Salvation is Relocation

Alive2 said:
So then---Is Christ Lucifer's father?
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The Creator - yes, and in that sense he is the Father of creation, of Einstein, Stalin and Emily Dickensian.

But that He is not a programmer, all sentient beings, men and angels, have free will.

1 Corinthians 8:6
“yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”
 
Alive2 said:
So then---Is Christ Lucifer's father?
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He is Lucifers creator my friend. Now there seems to be something that you are suggesting. Are you trying to say that
Since both Christ and Lucifer were born of the Father, they were brothers in a spiritual sense, as all of us are brothers and sisters in that sense ─ we are all the sons and daughters of God??
 
blueskies said:
The Creator - yes, and in that sense he is the Father of creation, of Einstein, Stalin and Emily Dickensian.

But that He is not a programmer, all sentient beings, men and angels, have free will.

1 Corinthians 8:6
“yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”
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Agreed.
 
Major said:
He is Lucifers creator my friend. Now there seems to be something that you are suggesting. Are you trying to say that
Since both Christ and Lucifer were born of the Father, they were brothers in a spiritual sense, as all of us are brothers and sisters in that sense ─ we are all the sons and daughters of God??
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No of course not---how in the world would you think a brother would say such a thing.
Love hopes all things and believes all things.
I have given no reason for this...but now I do think I understand.

Are we so fearful of those topics that are forbidden here, that we see them behind every post of a new member?
I perceive that there is some preloaded reason for the push back I am getting.

My intention is only to lift up Christ and the Cross and Him Crucified.
The Holy Spirit has two main functions in the earth and one of them is to point to Christ--that is what I wish to do. Not to argue over doctrine's that I haven't even put forth.

I do not wish to cause any harm to anyone. I do not wish to bring strife.

Perhaps its best that I leave.

I hope that some visitor, some young seeking soul will benefit from what I consider uplifting. The joyous work of our Lord and Savior.
This is why I write these things as a do. In simple to understand clear language.

I have posted the same on three other forums over the last few years and never experienced this pushback.

Sheeeesh.
 
Alive2 said:
No of course not---how in the world would you think a brother would say such a thing.
Love hopes all things and believes all things.
I have given no reason for this...but now I do think I understand.

Are we so fearful of those topics that are forbidden here, that we see them behind every post of a new member?
I perceive that there is some preloaded reason for the push back I am getting.

My intention is only to lift up Christ and the Cross and Him Crucified.
The Holy Spirit has two main functions in the earth and one of them is to point to Christ--that is what I wish to do. Not to argue over doctrine's that I haven't even put forth.

I do not wish to cause any harm to anyone. I do not wish to bring strife.

Perhaps its best that I leave.

I hope that some visitor, some young seeking soul will benefit from what I consider uplifting. The joyous work of our Lord and Savior.
This is why I write these things as a do. In simple to understand clear language.

I have posted the same on three other forums over the last few years and never experienced this pushback.

Sheeeesh.
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My apologies my friend.
Just asked an innocent question. It seems that you were trying to say something without saying it. hence the question.

I mean, you did ask........."So then---Is Christ Lucifer's father?"
I do think that you will have to admit that it was the kind of question that would lead to the question I asked.

You have caused NO harm and no stress to anyone I know, especially me, but you also must realize that all believers also have the right and calling to establish Bible doctrine. That is what I was doing.

I hope you will continue to post as you seem to be a very nice and well spoken person.
 
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Alive2 said:
No of course not---how in the world would you think a brother would say such a thing.
Love hopes all things and believes all things.
I have given no reason for this...but now I do think I understand.

Are we so fearful of those topics that are forbidden here, that we see them behind every post of a new member?
I perceive that there is some preloaded reason for the push back I am getting.

My intention is only to lift up Christ and the Cross and Him Crucified.
The Holy Spirit has two main functions in the earth and one of them is to point to Christ--that is what I wish to do. Not to argue over doctrine's that I haven't even put forth.

I do not wish to cause any harm to anyone. I do not wish to bring strife.

Perhaps its best that I leave.

I hope that some visitor, some young seeking soul will benefit from what I consider uplifting. The joyous work of our Lord and Savior.
This is why I write these things as a do. In simple to understand clear language.

I have posted the same on three other forums over the last few years and never experienced this pushback.

Sheeeesh.
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Please do not look at this as anything other than a conversation. If you are feeling attacked, no one here is intending that. We expect to have comments about our posts, we should not expect to have everyone just agree with everything we said. I don't see any bitterness from anyone. I am sorry you took the comments so harshly as I truly believe they were not meant that way. It is a good post and we are indeed to lift up the word for all to see. We have had others from a particular religion that have espoused that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. You did not say that and I think Major was just looking for clarification. I hope you will stay.
 
Dave F. said:
Please do not look at this as anything other than a conversation. If you are feeling attacked, no one here is intending that. We expect to have comments about our posts, we should not expect to have everyone just agree with everything we said. I don't see any bitterness from anyone. I am sorry you took the comments so harshly as I truly believe they were not meant that way. It is a good post and we are indeed to lift up the word for all to see. We have had others from a particular religion that have espoused that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. You did not say that and I think Major was just looking for clarification. I hope you will stay.
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Agreed!
 
Major said:
My apologies my friend.
Just asked an innocent question. It seems that you were trying to say something without saying it. hence the question.

I mean, you did ask........."So then---Is Christ Lucifer's father?"
I do think that you will have to admit that it was the kind of question that would lead to the question I asked.

You have caused NO harm and no stress to anyone I know, especially me, but you also must realize that all believers also have the right and calling to establish Bible doctrine. That is what I was doing.

I hope you will continue to post as you seem to be a very nice and well spoken person.
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I have learned long long ago that asking questions is a good tool for teaching and do it often. It is primarily designed to get people to think and study. In this case, that question was simply designed to let you discover that your logic in refuting my statement that Adam became a son of Lucifer, could be better.
Your argument was that because Christ created Adam the first, that he remains a son of Christ / Christ his father.
So I gently attempted to lead you to another way of thinking. If you followed the exchange--or perhaps look at it again, i think you will see this.
I do not know any of you here and have no idea what level of maturity exists. Again--this is one reason I write as I do. Mostly for seekers and the babes in Christ that may not have a strong foundation. I know from much experience and the Lord's coaching that it is vital to have a firm foundation in the Cross, Resurrection and Ascension because it does indeed prevent much of the error that is out there.

I do not need to be right...in fact I very much want to be shown if I am wrong about a thing. As a son of God, why would this not be the case.

BTW---I did not mention bitterness nor its root and did not have that in mind at all. Rather, a certain presupposition fueled by both imagination and history. I get it.
 
Alive2 said:
I do not know any of you here and have no idea what level of maturity exists.
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Dear Alive2,

I read you were thinking of leaving the forum and wanted to write and ask you to reconsider. Just as you are getting to know us we are getting to know you as well and where you are coming from. I apologize for any confusion or awkwardness on my part.

I also have spent some time in other forums and I believe generally this forum is one of the most congenial out there. For sure it has it’s own culture and particular way of operating, but the people here are genuine, knowledgeable and friendly.

Perhaps what has struck you as push-back can also be interpreted as a sincere level of engagement.

In other words, people here are reading, thinking and reacting to your efforts.

I really do hope you will reconsider.

God bless you and those you love.
 
Alive2 said:
I do not know any of you here and have no idea what level of maturity exists.
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This may be the crux of the matter. Normally people, when joining a forum will read and see where the posters are at at least for a week or so. I think it was the same day you joined you started posting (and in a bit of a condescending manner-posts#10-12 IMHO). So it may have been wise to first get to know us a bit and our level of maturity/immaturity? Thoughts?
 
What has happened here is confusion due largely because of assumptions. If you go back and read the entire thread again, it can be seen.
Read what I write as written. No need to guess. I am clear.
Fellas, I have seen it all. Until recently because I stepped down--I was Admin for years at Worthy Christian Forums.
LOL
I will attempt to clear up this issue of Lucifer.

A member suggested that I was in error referring to Adam the first as a son of Lucifer. The member used some logic and scriptures to make his point that Adam was and remains a son of Christ. Or conversely, that Christ is Adam's father even after the fall.
I will leave the assertion that Adam was/is Christ's son till later.
I responded by pointing to a created being Lucifer who was created good and who fell--the hows and whys do not matter for this discussion neither does whether or not Lucifer was actually created 'good'.
Lucifer, at any rate is no longer good at all in all sense, but possibly one (that he is serving a purpose in God's Plan).
I contend that he is not a son of Christ or the Father for that matter. So, I asked the question. If Lucifer is not Christ's son, then perhaps it can be seen that neither is fallen Adam.

Now for the "later" I mentioned up there a ways. :)

Personally, I do not believe either Adam the first or Lucifer were ever at any time 'sons' of Christ.

Lucifer created as an angel with angelic nature and Adam the first as a human with human nature. He was and is still an imager to a far lesser degree than intended. Adam the first never ate from the tree of Life which is Christ. Christ is the Life. God's 'Eternal Purpose' as mentioned by Paul in Ephesians (now this is my belief only) was to share 'being'--to have a family after His own law of 'kind'. We who are born from above, have been gifted with 'Christ Life'--a New to us Nature. We are sons and members of a Family and one day, it will be revealed--and in fact, we are being changed even now from one degree of glory to another.
We 'became' sons by the will of the Father when we 'ate' Christ. Adam did not eat that fruit--that Life--so he remains Adam.

I hope this clears things up, brothers.

He chuckles---all of this I assign to Romans 8:28
 
crossnote said:
This may be the crux of the matter. Normally people, when joining a forum will read and see where the posters are at at least for a week or so. I think it was the same day you joined you started posting (and in a bit of a condescending manner-posts#10-12 IMHO). So it may have been wise to first get to know us a bit and our level of maturity/immaturity? Thoughts?
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Yup--you are assigning a characteristic to me that you cannot possible know. That comment does nothing to further unity.
 
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