hello brother John;

Thank you for your reply. After our last discussion I went into prayer and while attending my Monday evening class, I brought up the topic of God allowing bad things to happen to good people. My classmates were divided because there were so many responses, but it allowed both sides to share so everybody could understand each other's context of Scripture in the Bible.

Paul's confession in Roman's 7:16-21 is less the Holy Spirit in our choice with freewill - "freedom of choice", whether to be obedient or disobedient, to love or hate, to sin or not sin. Without the Holy Spirit we struggle with our desire to do good with evil around the corner.

John, in just the short time we met I'm happy to fellowship with you, am blessed by your knowledge of the Bible and sharing what the Lord is saying to you and all of us in Scripture.

Thank you, brother, and God bless you and your family.

 

[mouse]

Hello Mouse;

Thank you for your beautiful post and it gave me time to think about the current physical health of my wife and me, especially after her recent surgery. There was a time when we both were active in sports and had so much energy to be joiners and doers of many activities.

My wife had knee surgery on her left leg in 2010 and last week she had knee replacement surgery on her right leg and is healing at home.

Last month I was prescribed a "boot" and diabetic shoes for my right foot because the tendon has worn down. I'm hesitant to go jogging, play softball or volleyball because of the way I may land on my right foot.

After my wife heals she won't be able to do things, like go for a long walk at Cyrstal Springs Lake, Pacifica Beach or Golden Gate Park.

These last months I had these sudden thoughts and was feeling our lives have become a bit limited, health wise and in some way I blame God for allowing our physical condition to be what it has become. I can do so much more to serve God, physically besides spiritually. I know better but still had these thoughts.

Your post shared is we all have our life situations not so unique from each other. You also wrote;

We all have a story of some kind; a reason to wonder if God knows what He is doing and why He is doing it this way. Knowing the big picture of how noble and unavoidable God's purpose is makes a wonderful difference. May we prove worthy of taking any part in His purpose by our patient endurance that builds our character and makes us like Jesus. - Mouse

Your timely reminder is a God send and will include in my prayers and our health situation to the Lord.

God bless you, Mouse, and your family.

Thank you so much for your encouragement. I haven’t been here for a while so have only just seen it. I am so glad I have helped. God is with you always and He will bless you in whatever situation you find yourselves all your lives. My husband has diabetes so I sympathize with your situation. Hugs to you both.

 

[Saul Mine]

"He is responsible for the evil people do to each other" and the fact God lets "bad things happen to good people."

You say you were in the Army, so you would understand that a general always takes full responsibility for anything his troops do, even if it's wrong. Well, so does God. Our God is the God of rightness. If you kick a curb, your foot is going to hurt because that is the consequence of kicking a curb. It's not because God made it hurt, but God is forced to allow it to hurt.

Hebrew has a special verb form for that. It is translated "he did" but actually means "he was forced to allow." That explains why God can't just knock Satan in the head and steal the world back: He had to buy back the world, and the price was the death of His son.

 

[rtm3039]

You say you were in the Army, so you would understand that a general always takes full responsibility for anything his troops do, even if it's wrong. Well, so does God. Our God is the God of rightness. If you kick a curb, your foot is going to hurt because that is the consequence of kicking a curb. It's not because God made it hurt, but God is forced to allow it to hurt.

Hebrew has a special verb form for that. It is translated "he did" but actually means "he was forced to allow." That explains why God can't just knock Satan in the head and steal the world back: He had to buy back the world, and the price was the death of His son.

Thank you Sir. It is a bit complicated, but I am starting to better understand things. As for my friend, the one who initially made the comment, he is just angry at religion. I believe it, when he says he believes in God, it's just the organized religion part that he has an issue with. He was raised as a Roman Catholic and issues appear to be the conduct of some priests and his opinion that religious is all about collecting money to pay themselves.

I tried talking to him about this, but he pushed back really hard and I could tell that he wanted no part of the conversation. I believe there is more to his anger than he wants to tell me, but it is up to him how much he wants to make public.

rtm3039