Psalms 82 (KJV)

James Roberts

James Roberts

1 (A Psalm of Asaph.) God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

I inadvertently stumbled on a discussion I believe on Dr. Michael Heiser's website about this Psalm. I believe it was discussed in a doctoral candidate's thesis and reading it, I can certainly understand why. I've looked at the Hebrew this comes from and the English translations of it. I may post the Hebrew later if anyone's interested. Here are a few of my questions to start off with.
  1. Who is the congregation of the mighty?
  2. Who is judging and who are these (lower case) gods? (Looking at the Hebrew, these gods are not angels, but God (upper case) could certainly be the judge.)
  3. Verse seven seems to imply these gods are not men, but they can die like men.
I leave it there for now. Maybe other Psalms are needed to explain this one. I have some commentaries at home that are only accessible by book form.
 
One example

20180118_140154.png

Look at Psalm 82 in the YLT

82 -- A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.
2 Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.
3 Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.
4 Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.
5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.
6 I -- I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High -- all of you,
7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,
8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
One example

View attachment 3501

Look at Psalm 82 in the YLT

82 -- A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.
2 Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.
3 Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.
4 Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.
5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.
6 I -- I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High -- all of you,
7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,
8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!
Click to expand...
Gee, could you make that bigger?

Angels are typically referred to as sons of God. The Hebrew for this Psalm doesn't permit that choice, otherwise, the translators of LXX would have chosen their wording differently. The answer is not so easy I believe.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
sons of God is found about 5 times in the Old Testament (Genesis 6:2, 6:4, Job 1:6, 2:1 and 38:7) and five times in the New Testament (Romans 8:14, 19, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1 - 2). It has three primary meanings in the Bible, only one of which is made in reference to angels.
Click to expand...
Psalm 82 does say sons of the most high. But it seems like the Psalmist is speaking about a higher or ruling class of heavenly beings. And they can die.
 
James Roberts said:
Psalm 82 does say sons of the most high. But it seems like the Psalmist is speaking about a higher or ruling class of heavenly beings. And they can die.
Click to expand...

Which may very well be referring to us... as God's children... for Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords. Not sure how accurate... but just a thought because as we accept Jesus as Savior.. we he come sons instead of servants.
 
What is the Divine Council?

October 24, 2015 - Dr. Michael S. Heiser

Psalm 82:1
God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.
“The term divine council is used by Hebrew and Semitics scholars to refer to the heavenly host, the pantheon of divine beings who administer the affairs of the cosmos. All ancient Mediterranean cultures had some conception of a divine council. The divine council of Israelite religion, known primarily through the psalms, was distinct in important ways.”
Michael S. Heiser, “Divine Council,” in Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry & Writings (ed. Tremper Longman III and Peter Enns; Downers Grove, IL; Nottingham, England: IVP Academic; Inter-Varsity Press, 2008), 112.​
This is a short snippet before a long correspondence between Dr. Heiser and a Divinity Student working on his doctoral thesis. This starts a discussion but any misinterpretation can lead one down to all sorts of misinterpretations. Dr. Heiser takes the Bible as literal truth wherever it leads. The English translations of Psalm 82 are quite varied. Fish Catcher Jim mentioned the YLT which I haven't looked at yet, but I have looked at the Hebrew with the equivalent English words underneath. There seems to be more meaning here that gets lost in translation. I'm like a dog with a bone: I'm not letting go of this until I fully understand it. I feel like the Holy Spirit is leading me to do a deep dive into Psalm 82. I also have Dr. Heiser's book The Unseen Realm which I haven't read yet. Thanks for trying to help.

No argument. We are adoptive sons of God by grace through our savior Jesus.
 
James Roberts said:
What is the Divine Council?

October 24, 2015 - Dr. Michael S. Heiser

Psalm 82:1
God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.
“The term divine council is used by Hebrew and Semitics scholars to refer to the heavenly host, the pantheon of divine beings who administer the affairs of the cosmos. All ancient Mediterranean cultures had some conception of a divine council. The divine council of Israelite religion, known primarily through the psalms, was distinct in important ways.”​

Michael S. Heiser, “Divine Council,” in Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry & Writings (ed. Tremper Longman III and Peter Enns; Downers Grove, IL; Nottingham, England: IVP Academic; Inter-Varsity Press, 2008), 112.​
This is a short snippet before a long correspondence between Dr. Heiser and a Divinity Student working on his doctoral thesis. This starts a discussion but any misinterpretation can lead one down to all sorts of misinterpretations. Dr. Heiser takes the Bible as literal truth wherever it leads. The English translations of Psalm 82 are quite varied. Fish Catcher Jim mentioned the YLT which I haven't looked at yet, but I have looked at the Hebrew with the equivalent English words underneath. There seems to be more meaning here that gets lost in translation. I'm like a dog with a bone: I'm not letting go of this until I fully understand it. I feel like the Holy Spirit is leading me to do a deep dive into Psalm 82. I also have Dr. Heiser's book The Unseen Realm which I haven't read yet. Thanks for trying to help.

No argument. We are adoptive sons of God by grace through our savior Jesus.
Click to expand...
I have a book on Divinity and Doctrine and why christians should believe. i have yet to read this book. i think it's intimidating, but Gods timing is always right. i will read it.... but i am still the same as you.. a dog with a bone. there is much i need to know and understand and it seems i am always praying, speaking to God, begging and desiring more and more and more.... i need to know...
 
Just to add another aspect of the Word gods....

H430
Original: אלהים

Transliteration: 'ĕlôhı̂ym

Phonetic: el-o-heem'

BDB Definition:

  1. (plural)
    1. rulers, judges
    2. divine ones
    3. angels
    4. gods
  2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)
    1. god, goddess
    2. godlike one
    3. works or special possessions of God
    4. the (true) God
    5. God
Origin: plural of H433

TWOT entry: 93c

Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

Strong's Definition: Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God ; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates ; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty
 
Cturtle said:
Just to add another aspect of the Word gods....

H430
Original: אלהים

Transliteration: 'ĕlôhı̂ym

Phonetic: el-o-heem'

BDB Definition:

  1. (plural)
    1. rulers, judges
    2. divine ones
    3. angels
    4. gods
  2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)
    1. god, goddess
    2. godlike one
    3. works or special possessions of God
    4. the (true) God
    5. God
Origin: plural of H433

TWOT entry: 93c

Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

Strong's Definition: Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God ; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates ; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty
Click to expand...
If you type in divine council on the DuckDuckGo search engine, the second result takes you a website of Dr. Heiser (He has many.) This has little more than what's already been written above. But on the right side is a link to a pdf titled the Divine Council and Israel's Godhead which I briefly scanned but looks quite interesting.

Thanks for the post. I think I have Strong's both in paper and electronically. I should also have Briggs Driver Brown too. Thanks again for the post.
 
CoffeeDrinker said:
this is completely off topic, but James do you take alot of photos? is that why you chose the camera avatar?
Click to expand...
I moved to California with my second engineering job out of college. I bought my first camera then and got hooked on film photography. That was in 1975. I tapered off shooting film about 10-15 years ago for a variety of personal reasons. My lovely wife convinced me to get back into photography and this is the digital SLR I bought in December. Other avatars I've used over the years include a chess pawn, pictures of my dogs, a jet engine, and a handgun on a well-worn Bible. The two Christian forums I am somewhat active on show two different views of this camera.
 
i Sony that looks like your avatar, but i am thinking of upgrading. i used to take more pictures, but with my son being grown i dont want to take photos of any more. lol i still need to master this camera a bit more. then i think i need to gift this one to someone who will appreciate it and then take an a nicer one. i was just curious. thanks.
 
CoffeeDrinker said:
i Sony that looks like your avatar, but i am thinking of upgrading. i used to take more pictures, but with my son being grown i dont want to take photos of any more. lol i still need to master this camera a bit more. then i think i need to gift this one to someone who will appreciate it and then take an a nicer one. i was just curious. thanks.
Click to expand...
The things I considered highest are interchangeable lenses, image quality 24 MP or better, and reliability. The only piece of Canon equipment I ever lost was a Canon printer that went dead after a lightening strike/power surge. I lost a computer, printer, converter cord from USB to Parallel (which saved my HP LASER printer), two TVs, a router, cable modem, and a few other things. Everything but the TVs were protected by surge protection devices which didn't help. All the surge protection devices used have now been replaced.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top