Pride: how does it reveal itself?

Via dolarossa

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Inspired by bob willes post on suffering, I thought I’d start a thread on the ways in which pride shows itself.

Pride, as a dictionary definition:

a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.

That’s an easy definition. I’m aware of these feelings when I’ve done something I think is great. After all, when I’ve done something I think is great, I’m not exactly suffering. So maybe Biblical pride is deeper than that. More subtle maybe( after all the devil was a wily beast)

But I never noticed or really thought further about the role pride plays in our suffering before. When I’m deeply suffering, the last thing I think about is that I’m being proud.

When pride shows up in our sufferings,
What are the ways in which it can reveal itself?

thanks
 

Via dolarossa

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Does excuses count?
like when I’m making excuses not to do something that eventually makes me suffer even more?
 
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One must remember that there are several kinds of pride.

One kind of pride is interested in how other people view you and how they then treat you. This is self centered and leads to much misery, both for ones self and for those around. I believe this is the kind being addressed in this thread.

There is another kind of pride that holds ones self accountable to the ideals one holds. This is the kind that says "the person the Lord has made me works diligently at the task before him". Properly in focus this kind of pride is a constant standard to live up to and enable one to do the tasks that the Lord has before him.

Many prides are a mixture of the two.
 
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I have been meditating on this, particularly on the ways that as OP specifies, pride causes or contributes the suffering of the prideful, and the suffering of those around him.

Pride keeps us from acknowledging our limitations which in turn results in our going far beyond the prudent exercising that increases our abilities. This unwise and often willful misjudgment in turn leads to failures. This is as true in spiritual aspects of life is in physical, social, and mental aspects.

Pride then leads us to unwarrantedly dismiss our failures as ‘not really our fault’. We misjudge ourselves as innocent or justified and we thus prevent ourselves from humbly confessing to our Lord and experiencing His forgiveness and help in overcoming or avoiding the challenges that defeated us. This only increases and prolongs our spiritual separation from the Lord.

While understanding our failures may require that we analyze why we do what we do, it is important that we do not use reasons as excuses. We remain responsible for our decisions.



Socially, pride can prevent us from appreciating the merits of those around us because we are too fixated on our own merits whether they be true or false. This gets in the way of expressing Christian love for others and causes us to miss the wonderful enlightenment that can come from looking at things from another point of view.
 
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Wow big question I need to think more about this...the ramifications of pride..I was reading in a school gazette so many articles on how educators want children to be proud and I'm thinking...woah. When does it stop.

Somehow, pride is seen as a good thing that you've done something all by yourself without any help. But it's not really true as we can never do anything without help..either someone taught us or showed us or we read a book or were inspired from above or we were in the right place in the right time.

Having standards or living up to them isn't really about pride its more obeying or trusting to do the right thing. As the servants say we have done our duty, and not expect anything more...the satisfaction that comes from a job well done rather than that we did it I suppose. Sometimes we are given instructions that we don't always follow. And other times the instructions themselves aren't really clear. So we follow what we know to the best of our ability.
 
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pride and suffering...well there are people that are too proud to accept help and push everyone away and can't admit they need help. So they suffer even more I guess.

I'm thinking of the book of Job. Often people wail about 'why do bad things happen to good people??" and obviously they mean themselves as they've always been 'good' but really nobody is immune, nobody is THAT good that nothing bad will ever happen to them...bad things happen to everyone, the rain falls on the righteous and unrighteous alike.

Often people that trot this out are thinking of a certain kind of people with a comfortable lifestyle, like Job, who never actually had to suffer ill health, tragedy or financial ruin before. And so they are surprised when it happens to them.
 
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Via dolarossa

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There is another kind of pride that holds ones self accountable to the ideals one holds. This is the kind that says "the person the Lord has made me works diligently at the task before him". Properly in focus this kind of pride is a constant standard to live up to and enable one to do the tasks that the Lord has before him.

Many prides are a mix
One must remember that there are several kinds of pride.

One kind of pride is interested in how other people view you and how they then treat you. This is self centered and leads to much misery, both for ones self and for those around. I believe this is the kind being addressed in this thread.

There is another kind of pride that holds ones self accountable to the ideals one holds. This is the kind that says "the person the Lord has made me works diligently at the task before him". Properly in focus this kind of pride is a constant standard to live up to and enable one to do the tasks that the Lord has before him.

Many prides are a mixture of the two.
I understand the first Kind of pride. That happens a lot to me. I didn’t recognise it as pride though. To me it’s just a self absorption/ worrying habit that Im going to get on peoples nerves lol.

The second kind is interesting. I have caught myself saying” I must do / be this or else..”

I see that they both tie in together. I Sometimes think I must do or be a certain kind of way or else people I value won’t like me. Which then leads to emotional reactions and withdrawal or attack..( anger etc which is a result of pride?)
 

Via dolarossa

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I have been meditating on this, particularly on the ways that as OP specifies, pride causes or contributes the suffering of the prideful, and the suffering of those around him.

Pride keeps us from acknowledging our limitations which in turn results in our going far beyond the prudent exercising that increases our abilities. This unwise and often willful misjudgment in turn leads to failures. This is as true in spiritual aspects of life is in physical, social, and mental aspects.

Pride then leads us to unwarrantedly dismiss our failures as ‘not really our fault’. We misjudge ourselves as innocent or justified and we thus prevent ourselves from humbly confessing to our Lord and experiencing His forgiveness and help in overcoming or avoiding the challenges that defeated us. This only increases and prolongs our spiritual separation from the Lord.

While understanding our failures may require that we analyze why we do what we do, it is important that we do not use reasons as excuses. We remain responsible for our decisions.



Socially, pride can prevent us from appreciating the merits of those around us because we are too fixated on our own merits whether they be true or false. This gets in the way of expressing Christian love for others and causes us to miss the wonderful enlightenment that can come from looking at things from another point of view.
So yes, When we don’t acknowledge our limitations, we end up justifying, blaming, accusing, attacking / defending, excusing, being unappreciative of others, and being self absorbed.

thanks Siloam, I will be watching for sure😊
 
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Via dolarossa

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pride and suffering...well there are people that are too proud to accept help and push everyone away and can't admit they need help. So they suffer even more I guess.

I'm thinking of the book of Job. Often people wail about 'why do bad things happen to good people??" and obviously they mean themselves as they've always been 'good' but really nobody is immune, nobody is THAT good that nothing bad will ever happen to them...bad things happen to everyone, the rain falls on the righteous and unrighteous alike.

Often people that trot this out are thinking of a certain kind of people with a comfortable lifestyle, like Job, who never actually had to suffer ill health, tragedy or financial ruin before. And so they are surprised when it happens to them.
Yes....ive done this too. I could not accept help from others as I doubted they could help me..AND...
there is a certain kind of pride in “ my suffering” and that “ my suffering” is different to everyone else’s! And more importantly “ my suffering” is more special! Yes I thought God is the only one who can help, but I never gave it a thought that he also works through others. Too proud to see others as helpers lol

thanks, keep them coming...
 

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I have also been thinking about this ever since you first posted the question. I think this is a great topic. It immediately made me wonder how many different examples and circumstances are in the Bible.

I know there are quite a few, and a good study of those scriptures/situations should prove to be very rewarding... so as I go through this coming week, I plan to do some studying on this... as I am sure that pride is the root of a whole lot of stuff that we never really consider!

(So... anyone have any scripture suggestions that relate to pride?)
 
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Many attributes that are virtues become vices of indications of iniquity when it is misplaced or misapplied. Pride is (for me) one of where this dichotomy is most easily seen.

Without some personal pride (appreciation of ones own abilities) one is unable to accomplish anything because he does not feel able to succeed.

Too much pride becomes self worship and gets in the way of relationships with those around him and with his relationship with God.

Notice what it says in Proverbs:

Proverbs 16:18

18  Pride goes before destruction,
And a haughty spirit before stumbling.


Like many passages, this says the same thing twice with different words. By doing this we can see that it is not the truthful assessment of ones own worth, but the self aggrandizement that is the hallmark of unwarranted pride.

Many have noticed that often a boastful arrogant outer personality hides an inner lack of self worth. A self doubter will then look for and sometimes demand that others reassure them of their abilities and worth.
 
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I have also been thinking about this ever since you first posted the question. I think this is a great topic. It immediately made me wonder how many different examples and circumstances are in the Bible.

I know there are quite a few, and a good study of those scriptures/situations should prove to be very rewarding... so as I go through this coming week, I plan to do some studying on this... as I am sure that pride is the root of a whole lot of stuff that we never really consider!

(So... anyone have any scripture suggestions that relate to pride?)
The following is a word search on "pride" using the New American Standard Bible.

From this you can see that Man tends much more to the negative pride (where one regsrds himself too much).

As a contrast the few places where pride in man is regarded in a positive manner it is not the pride one takes in himself, but that the attributes of the people are something in which the Lord takes pride.


A quick search on the word pride:

Leviticus 26:19
19 I will also break down your pride of power; I will also make your sky like iron and your earth like bronze.

2 Chronicles 17:6
6  He took great pride in the ways of the LORD and again removed the high places and the Asherim from Judah.

2 Chronicles 32:26
26 However, Hezekiah humbled the pride of his heart, both he and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the wrath of the LORD did not come on them in the days of Hezekiah.

Job 33:17
17 That He may turn man aside from his conduct,
And keep man from pride;

Job 35:12
12 “There they cry out, but He does not answer
Because of the pride of evil men.

Job 41:15
15 “His strong scales are his pride,
Shut up as with a tight seal.

Job 41:34
34 “He looks on everything that is high;
He is king over all the sons of pride.”

Psalms 10:2
2 In pride the wicked hotly pursue the afflicted;
Let them be caught in the plots which they have devised.

Psalms 31:18
18 Let the lying lips be mute,
Which speak arrogantly against the righteous
With pride and contempt.

Psalms 36:11
11 Let not the foot of pride come upon me,
And let not the hand of the wicked drive me away.

Psalms 46:3
3 Though its waters roar and foam,
Though the mountains quake at its swelling pride.

Psalms 59:12
12  On account of the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips,
Let them even be caught in their pride,
And on account of curses and lies which they utter.

Proverbs 8:13
13 “The fear of the LORD is to hate evil;
Pride and arrogance and the evil way
And the perverted mouth, I hate.

Proverbs 11:2
2 When pride comes, then comes dishonor,
But with the humble is wisdom.

Proverbs 16:18
18  Pride goes before destruction,
And a haughty spirit before stumbling.

Proverbs 21:24
24 “Proud,” “Haughty,” “Scoffer,” are his names,
Who acts with insolent pride.

Proverbs 29:22-23
And a hot-tempered man abounds in transgression.
23 A man’s pride will bring him low,
But a humble spirit will obtain honor.

Isaiah 2:17
17 The pride of man will be humbled
And the loftiness of men will be abased;
And the LORD alone will be exalted in that day,

Isaiah 4:2
2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth will be the pride and the adornment of the survivors of Israel.

Isaiah 9:9
9 And all the people know it,
That is, Ephraim and the inhabitants of Samaria,
Asserting in pride and in arrogance of heart:

Isaiah 13:19
19 And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans’ pride,
Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Isaiah 16:6
6  We have heard of the pride of Moab, an excessive pride;
Even of his arrogance, pride, and fury;
His idle boasts are false.

Isaiah 23:9
9  The LORD of hosts has planned it, to defile the pride of all beauty,
To despise all the honored of the earth.

Isaiah 25:11
And he will spread out his hands in the middle of it
As a swimmer spreads out his hands to swim,
But the Lord will lay low his pride together with the trickery of his hands.

Isaiah 60:15
15 “Whereas you have been forsaken and hated
With no one passing through,
I will make you an everlasting pride,
A joy from generation to generation.

Jeremiah 13:9
9 “Thus says the LORD, ‘Just so will I destroy the pride of Judah and the great pride of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 13:17
17 But if you will not listen to it,
My soul will sob in secret for such pride;
And my eyes will bitterly weep
And flow down with tears,
Because the flock of the LORD has been taken captive.

Jeremiah 48:29
29 “We have heard of the pride of Moab—he is very proud—
Of his haughtiness, his pride, his arrogance and his self-exaltation.

Ezekiel 7:20
The Temple Profaned
20 They transformed the beauty of His ornaments into pride, and they made the images of their abominations

Ezekiel 7:24
24 Therefore, I will bring the worst of the nations, and they will possess their houses. I will also make the pride of the strong ones cease, and their holy places will be profaned.and their detestable things with it; therefore I will make it an abhorrent thing to them.

Ezekiel 16:56
56 As the name of your sister Sodom was not heard from your lips in your day of pride,

Ezekiel 24:21
21 ‘Speak to the house of Israel, “Thus says the Lord GOD, ‘Behold, I am about to profane My sanctuary, the pride of your power, the desire of your eyes and the delight of your soul; and your sons and your daughters whom you have left behind will fall by the sword.

Ezekiel 24:25
pride, the desire of their eyes and their heart’s delight, their sons and their daughters,

Daniel 4:37
37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride.”

Hosea 5:5
5 Moreover, the pride of Israel testifies against him,
And Israel and Ephraim stumble in their iniquity;
Judah also has stumbled with them.

Hosea 7:10
10 Though the pride of Israel testifies against him,
Yet they have not returned to the LORD their God,
Nor have they sought Him, for all this.

Amos 8:7
7 The LORD has sworn by the pride of Jacob,
“Indeed, I will never forget any of their deeds.

Zephaniah 2:10
10 This they will have in return for their pride, because they have  taunted and become arrogant against the people of the LORD of hosts.

Zechariah 9:6
6 And a mongrel race will dwell in Ashdod,
And I will cut off the pride of the Philistines.

Zechariah 10:11
pride of Assyria will be brought down
And the scepter of Egypt will depart.
12 “And I will strengthen them in

Zechariah 11:3
pride of the Jordan is ruined.
4 Thus says the LORD my God, “Pasture the flock doomed to slaughter. 5 Those who

Mark 7:21-22
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality,  envy, slander, pride and foolishness.

2 Corinthians 5:12
12 We are not again commending ourselves to you but are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you will have an answer for those who take pride in appearance and not in heart.

1 John 2:16
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
 
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It can be wrong to judge someone as prideful when they are just acknowledging the gifts the Lord has provided, and the tasks that the Lord wants those gifts to address.

When Goliath was hurling verbal threats to the army of Israel, David recognized that God had prepared him for this battle. That was not arrogance. It was not unfounded pride to be confident of victory. And Paul never shrank from claiming his place and authority as an apostle of Christ. To be self-deprecating in these cases would not be honoring the gifts the Lord provided.
 
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It can be wrong to judge someone as prideful when they are just acknowledging the gifts the Lord has provided, and the tasks that the Lord wants those gifts to address.

When Goliath was hurling verbal threats to the army of Israel, David recognized that God had prepared him for this battle. That was not arrogance. It was not unfounded pride to be confident of victory. And Paul never shrank from claiming his place and authority as an apostle of Christ. To be self-deprecating in these cases would not be honoring the gifts the Lord provided.
Pride exalts yourSELF.
Saying that our God is great isn't pride, its just stating a fact!
We can't do anything of value without Him, so...it's not even pride, trusting God is actually FAITH.

Of course I know God can do anything, just cos He can!
 
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I'm going to be radical and say there is no such thing as 'negative' pride, all pride is sinful.

There is no 'positive' pride either. As book of Ecclesiastes shows, it's vanity. Us humans do suffer a lot of vanity, but its encouraged in people because a lot of people would rather judge on appearances and a veneer of pride than go deeper into things.

Those without spirit are empty inside their souls so pride is all actually all they have.
 
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Inspired by bob willes post on suffering, I thought I’d start a thread on the ways in which pride shows itself.

Pride, as a dictionary definition:

a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.

That’s an easy definition. I’m aware of these feelings when I’ve done something I think is great. After all, when I’ve done something I think is great, I’m not exactly suffering. So maybe Biblical pride is deeper than that. More subtle maybe( after all the devil was a wily beast)

But I never noticed or really thought further about the role pride plays in our suffering before. When I’m deeply suffering, the last thing I think about is that I’m being proud.

When pride shows up in our sufferings,
What are the ways in which it can reveal itself?

thanks
Pride is a "snare" of the devil. It is more of an ATTITUDE than anything else.

It manifests itself in the form of.....I am better than anyone else.
MY opinions are better than anyone elses.
MY feelings are more important that anyone elses.

Behind all phycological problems is a "root" That root comes from a tree that springs from a cause. That cause is then a lack of being a complete personality. In other words, something is missing in those people who allow Pride to over take them.

They want to be somebody important, they want a status symbol and that status symbol winds up being independance from God.

That is exactly what happened to Satan. He wanted to be like God. That is why God hates the sin of PRIDE so much.

PRIDE says......I can do it.
PRIDE says......I can help myself.
PRIDE says......I do not need help.
PRIDE says......I do not need God.

Pride is the #1 reason why men refuse to accept God's plan of salvation. If man could be saved by his own good works without God then Jesus died for nothing.
 

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Pride exalts yourSELF.
Saying that our God is great isn't pride, its just stating a fact!
We can't do anything of value without Him, so...it's not even pride, trusting God is actually FAITH. Of course I know God can do anything, just cos He can!
I'm going to be radical and say there is no such thing as 'negative' pride, all pride is sinful. There is no 'positive' pride either. As book of Ecclesiastes shows, it's vanity. Us humans do suffer a lot of vanity, but its encouraged in people because a lot of people would rather judge on appearances and a veneer of pride than go deeper into things. Those without spirit are empty inside their souls so pride is all actually all they have.
Hi Lanolin;

I read everyone's view in this topic and wanted to respond to your last two posts. There are variances of pride and in my experience pride exalts myself. For example, years ago when I played in the praise and worship team it was nice to receive approval from the congregation, church camp, or revival event. I would forget God and reap the compliments because it made me feel good and made the rest of my day or night.

Another example was when I first started preaching, someone wouldn't agree with my sermon or correct me on a Scripture I misused, would later bruise my ego, because of what the congregation thought, and again taking the glory away from God.

I feel pride used in the wrong sense, "my senses, or underlying motivation" is sinful to me, because sin can fester like a bad seed and lead to other sin like jealousy, coveting, lying, etc...

Many times I had to get on my knees and confess my pride, ego and vanity to God. I'm older now but still have to do a self check with God in everything, every mistake and wrong decisions I make. The more He is in the center of my entire whole being, the more He is engrained in me, the more its about Him.

God bless you, Lanolin, and your family.
 
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I believe accountability is a major issue with pride, as many refuse to accept accountability for their own sins so they can keep sinning.
Being I have visited so many different congregations nationally, I see this across the board in all churches.

An up to date 2020 sermon series on personal accountability would be excellent, but painful lesson for any congregation (IMO).
 
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It is apparent that the scriptures view pride as a basic and pervasive problem, even among Gods people. However, I contend that a positive self-image and grasp of the abilities invested in each of us is essential for applying those abilities as the Lord intends.

There are many kinds or objects of pride that I believe most of us would agree is beneficial. Each can be perverted when it is apart from or supersedes our regard for our Lord.

I take pride in my sons. This means, among other things, that when I think about them, I concentrate on their positive qualities, and rejoice that I have played a part in building their personalities. But my love and respect for my sons does not compel me to disregard their failings.

Many take pride in their country (patriotism). This is good (even Biblical), but we should be ready to acknowledge its failings and also allow countrymen of other countries pride in their country,

Many take pride in the teachings and ministries of their local church. But taking too much pride can hurt our fellowship with brothers with contrasting views.

When our regard for anything plays a larger part in our hearts than our regard for the Lord, it becomes sinful, but it is not the object of our pride that is the problem it is our devotion to that object.
 
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I believe accountability is a major issue with pride, as many refuse to accept accountability for their own sins so they can keep sinning.
Being I have visited so many different congregations nationally, I see this across the board in all churches.

An up to date 2020 sermon series on personal accountability would be excellent, but painful lesson for any congregation (IMO).
I agree completely. One reason lost people do not want to get saved is what you just said......to be saved they must accept the fact that they are sinners and need to be saved. That is taking responsibility for our own actions of disobedience.
 
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