Romans 9

[Big Moose]

Continuing on with Romans. This is NKJV, comments in >>blue.
Occasional NLT version in red:
1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,
2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart.
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
>>This is almost an oath that Paul is saying in verse 1, against the direction of Christ in Matthew 5:34-37. Paul is grieved that the Jewish people were blinded, or accursed as Paul says, from Christ and realizing He is their Messiah.
4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;
>>A list of the benefits the Jewish people had with God. God's chosen people to be adopted, the special connection to God, having been given the law, the honor of service to God, and God's promises to them specifically.
5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
>>The promises given to "the fathers", Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the promise realized in Jesus Christ born from that lineage. Christ is over all authority and is God, eternally blessed.
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
>>The word of God has taken effect, even though most of Israel had not believed. Those who are of "Israel", meaning the promised lineage of Jacob, who was renamed Israel. This means some Jews did become believers along with Gentiles who also have been adopted by grace through faith.
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
>>In Genesis 22:18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice." Isaac, not Ishmael, would have the promises of the seed follow in his lineage.
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
>>Verse 8 and 9 explain what was in the previous verses. This is referring to Abraham's children. When God promised a son to pass on the promises God gave to Abraham, Sarah and Abraham didn't know the plan and decided to take action to have a son through Hagar, Sarah's maidservant. Sarah was getting too old to have a child so she gave Abraham Hagar to have a son with. This is why Ishmael's line is called "children of the flesh", because they used the flesh to produce a son instead of the promise of God to produce a son of inheritance. So only the children of the promise, Isaac, are counted as the seed.

 

[Big Moose]

9 For this is the word of promise: "At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son."
>>Again, God's promise is the son that will carry the promise and the seed of the chosen people.
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."
>>These 3 verses give us the next generation of Abraham's line, Isaac and Rebecca's sons, Esau and Jacob. Verse 11 is stating that even before the babies could be born, therefore not earning by good deed or committing a sin, that God chooses their futures because He knows them already and what their purposes are.
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
>>As we see here, God loves and God hates. Hating is not evil, it is the showing of love for something else against, or opposed to, the object of the hate. Clearly, God's judgement was that Esau was not worthy to have the line of Jesus go through him.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
>>Paul right away knows that many will see this as wrong. Is God unrighteous? Definitely not!
15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
>>Quote from Exodus 33:19. God has mercy on who He chooses and compassion on who He chooses. It is a gift from God and no one earns it.
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
>>So no matter how much you want it or how much you work for it, it is God who gives the gift of mercy. That is why trusting in His son, Jesus, is so important. Jesus is the way to God's mercy.

 

[Big Moose]

17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."
>>This presents Pharaoh as almost an innocent bystander. Many know the story from the movie "The Ten Commandments", but do we know the scripture? Here is the first encounter with Pharaoh:
Exodus 5:
1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went in and told Pharaoh, "Thus says the Lord God of Israel: 'Let My people go, that they may hold a feast to Me in the wilderness.' "
2 And Pharaoh said, "Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, nor will I let Israel go."
3 So they said, "The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Please, let us go three days' journey into the desert and sacrifice to the Lord our God, lest He fall upon us with pestilence or with the sword."
4 Then the king of Egypt said to them, "Moses and Aaron, why do you take the people from their work? Get back to your labor."
5 And Pharaoh said, "Look, the people of the land are many now, and you make them rest from their labor!"
6 So the same day Pharaoh commanded the taskmasters of the people and their officers, saying,
7 "You shall no longer give the people straw to make brick as before. Let them go and gather straw for themselves.
8 And you shall lay on them the quota of bricks which they made before. You shall not reduce it. For they are idle; therefore they cry out, saying, 'Let us go and sacrifice to our God.'
9 Let more work be laid on the men, that they may labor in it, and let them not regard false words."
The words in bold gives us the first time I know of that a government assumes it has the authority to decide what is truth and what is "fake news". Pharaoh shows his heart here in this passage, and God knew his heart as well, knowing all the attributes that are against God and His nature. When we see the Bible listing these attributes as abominations towards God, whether in Proverbs, in Paul's writings or scattered throughout the Bible, Pharaoh seems to have more than his share. So, we see God is not unfair with Pharaoh as He is putting pressure on Pharaoh and hardens his already hardened heart in the rest of the account involving Pharaoh. So God can righteously say, "I know who you are and have raised you up to show My power in you and My name shall be declared to all the earth because of your actions." Back to Romans 9.
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
>>So God shows mercy on those He knows, and He hardens the hearts of those He already knows.

 

[Big Moose]

19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
>>I like how Paul brings up honest questions in regard to his teaching. It may be that he had these questions asked of him when debating the scholars of his day. So, why does He hold us responsible? Hasn't He caused all this to happen? As we saw with Pharaoh, there are answers that we may not be able to understand. He goes on-
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
>>God made you. You did not make God. So God has the right to make what He makes and for the reasons He decides. His plan has so many layers that we cannot comprehend. So, it is ridiculous for us to question God's wisdom.
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
>>Paul draws an analogy of God being like the potter forming the clay. He has purposes for each thing He makes.
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
>>Paul poses his own assertion, that God may have shown His power and wrath, I see this as God's determination to show patience but still have justice in the end, giving all the chance to receive grace.
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
>>Paul continues with God showing His generous nature on those prepared for glory.
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
>>Reference to God's elect, those who were made to be heirs mentioned in chapter 8.
25 As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved."
>>Paul is quoting Hosea 2:23. Gentiles were not God's people but were grafted in and now are His.
26 "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God."
>>This is from Hosea 1:10. This can be understood to be Gentiles, but also the wayward Israelites as the passage in Hosea is talking about. Paul is saying, "See? Not just God's elect, but anyone may come to Christ and receive mercy and salvation. Those who were not chosen, now are called the chosen.
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved.
>>Isaiah 10:22. Though there are many, only a certain amount will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth."
>>This is Isaiah 10:23, although this shows the difference the translations can make when Paul understood the Hebrew and translated into Greek, then later gets translated into English. This is that verse from the NKJV of Isaiah-
23For the Lord God of hosts
Will make a determined end
In the midst of all the land.
>>It is the same idea but phrased differently. Kinda like going from KJV to NLT. Same concepts and ideas, but quite different phrasings for readability and understanding. God will finish His works.
29 And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah."
>>Seed is also translated in Isaiah as "very small remnant". Without this remnant, the nation of Israel would have gone the way of other nations, even to the evils of perversion like in Sodom and Gomorrah.
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
>>So what? Those Gentiles who had no law to learn from would get righteousness through faith? And Israel has the law to guide them and yet could not attain righteousness?
32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
>>Israel did not seek righteousness by faith. They misunderstood that righteousness would come by works, following the law and being holy. Saved by works made them stumble, miss the whole point of faith in God.
33 As it is written: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
>>This is from, what seems to be, two passages in Isaiah. Isaiah 28:
16Therefore thus says the Lord God:
“Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation,
A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
Whoever believes will not act hastily.
>>and Isaiah 8:
14He will be as a sanctuary,
But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense
To both the houses of Israel,
As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
>>Peter also talks of this in 1 Peter 2:
8 and, “A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
>>And also Jesus says in Matthew 21:
42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the Lord's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."
>>The cornerstone, the main stone from which you build from for the strength it gives to the rest of the building. Jesus holds all of this together as He is the key to salvation. Take notice on what you trip, or stumble on. It may be what you are looking for.

 

[DavyP]

I find your explanation a bit too much 'flesh Israel' centered.

The following verse by Apostle Paul proves that he was not only talking about the flesh seed of Israel regarding the Promise.

Rom 9:6
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
KJV

We easily know that those of Old Testament children of Israel involved the literal 'seed' descended from Isaac. But Paul is saying not all of those are... "Israel". Thus Paul is pointing to a 'spiritual Israel' idea regarding God's Promise to Abraham. And that Promise to Abraham is about The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

To prove that is what Apostle Paul was pointing to, later in Romans 11 Paul shows how God spiritually blinded many of Paul's brethren the Jews, so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. And IF... those unbelieving Jews remain in unbelief, they will be 'cut off', otherwise if they do accept Jesus Christ, then they will be put back in their own tree according to Paul.

Thus there is no such thing in God's Word about an automatic salvation for the 'seed' of Israel. Even they MUST confess Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ in order to inherit God's Promise by Faith first given to Abraham. Apostle Paul shows this also in Romans 4 and Galatians 3.

Some might ask, "Why then did God say He chose the seed of Israel, and that He would gather them back to their original inheritances He gave their fathers?" He chose the seed of Israel to be the 'caretakers' of His Promise by Faith to Abraham, and His Birthright blessings He also gave through Abraham. In Ephesians 2, Galatians 3, and even here in Romans 9 with quoting from Hosea to Gentile Roman believers, Paul revealed this point about believing Gentiles inheriting 'with' faithful Abraham.

Not all the 'seed' of Israel believed The Gospel, and still today the majority of Jews still do not believe. Throughout Old Testament history, it reveals God's chosen that did... believe God's Promise to Abraham, and through them those became the 'caretakers' of The Gospel of Jesus Christ down through their generations, God's Birthright blessings settling upon Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where the Birthright still is today, among the Christian nations.

I am sorry if this tends to destroy what many Churches are wrongly teaching about the "house of Judah" (Jews), but God's Promises were historically removed from the middle east nation of Israel back when Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, and took the Jews captive to Babylon, with only a small remnant that returned. And then later God pronounced sentence upon the "house of Judah" in Judea again in 70 A.D. when the Roman general Titus and his army conquered Jerusalem, and destroyed it again, and the 2nd temple, with to this day, no Jewish temple built there since, and no king of the house of David of the tribe of Judah sitting upon a throne in Jerusalem. And even with the 1948 return of Jews to re-establish the nation of Israel in the holy land, that was only allowed by U.N. vote of the nations, and they still don't control all the lands and even all of Jerusalem, showing that is NOT God's fulfillment of final return of all 12 tribes of Israel.

Yet God's Birthright promises He gave through Abraham, that went to Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Joseph, and then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, still exists on earth today, just not in the holy land. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the major part of God's Birthright to the children of Israel, so where's that today? Both scattered ten tribes of Israel and believing Judah, together with believing Gentiles, is what that is about. That is where God's Birthright blessings are today.

 

[Big Moose]

Both scattered ten tribes of Israel and believing Judah, together with believing Gentiles, is what that is about. That is where God's Birthright blessings are today.

I'm having a little trouble understanding this last bit.
Yes, Paul did make the first part of this chapter centered on the fathers of the nation of Israel. But, I agree, the seed and the promises now belong to the faithful Gentiles and Jews who trust in Christ. I do think God will always have a remnant left in Israel for purposes of His design, as Revelation prophesizes. There is so much more that will happen in that region and Jerusalem itself in the future.

 

[DavyP]

I'm having a little trouble understanding this last bit.
Yes, Paul did make the first part of this chapter centered on the fathers of the nation of Israel. But, I agree, the seed and the promises now belong to the faithful Gentiles and Jews who trust in Christ. I do think God will always have a remnant left in Israel for purposes of His design, as Revelation prophesizes. There is so much more that will happen in that region and Jerusalem itself in the future.

Are you aware of the following Scripture?

1 Chron 5:1-2
5 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's
KJV

AND... this?

Gen 35:10-11
10 And God said unto him, "Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name:" and He called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
KJV

Gen 48:18-19
18 And Joseph said unto his father, "Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head."
19 And his father refused, and said, "I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations."
KJV

This is why it is so important for us to also include Old Testament history in our Bible study. Why is the above important to the Christian Church?

It is because God prophesied that the seed of Jacob, whom He named 'Israel', was to become also a "company of nations" and Joseph's son's seed was to become a "multitude of nations". And that means with the 'ISRAEL label on them.

Furthermore, the 1 Chronicles 5 Scripture reveals where God's Birthright finally wound up, i.e., upon the two sons of Joseph, Ephraim the younger, and Manasseh the elder.

That Birthright is about God's Promise by Faith first given through Abraham, and includes His promised blessings to Abraham, The Gospel of Jesus Christ being the most important part of God's Birthright. The name 'Israel' means those who 'overcome with God's help', and is actually the Salvation name to represent His Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ.

Isa 11:13
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
KJV

Once God brings the believing remnant of Israel back in final under Lord Jesus, that is when the above will be said; "Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim." What that means is this...

During this present world, the majority of Apostle Paul's brethren, the Jews (representing the historical "house of Judah" of OT history), have been spiritually blinded by God away from The Gospel. Per OT history, God did not scatter the "house of Judah" (Jews) like He did the "house of Israel" (ten tribes). How so? The majority of the Jews of the "house of Judah" kept their heritage as Israel, including God's feast days, sabbaths, new moons, etc. But Israel didn't (meaning the ten lost tribes of the "house of Israel" that were scattered among the Gentiles first - see 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17).

The ten northern tribe "kingdom of Israel" (that God had separated from the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah"), were lost in their captivity to Assyria and the lands of the Medes. Only the Jews of the "house of Judah", or "kingdom of Judah" remained in the holy land when the ten tribes were taken captive by the kings of Assyria. The ten tribes lost their heritage as being part of Israel, including losing knowledge of God's feasts, sabbaths, new moons, etc. God showed this through His prophet Hosea that He would do this to the northern kingdom of ten tribes.

In Romans 9, Apostle Paul quoted from the Book of Hosea to Roman Gentile believers on Jesus Christ. It is very... important to realize that God gave Hosea to write the Book of Hosea specifically about the ten northern tribe kingdom called the "house of Israel" then. It was not... written about, nor to the Gentiles. So WHY... did Apostle Paul quote from Hosea to Gentiles in Christ?

Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, "I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.'"
KJV

"Osee" is how the Greek rendered 'Hosea'. That part above in red is a quote from the Book of Hosea to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel".

Hosea 1:6
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, "Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away."
KJV

Hosea 1:10
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, "Ye are not My people, there it shall be said unto them, 'Ye are the sons of the living God.'"
KJV

At first in Hosea, God told Hosea to take a harlot to wife in order to symbolize the ten tribe "house of Israel" falling into Baal idol worship against Him. God told Hosea what to name his children to represent this. "Lo-ruhamah" means 'not pitied' meaning having 'no mercy', for God was getting ready to end the ten tribe "house of Israel" kingdom and scatter them.

But later in final, per Hosea 1:10 where Apostle Paul quoted to Gentile Romans in Christ, it would be said when the ten tribes are gathered in final, to them it would be said, "Ye are the sons of the living God." That was originally written ONLY to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" in the Book of Hosea. So WHY... would Apostle Paul quote that in Romans 9 to Gentile Roman believers in Christ?

The point? Apostle Paul showed by that, that he understood where a majority of the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" were scattered to among the Gentiles. And since Paul quoted that "Ye are the sons of the living God" to Gentile Roman believers, that shows he knew about the ten lost tribes being scattered to Europe, which just so happens that after Jesus was rejected in Jerusalem, The Gospel would be accepted in Asia Minor and Europe, forming the first Christian nations of history, i.e., the "company of nations" that Israel (Jacob), and the "multitude of nations" that Ephraim's seed was to become. The majority of Jews of the "house of Judah" were also scattered through the countries later, and a remnant of them would convert to Jesus among those Christian nations of history. Yet the majority of the Jews are still 'blinded' by God until Jesus returns, and they still represent the "house of Judah" per God's Word.

Lot to digest I know, but all that can be backed up in God's written Word.