Speak Your Mind

Status
Not open for further replies.
Historically, most threads end up going off-topic, so I thought it would be novel to start one that has no topic in particular, and see where it goes. This can be the free-for-all array of topics that should not cause any issues with another's desire for guided conversation.

So, how about it? What's on your mind?

MM
 
Sodom and Gomorrah is on my mind.

We know how the story goes, I would assume, and we know the
end result and why it happened. But, what if, just if, there had been
10 righteous in the city. By God's own vow He would have spared the
city for just 10 people. Now, thinking through this scenario those 10
people would have been surrounded by wickedness. Would they have
hid out? Huddled together? What do we do when we are surrounded
by wickedness?

God's most often repeated commandment throughout the Bible is
"FEAR NOT". Yet, we hunker down, huddle up, and hide so easily.
Why is that Gideon, Moses, Joshua, Jeremiah, etc. all struggled with
being a called of God in their perception of inability? What if, even now
God is sparing the world of His wrath, in part, just because of you and a
few others? 10 people could have saved a city. 10!

What do you say of this scattered assembly of words?
 
First off God already knew how many righteous were there. God would have been working with Lot and his family. We know God hears the righteous cry (Ps 34).

The only others that might have been righteous would have been those converted through the actions of Lot and his family. None though come to God unless the Father draws them, so even those converted would have been led of God to change.
 
NS, that's a good point. I connected the ten virgins, but not Lot in relation to Sodom. The righteous were removed. When we look at the anti-christ coming to power, it's Holy Spirit working through the Church to restrain him and his empowerment from Satan. With the Church gone, the evil will have free reign to push even greater levels of evil as a manifestation of God's wrath upon the remainder of this earth's population. That, in turn, will drive many of the lukewarm to setting their minds and hearts on fire for the Lord, even to the point of death through martyrdom...thus that multitude no man could number who John saw in Heaven.

Good one. I had heard it before, but haven't had it come back to the forefront of my thinking until you brought it up again. Thank you.

MM
 
Revelation 20:4-6

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It's fascinating when we read scripture for what it says, and what it does not say. The context shows that it is the Tribulation saints who will be those who are here on this earth ruling and reigning during the thousand years. There's no mention of the Church being a part of that population. That might be on account of us still possessing the place Jesus went to prepare for the Church, where we will be with Him forever more. Granted, that's not set in stone in my understanding, but there does appear to be a distinction in the narrative.

MM
 
Recently, I was contemplating the word lovingkindness and it's usage in the KJV.

Most of the time I like the KJV translation. There are sometimes though that I feel that other translations use a more precise word and one of those is for H2617 which is only 30 times translated lovingkindness(es) where as NASB95 translates it this way 181 times.

Lovingkindness is an archaic word, but it more closely describes the Hebrew word "hesed."

Any thoughts?
 
Recently, I was contemplating the word lovingkindness and it's usage in the KJV.

Most of the time I like the KJV translation. There are sometimes though that I feel that other translations use a more precise word and one of those is for H2617 which is only 30 times translated lovingkindness(es) where as NASB95 translates it this way 181 times.

Lovingkindness is an archaic word, but it more closely describes the Hebrew word "hesed."

Any thoughts?

As a compound word, it promotes a superior ethic that touches upon salvation itself. So, no, I don't consider its age in language to be archaic to the point that it no longer has a profound meaning in modern language. The only confusion I can think of that may arise in many modern people's understanding is in the context of the warped sense of love so many today harbor. To most these days, love is defined as approval. Case in point: "If you love me, you will approve of all that I feel, believe, embrace, practice, say, et al..." Lack of total approval of any and all things the world desires they define as hatred.

The term "lovingkindness" touches upon what Paul had to say on the subject:

Corinthians 13:1-3

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

I need more of that compound word in my life, so it's validity for all time and all people is fully intact.

MM
 
As a compound word, it promotes a superior ethic that touches upon salvation itself. So, no, I don't consider its age in language to be archaic to the point that it no longer has a profound meaning in modern language. The only confusion I can think of that may arise in many modern people's understanding is in the context of the warped sense of love so many today harbor. To most these days, love is defined as approval. Case in point: "If you love me, you will approve of all that I feel, believe, embrace, practice, say, et al..." Lack of total approval of any and all things the world desires they define as hatred.

The term "lovingkindness" touches upon what Paul had to say on the subject:

Corinthians 13:1-3

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

I need more of that compound word in my life, so it's validity for all time and all people is fully intact.

MM

I agree as Christians I believe we all do.

"hesed" is a complex Hebrew word that means more than mercy which is the common translation in the KJV.

Strong's has this to say about the word.
In general one may identify three basic meanings of the word, which always interact: "strength," "steadfastness" and "love." Any understanding of the word that fails to suggest all three inevitably loses some of its richness.....

cp
 
NS, that's a good point. I connected the ten virgins, but not Lot in relation to Sodom. The righteous were removed. When we look at the anti-christ coming to power, it's Holy Spirit working through the Church to restrain him and his empowerment from Satan. With the Church gone, the evil will have free reign to push even greater levels of evil as a manifestation of God's wrath upon the remainder of this earth's population. That, in turn, will drive many of the lukewarm to setting their minds and hearts on fire for the Lord, even to the point of death through martyrdom...thus that multitude no man could number who John saw in Heaven.

Good one. I had heard it before, but haven't had it come back to the forefront of my thinking until you brought it up again. Thank you.

MM

Without parable Christ spoke not.

Ten in multiples, hundred, thousand and thousands of millions. Are metphors used in parables to represent the whole or perfect .

Where five would represent redemption. If one sheep, a picture of redemption is lost the whole (100) is put in jeopardy. Five of the virgins were the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church.

Luke 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Below the wages were changed every time using ten to indicate the whole

Genesis 31:7 And your father hath deceived me, and changed my wages ten times; but God suffered him not to hurt me.

Ten in multiples used in the same way .

Genesis 18:31-32 King James Version (KJV) And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Ten representing all the goods

Genesis 24:10And the servant took ten camels of the camels of his master, and departed; for all the goods of his master were in his hand: and he arose, and went to Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor.

Below God desiring we give him the whole tithe it is represented by tenth .

Genesis 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Again in multiples of ten hundred thousand they make up the whole .

Genesis 32:14-16 King James Version (KJV) Two hundred she goats, and twenty he goats, two hundred ewes, and twenty rams, Thirty milch camels with their colts, forty kine, and ten bulls, twenty she asses, and ten foals. And he delivered them into the hand of his servants, every drove by themselves; and said unto his servants, Pass over before me, and put a space betwixt drove and drove.

Many examples folow .
 
Without parable Christ spoke not.

Ten in multiples, hundred, thousand and thousands of millions. Are metphors used in parables to represent the whole or perfect .

Where five would represent redemption. If one sheep, a picture of redemption is lost the whole (100) is put in jeopardy. Five of the virgins were the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church.

Luke 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Below the wages were changed every time using ten to indicate the whole

Genesis 31:7 And your father hath deceived me, and changed my wages ten times; but God suffered him not to hurt me.

Ten in multiples used in the same way .

Genesis 18:31-32 King James Version (KJV) And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Ten representing all the goods

Genesis 24:10And the servant took ten camels of the camels of his master, and departed; for all the goods of his master were in his hand: and he arose, and went to Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor.

Below God desiring we give him the whole tithe it is represented by tenth .

Genesis 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Again in multiples of ten hundred thousand they make up the whole .

Genesis 32:14-16 King James Version (KJV) Two hundred she goats, and twenty he goats, two hundred ewes, and twenty rams, Thirty milch camels with their colts, forty kine, and ten bulls, twenty she asses, and ten foals. And he delivered them into the hand of his servants, every drove by themselves; and said unto his servants, Pass over before me, and put a space betwixt drove and drove.

Many examples folow .

I'm not sure I follow (understand) your full meaning, but this I will say:

When Jesus said, "There was once a man...," He was not lying. He was speaking of a real person and events, not just a parable for teaching purposes. When He spoke of Lazarus and the rich man, He was speaking of real men who lived in the exact situation described, who were in the places described, both of which still exist beneath the surface of this earth.

I agree that Jesus at times spoke of (for example) a "stone" and other objects as metaphors of representation, and sometimes to mask the meaning from those who lack spiritual discernment, but attempts at trying to put the cookies so high up on the shelf that most believers can't get them, that's beyond the line of ministry as presented in the scriptures. This touches upon the outrage of spiritualizing scripture to the point that so many use to promote the idea that we all allegedly need men of greater spiritual stature than ourselves to teach and reveal to us the "deeper truths."

No, sir.

You and I have already agreed with 1 John 2:27. We are not left here to flounder about, and thus needing men to define "ten" and its meaning, etc. We can get so wrapped up in the depths of what we think we know about numbers and representations that we rob others of the core truths of what the Lord is trying to convey. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Ok, let's try this: I once knew a man who is related to my wife. He preached for sixty plus years, and his preaching went so deep into the mists of numbers and the colors of the gems of the priests breast plate, and all manner of other symbology that, when I looked around, everyone may as well have had bubbles popping all around their heads in myopic incomprehension, as if they were all on drugs and sitting there in an incoherent stupor. Their minds and hearts were not edified with the incomprehensible meaning in the symbologies that would have otherwise touched their hearts. Ahh, but they had a deep respect for the man and his knowledge, even though they learned next to nothing. They patted him on the back, which only reinforced his ineffective preaching and self-pride in his prowess in knowledge. He was like R. C. Sproul, who could run circles around most people with the 50-letter words he spouted, and thus leaving behind the simpler folk in unfruitful incomprehension.

Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

2 Cor. 1:12 For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

It is this distinction that set men like Dr. J. Vernon McGee apart. He understood the importance of the simplicity that is in Christ. He spoke often of placing the cookies on the lower shelf so that even the kiddies could get some. Those who want to be as the Pharisees, impressing others with their "deep knowledge" of symbolism and deep, unfathomable meaning in numbers and other representations, why speak on an unfruitful level? In speaking simply, we will hear far more "Praise the Lord!" reactions from the masses who are able to understand.

I hope this aids in all our ability to reach more people in our ministry of the Gospel and in discipling new babes in Christ Jesus. It's great to feast on the meat, but when the chunks are so large that we can't even chew them into a consistency we can swallow, all we do is choke on it all, along with the babes on the milk who can't even get the morsels into their mouths to try and grow into maturity.

MM
 
out·li·er
/ˈoutˌlīər/

Geology

Statistics
noun

  1. a person or thing situated away or detached from the main body or system.
    "less accessible islands and outliers"
    • a person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
      "an outlier in Faulkner's body of work"
    • GEOLOGY
      a younger rock formation isolated among older rocks.
Very cool word thank you for sharing.
 
When Jesus said, "There was once a man...," He was not lying. He was speaking of a real person and events, not just a parable for teaching purposes. When He spoke of Lazarus and the rich man, He was speaking of real men who lived in the exact situation described, who were in the places described, both of which still exist beneath the surface of this earth.

I agree that Jesus at times spoke of (for example) a "stone" and other objects as metaphors of representation, and sometimes to mask the meaning from those who lack spiritual discernment, but attempts at trying to put the cookies so high up on the shelf that most believers can't get them, that's beyond the line of ministry as presented in the scriptures. This touches upon the outrage of spiritualizing scripture to the point that so many use to promote the idea that we all allegedly need men of greater spiritual stature than ourselves to teach and reveal to us the "deeper truths."

No, sir.

You and I have already agreed with 1 John 2:27. We are not left here to flounder about, and thus needing men to define "ten" and its meaning, etc. We can get so wrapped up in the depths of what we think we know about numbers and representations that we rob others of the core truths of what the Lord is trying to convey. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Ok, let's try this: I once knew a man who is related to my wife. He preached for sixty plus years, and his preaching went so deep into the mists of numbers and the colors of the gems of the priests breast plate, and all manner of other symbology that, when I looked around, everyone may as well have had bubbles popping all around their heads in myopic incomprehension, as if they were all on drugs and sitting there in an incoherent stupor. Their minds and hearts were not edified with the incomprehensible meaning in the symbologies that would have otherwise touched their hearts. Ahh, but they had a deep respect for the man and his knowledge, even though they learned next to nothing. They patted him on the back, which only reinforced his ineffective preaching and self-pride in his prowess in knowledge. He was like R. C. Sproul, who could run circles around most people with the 50-letter words he spouted, and thus leaving behind the simpler folk in unfruitful incomprehension.
Hi thanks for the reply.

We can get so wrapped up in the depths or possibly ignore the gospel understanding as we search for silver or gold

I am not trying to run circles above another. I am no scholar. We are lovingly commanded to study and seek His approval and not the approval of men the spirit of the antichrist. (1 John 2:27? He has not left us without the tools necessary to rightly divide the parables as prophecy. In that way there must be heresies or person opinions of what we think he is informing us of.

It does not take a lot to search out how the word ten in multiples is used. Especially being informed that without parables Christ our teacher spoke not. Tools like 2 Corinthians 4:18 become valuable when rightly dividing the parables mixing the unseen things of God with those seen the temporal of men. By that we can rest being yoked with Christ our burden become lighter. .

The gospel is hid in parables they unlock the mysteries of the ceremonial laws like that of circumcision represents the first born Son of man, Jesus. Revealed in parables. They preached the gospel the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory (the first resurrection) that followed.

2 Corinthians 4: 3-7 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

If our gospel be hid in parables we have the 20/20 prescription neededbelow to rightly divide mixing faith. .

2 Corinthians 4: 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Numbers and the colors of the gems of the priests breast plate, and all manner of other metaphors used to hide the gospel understanding are necessary to help maintain a living faith .It does not take away from the historical accuracy. Without parables the hidden manna, Christ spoke not.

Speaking numbers used in another way as to those who do number days (time periods) and manpower , and compare themselves to themselves and not to as it is written alone it would seem they would resist walking by faith the signified tongue of prophecy , According to the introduction of the book of Revelation . Not a salvation issue.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
 
out·li·er
/ˈoutˌlīər/

Geology

Statistics
noun

  1. a person or thing situated away or detached from the main body or system.
    "less accessible islands and outliers"
    • a person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
      "an outlier in Faulkner's body of work"
    • GEOLOGY
      a younger rock formation isolated among older rocks.
Very cool word thank you for sharing.


Good definition. Words can be used in two ways

When it comes to spiritual (unseen ) things, then we must be careful . Remember Peter under a law of the fathers that walked by sight claimed to be the Rock that the gates of hell could never prevail against. (The gospel) turning inspiration upside down earthly inspired of the evil one.

Or in a series of parables (Luke 9) when Jesus purposely hid the meaning from the apostles. They wondered never coming to an end (faith).

Jesus became an distant island .The apostles thought he went off the deep end (chapter 13) in their idea of unity . They took a vote as to who was the greatest Rabbi. .Jesus less than the covid 19 safe distance. (6 ft.)

He was teaching them how to walk by faith. Ended up rebuking them verse 55 informing them they no not what manner of spirit they were trusting.

They already knew how to walk by sight .They desired to bring down fire on the gentiles. . . out of sight out of mind. The pagan foundation. as in.. . . Who needs to believe in a God not seen. . . the faithless mentality.
 
Hi thanks for the reply.

We can get so wrapped up in the depths or possibly ignore the gospel understanding as we search for silver or gold

I am not trying to run circles above another. I am no scholar. We are lovingly commanded to study and seek His approval and not the approval of men the spirit of the antichrist. (1 John 2:27? He has not left us without the tools necessary to rightly divide the parables as prophecy. In that way there must be heresies or person opinions of what we think he is informing us of.

It does not take a lot to search out how the word ten in multiples is used. Especially being informed that without parables Christ our teacher spoke not. Tools like 2 Corinthians 4:18 become valuable when rightly dividing the parables mixing the unseen things of God with those seen the temporal of men. By that we can rest being yoked with Christ our burden become lighter. .

The gospel is hid in parables they unlock the mysteries of the ceremonial laws like that of circumcision represents the first born Son of man, Jesus. Revealed in parables. They preached the gospel the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory (the first resurrection) that followed.

2 Corinthians 4: 3-7 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

If our gospel be hid in parables we have the 20/20 prescription neededbelow to rightly divide mixing faith. .

2 Corinthians 4: 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Numbers and the colors of the gems of the priests breast plate, and all manner of other metaphors used to hide the gospel understanding are necessary to help maintain a living faith .It does not take away from the historical accuracy. Without parables the hidden manna, Christ spoke not.

Speaking numbers used in another way as to those who do number days (time periods) and manpower , and compare themselves to themselves and not to as it is written alone it would seem they would resist walking by faith the signified tongue of prophecy , According to the introduction of the book of Revelation . Not a salvation issue.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

I realize you like speaking of all the items in this post, such as the importance of numbers and colors, and such, but at the same time, for those who are in Christ, we do indeed can tap into those deeper things. However, to say they are at the level of importance that all should pursue them in this life, no. I must reject that. The many simpler folks I know do not and cannot aspire to that level in their faith, and the Lord is well pleased with them regardless.

When it comes to those other things of which you speak, I may be able to run circles around you with them and so many other things I have studied over the decades, but to what avail? I have dabbled into depths of scholarship that most do not ever delve, and yet I take far greater pleasure speaking with my fellow brothers and sisters on the level of their understanding so that they too are edified. I love them for their simplicity, and it helps to keep me humble.

Years ago, when I was so impressed with all my knowledge, a wonderful elderly man commented about my intelligence, but the look in his eyes shamed me because I could see that he was not edified by the overpowering depths I spoke in my rhetoric that night to the group. In that moment, I cried out to the Lord in my heart and mind...no, I screamed, that the Lord would give to me the ability to relate to all in a manner that they are blessed by not my words that I speak, but that the Spirit uses my words more effectively down into their hearts to edify and build them up. The Spirit of the Lord showed to me the beauty in simplicity.

So, I am forced to reject the idea that one must understand all those other things for the power in the Truth to be available to them. The Lord stated that in simplicity is the wisdom of the wide confounded and brought o to foolishness. I understand them, and more, and yet the Spirit continues to show me the beauty in simplicity, just as the flowers of the field have beauty that no king has ever surpassed in all the wealth they had at their command for colorful garments and raiment.

It's with joy and love that I declare myself a simple servant of the Most High, no matter what I have roiling on the back burner or in the oven of all my other thinking. All that knowledge doesn't make me a better servant of Christ. It all may help me to better understand other scholars when I read science and medical journals, but people are so very precious, I will no longer push them away with the glitter al knowledge that doesn't benefit the average believer by any means when they are not ready for those depths.

MM
 
Paul was very well educated and had a lot to teach about all things Scripture
as he was raised learning that stuff. He could have written all kinds of 10 dollar
words but instead kept his teaching at about a 3rd grade level.
Instead of having His eyes opened by Jesus and speaking cryptically and
teaching how to be ramblers of all the symbols and junk he taught the truth that
we need to be set free from formalities that run people off from the faith. Being
that two Christians that agree 100% with one another about the deeper meanings
with stuff in the Bible would be like finding oil in a water faucet we should focus
on the facts as they are presented. We don't need to decipher it, decode it, or fill
in the blanks. If it's a parable then there should be a lesson attached to it as well.
Jesus said He came to set us free and I am free from all the garble of the faith and
focus on the grace of our Savior who loves me even when I don't always agree with
Him and must repent.
How to decode Scripture: Read it, believe it, live it.
Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.
 
I realize you like speaking of all the items in this post, such as the importance of numbers and colors, and such, but at the same time, for those who are in Christ, we do indeed can tap into those deeper things. However, to say they are at the level of importance that all should pursue them in this life, no. I must reject that. The many simpler folks I know do not and cannot aspire to that level in their faith, and the Lord is well pleased with them regardless.

When it comes to those other things of which you speak, I may be able to run circles around you with them and so many other things I have studied over the decades, but to what avail? I have dabbled into depths of scholarship that most do not ever delve, and yet I take far greater pleasure speaking with my fellow brothers and sisters on the level of their understanding so that they too are edified. I love them for their simplicity, and it helps to keep me humble.

Years ago, when I was so impressed with all my knowledge, a wonderful elderly man commented about my intelligence, but the look in his eyes shamed me because I could see that he was not edified by the overpowering depths I spoke in my rhetoric that night to the group. In that moment, I cried out to the Lord in my heart and mind...no, I screamed, that the Lord would give to me the ability to relate to all in a manner that they are blessed by not my words that I speak, but that the Spirit uses my words more effectively down into their hearts to edify and build them up. The Spirit of the Lord showed to me the beauty in simplicity.

So, I am forced to reject the idea that one must understand all those other things for the power in the Truth to be available to them. The Lord stated that in simplicity is the wisdom of the wide confounded and brought o to foolishness. I understand them, and more, and yet the Spirit continues to show me the beauty in simplicity, just as the flowers of the field have beauty that no king has ever surpassed in all the wealth they had at their command for colorful garments and raiment.

It's with joy and love that I declare myself a simple servant of the Most High, no matter what I have roiling on the back burner or in the oven of all my other thinking. All that knowledge doesn't make me a better servant of Christ. It all may help me to better understand other scholars when I read science and medical journals, but people are so very precious, I will no longer push them away with the glitter al knowledge that doesn't benefit the average believer by any means when they are not ready for those depths.

MM
Thanks well said. ..it is not my idea to remove the simplicity of the gospel . Knowledge can puff up. Love can come alongside a multitude of sin and not be affected.

The idea of the gospel hid in the historical helped the old testament saints mix faith with the ceremonial laws, as shadow of the eternal to give them a daily living faith.

They received the end of their born again faith from the beginning as us but they looked ahead by the grace that worked in them we look back the same spirit of faith as it is written.

Those who seek after signs to wonder after as an addition they would seem to lost their focus on the finished work. No sign is given as to the literal last day hour or year we are not of the number those who number days or mankind like 144,000 the measure of man .We walk by the measure of faith the unseen.

It would seem that some do not believe the time of reformation came and is continuing to do its work of restoring the government of peace in the hearts of mankind it will become perfect peace in the new heavens and earth when we receive our eternal rest. .

Not a salvation issue .I would think more of how can we hear the signified tongue spoken of I the opening of the book of revelation?

1 Peter1:9-11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Parables which hide the unseen understanding are needed to understanding the unseen Like in the parable to "drink the blood" of men. While one (Catholicism) turns it into the false doctrine of Eucharist drinking literal blood. The JW’s literally forbid it

Understanding the parable is made by mixing faith using the things seen to give us the understanding of faith

The possibility or erring from either side make up two of the largest sects. That shows the importance of parables the revealer of mysteries

The erring from either side makes up two of the largest sects. That shows the importance of parables the revealer of mysteries. The same with other ceremonial shadows like circumcision.
 
I'm not sure I follow (understand) your full meaning, but this I will say:

When Jesus said, "There was once a man...," He was not lying. He was speaking of a real person and events, not just a parable for teaching purposes. When He spoke of Lazarus and the rich man, He was speaking of real men who lived in the exact situation described, who were in the places described, both of which still exist beneath the surface of this earth.

I agree that Jesus at times spoke of (for example) a "stone" and other objects as metaphors of representation, and sometimes to mask the meaning from those who lack spiritual discernment, but attempts at trying to put the cookies so high up on the shelf that most believers can't get them, that's beyond the line of ministry as presented in the scriptures. This touches upon the outrage of spiritualizing scripture to the point that so many use to promote the idea that we all allegedly need men of greater spiritual stature than ourselves to teach and reveal to us the "deeper truths."

No, sir.

You and I have already agreed with 1 John 2:27. We are not left here to flounder about, and thus needing men to define "ten" and its meaning, etc. We can get so wrapped up in the depths of what we think we know about numbers and representations that we rob others of the core truths of what the Lord is trying to convey. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Ok, let's try this: I once knew a man who is related to my wife. He preached for sixty plus years, and his preaching went so deep into the mists of numbers and the colors of the gems of the priests breast plate, and all manner of other symbology that, when I looked around, everyone may as well have had bubbles popping all around their heads in myopic incomprehension, as if they were all on drugs and sitting there in an incoherent stupor. Their minds and hearts were not edified with the incomprehensible meaning in the symbologies that would have otherwise touched their hearts. Ahh, but they had a deep respect for the man and his knowledge, even though they learned next to nothing. They patted him on the back, which only reinforced his ineffective preaching and self-pride in his prowess in knowledge. He was like R. C. Sproul, who could run circles around most people with the 50-letter words he spouted, and thus leaving behind the simpler folk in unfruitful incomprehension.

Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

2 Cor. 1:12 For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

It is this distinction that set men like Dr. J. Vernon McGee apart. He understood the importance of the simplicity that is in Christ. He spoke often of placing the cookies on the lower shelf so that even the kiddies could get some. Those who want to be as the Pharisees, impressing others with their "deep knowledge" of symbolism and deep, unfathomable meaning in numbers and other representations, why speak on an unfruitful level? In speaking simply, we will hear far more "Praise the Lord!" reactions from the masses who are able to understand.

I hope this aids in all our ability to reach more people in our ministry of the Gospel and in discipling new babes in Christ Jesus. It's great to feast on the meat, but when the chunks are so large that we can't even chew them into a consistency we can swallow, all we do is choke on it all, along with the babes on the milk who can't even get the morsels into their mouths to try and grow into maturity.

MM

There is something that should be considered by all who place a lot of opinion in parabels.

YOU MusicMan are correct. It is a learned fact that when Jesus spoke in "Parabels" He never used a PROPER name.

Many well meaning people say that Luke 16:16-30 is a parabel so they reject Hell as a real place.

But in that Scripture we see, Lazarus, Moses and Abraham's name used. That right there tells us that what Jesus said was not a Parable but a litral real explanation of what Hell was like.

Also......Paul said clearly that he preached CHRIST and Him crudified. Any sermon or Bible lesson that does not bring out Christ then it was not a Bible lesson at all.
 
Paul was very well educated and had a lot to teach about all things Scripture
as he was raised learning that stuff. He could have written all kinds of 10 dollar
words but instead kept his teaching at about a 3rd grade level.
Instead of having His eyes opened by Jesus and speaking cryptically and
teaching how to be ramblers of all the symbols and junk he taught the truth that
we need to be set free from formalities that run people off from the faith. Being
that two Christians that agree 100% with one another about the deeper meanings
with stuff in the Bible would be like finding oil in a water faucet we should focus
on the facts as they are presented. We don't need to decipher it, decode it, or fill
in the blanks. If it's a parable then there should be a lesson attached to it as well.
Jesus said He came to set us free and I am free from all the garble of the faith and
focus on the grace of our Savior who loves me even when I don't always agree with
Him and must repent.
How to decode Scripture: Read it, believe it, live it.
Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

Oh, man. That last part almost had me rolling on the floor! Good stuff, man.

MM
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top