On Richness and Poverty

[aha]

Good Virtue invites wealth and riches …. in the same manner that bad vices invites poverty...

as I see it: that is an individual action….

Poverty can be not an individual action … it can be a failure of community of man….of a nation warring against nations, of poor governance, of an economy design, of seasonal/weather changes affecting harvest/agriculture….

In Richness and in Poverty…. in whatever situations we have: we are conquerors....

richness may invite us to worry/temptations... in the same manner that poverty can invite us to worry/temptation….

in whatever situations we have: we are more than conquerors: Romans 8

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Good Virtue invites wealth and riches …. in the same manner that bad vices invites poverty...

as I see it: that is an individual action….

Poverty can be not an individual action … it can be a failure of community of man….of a nation warring against nations, of poor governance, of an economy design, of seasonal/weather changes affecting harvest/agriculture….

In Richness and in Poverty…. in whatever situations we have: we are conquerors....

richness may invite us to worry/temptations... in the same manner that poverty can invite us to worry/temptation….

in whatever situations we have: we are more than conquerors: Romans 8

Through Christ and in Christ we are more then conquerors but if you do not know who you are in Christ this does you no good.

If we are in lack (poverty) or in Plenty (Blessing) we are to be content which means full of Joy of The Lord and Faith and Love.
What this DOES NOT SAY IS that we are to except this lack or poverty or sickness as out lot in life or it is Gods will for me to be in lack.

Lack tries to cause you to worry or be fearful or doubt religion teaches us that blessings of wealth or finances will cause worry or fear or sin or ruin us.
God said the love of Money is the root of all evil
This says money is first priority. This says money is our god and main goal in life.
What it DOES NOT SAY...is that money is sin or unGoldy or evil.

God said you can not serve both mammon and God
People say mammon is money or wealth and they are wrong. Mammon is a way of life or another words get it at any cost no matter what. Greed is mammon as well/
Another words you serve God or you serve things or the way of the world which is simply put the Babylonian System.

Blerssings
Jim

 

[/]

God has a plan for our life. If we should be wealthy, we shall be; if we should be poor, we shall be.
What we should cherish over wealth is the Lord our God. He will give us what we need, not what we want.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

God has a plan for our life. If we should be wealthy, we shall be; if we should be poor, we shall be.
What we should cherish over wealth is the Lord our God. He will give us what we need, not what we want.

So you feel that if we stay poor and lacking then it is what God wants ?
You cherish God in any and all situations

 

[/]

So you feel that if we stay poor and lacking then it is what God wants ?
You cherish God in any and all situations

Basically God doesn't want us to suffer so He will not put us in these situations.
If we are poor perhaps God feels it isn't time for us to have wealth yet.
I like to think of it as a test of faith. When one is poor, you tent to find a greater strength of faith; when one is wealthy the faith in some not all cases takes a back seat.
I was saying it was a test.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Basically God doesn't want us to suffer so He will not put us in these situations.
If we are poor perhaps God feels it isn't time for us to have wealth yet.
I like to think of it as a test of faith. When one is poor, you tent to find a greater strength of faith; when one is wealthy the faith in some not all cases takes a back seat.
I was saying it was a test.

Yea we all go through periods of stretching our faith especially before he is getting ready to do something in our lives. Those who prosper biblically prosper through His word and love and provision He has already placed before us. If we truly have put God first place in ourlives, Brother there is nothing that can take away from our rememberance from where we have come from.

Another words never forgetting it was God who brought you out of poverty and has given you of His wealth. Like you said for some it could be a down fall but then again if you can not be faithful and trusted with little then how can you exspect God to give you much ?
This time of faith testing as you said seems to be a time God is working in us preparing us to be able to handle His prosperity in our lives according to His word and ways.

If any one places or desires any kind of prosperity towards relationships or jobs or finances or health without Keeping Him first then He will not be behind it and it will not benifit you long. Seek Him and His righteousness FIRST then these things will be added unto you.
Ity has always been this way and it always will be this way. God shall be First and Most important or everything else will fall away and benifit you nothing.

Blessings
From one Fish to another lol
Jim

 

[KingJ]

So you feel that if we stay poor and lacking then it is what God wants ?
You cherish God in any and all situations

Would you say a rich man who drives a ferarri, lives in a mansion and owns a rolex... cherishes orphans in Africa / the heart of God per James 1:27? Yes or No?

 

[Euphemia]

Would you say a rich man who drives a ferarri, lives in a mansion and owns a rolex... cherishes orphans in Africa / the heart of God per James 1:27? Yes or No?

If his heart was to serve the Lord with His resources, then he is most likely doing more for the poor and needy than any of us are. You cannot judge the heart. You do not know what every Christian does in secret to please their Father.

Matthew 6:2-4 (PHILLIPS)
2-4 “So, when you do good to other people, don’t hire a trumpeter to go in front of you—like those play-actors in the synagogues and streets who make sure that men admire them. Believe me, they have had all the reward they are going to get! No, when you give to charity, don’t even let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be secret. Your Father who knows all secrets will reward you.

 

[KingJ]

If his heart was to serve the Lord with His resources, then he is most likely doing more for the poor and needy than any of us are. You cannot judge the heart. You do not know what every Christian does in secret to please their Father.

If I see a rich guy driving a ferrari past an orphanage battling to feed the kids properly.......I will not ever in this life or the next think of that rich guy as a Christian. This is where you and I disagree 100%. You somehow think there is something else going on in his heart....like he is unaware of the fact that poor orphans will see him in his ferrari. Now if we were to talk a bout a pastor in that ferarri....the non Christian status is qaudrupled in my mind.

Please understand, I am not saying you cannot live lavishly with money. I am just saying, don't call yourself a Christian if you do. Christianity 101 = modesty / ambassador for Jesus / heart for the orphans, poor and widows.

We must be reading different bibles! I think we should put this to a vote.

 

[Euphemia]

If I see a rich guy driving a ferrari past an orphanage battling to feed the kids properly.......I will not ever in this life or the next think of that rich guy as a Christian. This is where you and I disagree 100%. You somehow think there is something else going on in his heart....like he is unaware of the fact that poor orphans will see him in his ferrari. Now if we were to talk a bout a pastor in that ferarri....the non Christian status is qaudrupled in my mind.

Please understand, I am not saying you cannot live lavishly with money. I am just saying, don't call yourself a Christian if you do. Christianity 101 = modesty / ambassador for Jesus / heart for the orphans, poor and widows.

We must be reading different bibles!

Have fun judging people's hearts, when it is only God's job to do so. This kind of judgment is not unlike the avaricious judgment of Judas over the woman's decision to break a vial of nard to anoint the feet of our Saviour.

We are reading the same bible, but with different levels of insight.

 

[KingJ]

Have fun judging people's hearts, when it is only God's job to do so. This kind of judgment is not unlike the avaricious judgment of Judas over the woman's decision to break a vial of nard to anoint the feet of our Saviour.

We are reading the same bible, but with different levels of insight.

You think I am playing God by looking at fruits?

You think my accusation of Christians living lavishly with money is on par with Judas mocking the woman for the vial of nard?

She gave what she had / she did what she could. Jesus saw and knew that. If she was trying to show off, He would have rebuked her. Now, if she was touched by Jesus she would have gone to sell her 'extra' wealth and live modestly. Her love for the orphans > her love for almas caviar .

''Different levels of insight''. Yes, agreed. I pray for the day that you can put yourself in the shoes of a poor orphan who sees a preacher drive past in their luxurious / over the top vehicle to courier them from A to B. A pastor should be the last person in the congregation to drive an extra luxuruious vehicle. Even if its from his own wealth.

 

[Euphemia]

You think I am playing God by looking at fruits?

You think my accusation of Christians living lavishly with money is on par with Judas mocking the woman for the vial of nard?

She gave what she had / she did what she could. Jesus saw and knew that. If she was trying to show off, He would have rebuked her. Now, if she was touched by Jesus she would have gone to sell her 'extra' wealth and live modestly. Her love for the orphans > her love for almas caviar .

''Different levels of insight''. Yes, agreed. I pray for the day that you can put yourself in the shoes of a poor orphan who sees a preacher drive past in their luxurious / over the top vehicle to courier them from A to B. A pastor should be the last person in the congregation to drive an extra luxuruious vehicle. Even if its from his own wealth.

I don't see you saying you are looking at fruit. What I see you saying you do is to look at the evidence of financial wealth and thinking that is fruit.

God will bless with more those servants of His whom He can trust to do what He desires with the resources He gives. Where He can see that He can trust His children with little, He sends them more.

 

[KingJ]

I don't see you saying you are looking at fruit. What I see you saying you do is to look at the evidence of financial wealth and thinking that is fruit.

What they do with their money (cough, don't do) is their fruit (cough, not fruit)...

So, yes you are right. I am not looking at fruit. Because there is none ...

A pastor who feels the need to drive a super expensive car, feels the need to drive a super expensive car because..... he does not feel the need to sponsor 'Arabs for Jesus' or one of the millions of orphanages that exist in every country in the world .

There are Matt 7:22 Christians and then there are James 1:27 Christians.

 

[Euphemia]

What they do with their money (cough, don't do) is their fruit (cough, not fruit)...

I see awesome fruit from my pastors' lives.

So, yes you are right. I am not looking at fruit. Because there is none ...

You are judge and jury of all pastors? If your own is a failure in this area, then tend to your own responsibility and speak to him.

A pastor who feels the need to drive a super expensive car, feels the need to drive a super expensive car because..... he does not feel the need to sponsor 'Arabs for Jesus' or one of the millions of orphanages that exist in every country in the world .

There are Matt 7:22 Christians and then there are James 1:27 Christians.

How do you know how much your pastor spent for his car? My pastor gets great deals because God blesses Him for his excellent application of money sense.

 

[aha]

Basically God doesn't want us to suffer so He will not put us in these situations.
If we are poor perhaps God feels it isn't time for us to have wealth yet.
I like to think of it as a test of faith. When one is poor, you tent to find a greater strength of faith; when one is wealthy the faith in some not all cases takes a back seat.
I was saying it was a test.

Yea we all go through periods of stretching our faith especially before he is getting ready to do something in our lives. Those who prosper biblically prosper through His word and love and provision He has already placed before us. If we truly have put God first place in ourlives, Brother there is nothing that can take away from our rememberance from where we have come from.

Another words never forgetting it was God who brought you out of poverty and has given you of His wealth. Like you said for some it could be a down fall but then again if you can not be faithful and trusted with little then how can you exspect God to give you much ?
This time of faith testing as you said seems to be a time God is working in us preparing us to be able to handle His prosperity in our lives according to His word and ways.

If any one places or desires any kind of prosperity towards relationships or jobs or finances or health without Keeping Him first then He will not be behind it and it will not benifit you long. Seek Him and His righteousness FIRST then these things will be added unto you.
Ity has always been this way and it always will be this way. God shall be First and Most important or everything else will fall away and benifit you nothing.

Blessings
From one Fish to another lol
Jim

I agree, thanks....
I think both post is nearer to how I see, my understanding right now...

 

[KingJ]

1. I see awesome fruit from my pastors' lives.

2. You are judge and jury of all pastors? If your own is a failure in this area, then tend to your own responsibility and speak to him.

3. How do you know how much your pastor spent for his car? My pastor gets great deals because God blesses Him for his excellent application of money sense.

1. Such as? I would like to discern if it is fruit from convenience or fruit from desire.
2. Every pastor that spends money lavishly as a norm for himself has not got a heart after God, yes. That they give some to the needy is actually irrelevant, please try understand that.
3. You are changing the subject.

 

[aha]

If we are in lack (poverty) or in Plenty (Blessing) we are to be content which means full of Joy of The Lord and Faith and Love.

Amen. in what ever situation we are in, all things work together for good.... come poverty, come riches....

Lack tries to cause you to worry or be fearful or doubt religion teaches us that blessings of wealth or finances will cause worry or fear or sin or ruin us.

Regarding Lack: it taught me perseverance, hope, trust.

Regarding Wealth, hmm religion not so…. more of a personal experience.
Wealth brought me to be over than what was written, that is, I did not handle it well….

Kindly note that the above is replying post#2.... the point being taken there, as i see, is different in post# 6.

I like to thank you as well reading your post.....I know there a lot for me to learn more on our Faith...

Thanks be to God for all the blessings...

 

[Mykuhl]

1. Such as? I would like to discern if it is fruit from convenience or fruit from desire.
2. Every pastor that spends money lavishly as a norm for himself has not got a heart after God, yes. That they give some to the needy is actually irrelevant, please try understand that.
3. You are changing the subject.

I agree with point number 2, and this applies to any true Christian.
The story about the poor widow giving her last mite illustrates this perfectly. Jesus said that she gave more than everyone else because she gave everything she had to live on while the others gave out of their abundance. It is a heart matter.

 

[Euphemia]

1. Such as? I would like to discern if it is fruit from convenience or fruit from desire.

New believers coming to Christ every week, and who are baptized, discipled and set in as fruitful members themselves is a big fruit.

2. Every pastor that spends money lavishly as a norm for himself has not got a heart after God, yes. That they give some to the needy is actually irrelevant, please try understand that.

You have no clue. A pastor or anyone who has what looks like wealth doesn't mean that he is overly wealthy, but that God takes care of him/her and blesses him/her with abundance in all areas of life. It's God's blessing you disdain.

3. You are changing the subject.

No, I am not changing the subject. You are looking at people from the outside and making false judgments about them. That's shallowness.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Would you say a rich man who drives a ferarri, lives in a mansion and owns a rolex... cherishes orphans in Africa / the heart of God per James 1:27? Yes or No?

KJ,
Once again you are speaking from a narrowe minded view and have no real understanding.
You say because a pastor has nice things or fasncy things then he is in sin because of all this other stuff. What have you done ? How much have you helped?

Further more until you actually know what any pastor hasd done or what God has directed the pastor to do you really should just be quiet. Everything you speak about any of this is simply your own view and lacks wisdom.