Sovereign Election

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We obviously disagree on that point. I see Hb. 9 as talking about physical death. John 11:25 Jesus says even if you die you live and we do. I John 5:13 says we not only have eternal life but we can know that we have it. I don't see anyway around that, and I'm sure I don't fully understand your position. But let us agree to disagree.


Yes, that would be obvious. It's amazing to me how people of your ilk can just slide into death as being either physical or spiritual when the Bible makes it very clear that the spirit NEVER dies. That's right, Jesus does say that, so you will die. When will you have Eternal Life then? Can't be before your die, so it has to be after. I know I have Eternal Life WHEN Jesus returns. I know it because FAITH is the evidence of things NOT seen, it is NOT the evidence of what we actually have.
Sorry but that old cliche is a cop out and I don't use it when it comes to Biblical issues. As far as I am concerned, the Bible says what it does and you do NOT.
 
Eternal life is a present possession for the believer. I John 5:13

'These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.'
 
The fact is we are instructed to STUDY, to show ourselves APPROVED, RIGHTLY dividing the Word of Truth. This mean BOTH can't be right, ONLY one can be.

This is how I see it:
It is like entering a gate with words “Welcome” : there is the acceptance…
Once entering the gate, we looked back at the gate: “there is nothing that was not given”…
 
Eternal life is a present possession for the believer. I John 5:13

'These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.'


As I have shown extensively in this thread Mr. D, that verse shows an effectual eternal life, NOT an actual possession. You should read ALL the posts to keep up.
 
This is how I see it:
It is like entering a gate with words “Welcome” : there is the acceptance…
Once entering the gate, we looked back at the gate: “there is nothing that was not given”…


I have NO idea how this relates to what my post said.
 
As I have shown extensively in this thread Mr. D, that verse shows an effectual eternal life, NOT an actual possession. You should read ALL the posts to keep up.
You are teaching something contrary to scripture. According to John, eternal life is a present possession. Even now, I am a son of God, born again and possessing everlasting life. No amount of equivocating will rob me of what God has given me freely by his own grace.

I John 3:2

'Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.'

No believer should let anyone tell them that they do not now possess eternal life. I know definitely where I shall be when he comes. I haven't any need of wonder nor doubt since I am sealed till the day of redemption.
 
You are teaching something contrary to scripture. According to John, eternal life is a present possession. Even now, I am a son of God, born again and possessing everlasting life. No amount of equivocating will rob me of what God has given me freely by his own grace.

I John 3:2

'Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.'

No believer should let anyone tell them that they do not now possess eternal life. I know definitely where I shall be when he comes. I haven't any need of wonder nor doubt since I am sealed till the day of redemption.

Unfortunately Mr. Darby, there is an alarmingly high incidence of carnality being displayed of late.
I have been 'biting my tongue' quite a lot of late, so much so that there is very little tongue left to bite :( , hence my breaking silence.
The mature way that both you and Jack W are handling things is not going unnoticed.
I'm not at this stage saying you are either right or wrong in what you are saying, I'm just finding your demeanour most refreshing and encouraging.
I thought I should just say as I have before the inevitable thread closure takes place.
 
You are teaching something contrary to scripture. According to John, eternal life is a present possession. Even now, I am a son of God, born again and possessing everlasting life. No amount of equivocating will rob me of what God has given me freely by his own grace.

I John 3:2

'Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.'

No believer should let anyone tell them that they do not now possess eternal life. I know definitely where I shall be when he comes. I haven't any need of wonder nor doubt since I am sealed till the day of redemption.

Funny, as it says right in the middle of that 1 John 3:2 verse, John states; ...it has not yet been revealed what we will be.
Paul also says in Phil 3:12-13; Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, AND, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it.

So you don't accept Heb 9:27? I'll bet you'll be IN your grave when Jesus returns, DEAD!

The Bible tells us what is Truth what we need to know, and eisegeting it for your own doctrinal use is WRONG.

Like I said, read the thread, I have no desire to repeat all I have already posted.
 
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; and he who does not obey the Son shall not see llife, but the wrath of God abides on him" (Jn. 3:36). Here is another verse that places "eternal life" in the present tense. It says quite plainly that anyone who is believing in the Son, "has" (present tense) eternal life. This particular passage contains the words of Jesus.
 
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; and he who does not obey the Son shall not see llife, but the wrath of God abides on him" (Jn. 3:36). Here is another verse that places "eternal life" in the present tense. It says quite plainly that anyone who is believing in the Son, "has" (present tense) eternal life. This particular passage contains the words of Jesus.
Yep Jesus said it I believe it...for me, that settles it.
 
Yes I agree Rusty. The intractable nature of some is quite evident and their deliberate attempts to always sidetrack and divert from the OP is also very evident.
I will ask that the thread be closed.
 
I have been shocked of late by the reality that only 8 people survived the flood. Surely there were many who claimed sovereign election / pre-destination of some sort. This is not a new doctrine. Yet they are all en-route to hell :(.

I do believe eternal life is current only when we are with God like the virgins with oil in their lamps. If it were not so, Jesus would surely have said another parable? Something like, the ten chosen virgins were given lamps that never die.

But there is no need to be ugly with each other. If we have the witness of the Holy Spirit, we have the witness of the Holy Spirit! Believing if we carry our cross or once truly saved = saved eternally are both fine in comparison to God chose babies 1-10 for heaven and 11-20 for hell.

James 4:8 is a good verse that sums it up for me ''Come near to God and He will come near to you''.
 
Scorners of the faith always have something not a good thing to say, whatever what doctine or denominations we have.

But hearing that from one Christian telling another Christian…. I don’t know….

I remember a film I think it about Attila the Hun….
One Hun told the other, he is a coward and the person asked: you call a brother Hun a coward?

How he spoke it like it sounds to me: the accusation is a betrayal and yet a forgiveness at same time….

Same here: IMO: a Christian always thinks his interpretation gives glory to God…

The interpretation maybe not be correct to the other: but only God knows the hearts of men.
 
The OP has requested that this thread be closed, so shall it be. Let everyone be convinced in their own hearts of the manner in which they stand before the Lord, and give Him praise, for their standing was purchased at a great price, amen.
 
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