Spiritual or Water Baptism?

Behold

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Water baptism is symbolic only. It does not produce the actual cleansing. It doesn't cause the old man to die and be reborn new. Water baptism is still important I believe as the outward sign of conversion and the symbolism we can learn from it.

The Holy Spirit on the other hand is the agency whereby we can be cleansed and the old man is put to death.

"What can wash away my sin.......nothing but water baptism"...

Amazing is the number of denominations and worldwide "christians" that believe the song says that....

They would read....>"nothing but the blood of Jesus"""", and have no idea what this means.
 

bobinfaith

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You know how analogies break down at some point. Well, the following is filled with holes, but it does draw some comparisons.

Lets pretend there was a virus that infected the world (I know that is kind of a stretch, but use your imagination) And the CDC & WHO ordered everyone to wear a mask to prevent the spread and protect yourself.

For what seemed like 50 years, this mask mandate was in place and people became accustomed to wearing the mask. Then one day the decree come out that in 10 days masks would no longer be necessary to protect and prevent, a new thing called H20 had been found that was not only healthier, but necessary for life.

On the tenth day …..many souls (about three thousand and twelve) removed their mask and breathed in that new life, ……. and Sooooooooooooolowly people began to remove the masks.

But their were many people who were hesitant …others said “we will wait for the Delta variant” and yet others said “I like the mask, it makes me feel good” “I will cut a hole in the mask so I can breathe this life giving oxygen, but still feel good.”……………and so it was.



On the day He was taken up Jesus Christ made a decree.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

The Word BUT in verse 5 is a conjunction and sets in contrast that which preceded it.

John TB also prophesied about this in Mat 3:11.



What about Peter water baptizing the Gentiles in Act 10:48 ….

Cornelius and the others had already spoke in tongues, which means they were born again before Pete mentions taking a dip. And later when Peter is recounting the event that took place with the Gentiles, Peter states Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with/in the Holy Ghost.

Philip and the Eunuch Act 8:35

Who asked for it …It was the Eunuch …..which, in reading the account, Philip stated “it is permitted…” He didn’t say… it is necessary. And I am not so sure I wouldn’t do the same thing if someone asked for it….it’s nothing more than symbolic.



Obviously, my vote is for Spiritual

Hello Sandman;

Thank you for sharing from another angle. When you stated, "Who asked for it …It was the Eunuch …..which, in reading the account, Philip stated “it is permitted…” He didn’t say… it is necessary. And I am not so sure I wouldn’t do the same thing if someone asked for it….it’s nothing more than symbolic.

Please clarify. Are you saying you would or wouldn't have water baptized someone else if they asked you, and would you be the prompting of the Holy Spirit, even if it was being symbolic?

I'm just wondering if I read and understand correctly.

God bless
you, Sandman, and your family.
 
Hello Sandman;

Thank you for sharing from another angle. When you stated, "Who asked for it …It was the Eunuch …..which, in reading the account, Philip stated “it is permitted…” He didn’t say… it is necessary. And I am not so sure I wouldn’t do the same thing if someone asked for it….it’s nothing more than symbolic.

Please clarify. Are you saying you would or wouldn't have water baptized someone else if they asked you, and would you by the prompting of the Holy Spirit, even if it was being symbolic?

I'm just wondering if I read and understand correctly.

God bless
you, Sandman, and your family.
Hi Bob
If someone, after receiving Jesus as their Lord and savior …truly desired to be water baptized I absolutely would do that. Even though it is symbolic…. that is where their head is at due to previous learning. For them, it is the confidence that they know in their heart they are born again.

To me it is no different than adding an extra number at the end of a phone number. Like if I sold phones (I don’t) and my phone number for marketing was 1-800-buy-phone (74663) that extra digit does not alter the phone number, the connection was made when 7466 was punched in.
 
I wouldn't refuse to baptize someone with water if they asked for a witness.
It's mostly for the benefit of onlookers because they can't SEE spirit.

1 John 5:8 mentions three witnesses, the water, the blood and the spirit. Which are in agreement. So they are like the other, the thing about water is that it's available. It's like when we have the Lords Supper, we are eating bread and having grape juice, though we are spiritually eating Jesus body and blood.
I mean no we don't literally drink blood and eat Jesus flesh as meat like a roast Jesus or anything. And we don't PRETEND to eat. We actually do eat bread thats been baked and drink grapes that have been squeezed.

I don't know why people are quibbling about this, its so basic! I think people ought to move on from baptisms as Hebrews 6:2 tells us to go on from milk to meat.

Honestly! Its water! If you've never had a bath or shower and when you finally have one you start appreciating it and then you just have one every day!

If you were constantly hungry and suddenly you have manna you want to eat it everyday don't you?
 

Behold

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Hi Bob
If someone, after receiving Jesus as their Lord and savior …truly desired to be water baptized I absolutely would do that. Even though it is symbolic…. that is where their head is at due to previous learning. For them, it is the confidence that they know in their heart they are born again.

To me it is no different than adding an extra number at the end of a phone number. Like if I sold phones (I don’t) and my phone number for marketing was 1-800-buy-phone (74663) that extra digit does not alter the phone number, the connection was made when 7466 was punched in.

Phillip told the eunuch, ..."If you have believed with all your heart"........then you may get in the water.

See what came first? See the reason you get in the water? You BELIEVE.
If you
research all the water baptisms in the bible, New Testament, starting in Acts 2, and using the Acts of the Apostles, (Acts), then you'll note that every single time someone is water baptized , they FIRST BELIEVED.
Why? Because the Gospel is..... to hear the "preaching of the Cross" and then the Holy Spirit brings this...."FAITH cometh by hearing".

The NT says that Abraham was justified by Faith, and that Abraham is the FATHER of our faith.
God says that His "work" is.....>"the work of God is that you BELIEVE on Jesus, whom God sent".

"Justification by faith."
"Faith is counted as righteousness"
"Without faith, it is impossible to please God".

Notice this verse. "he that believeth and is water baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth NOT, shall be damned"".

Notice carefully that "damnation" is connnected to BELIEVING or not, and "water" is not in that part of the verse.


Here is how i explain water baptism, as as analogy.

Lets say you join the army. So, you go and sign up, and they accept you.
Then then give you a uniform, because you are IN the army.
You wear it because its the symbol of already joining the army.

So water baptism, is the uniform. Salvation,( being born again), is joining up.
You should be water baptized, just as you should wear the uniform.

But here is the catch......you can be water baptized and not be born again, and you can wear a army uniform, and not be in the army.

Jesus said this...."depart from me, i never knew you"........
Now, look at "knew you"......see that ? ????
That means this......."I was never IN YOU, because you were never born again".
Jesus said, "you must be born again"., as this is the context regarding : "Knew you"< or not.
For Jesus to "know you", you have to be a part of His Spiritual Family, = born again.... you have to be "in Christ".

Let me describe this more clearly for you. In the bible, "to know" a woman, means to have sexual intimacy with her.
See that? that is a man joining his body, to/with a woman. "two shall be one flesh"..
So, when Christ "knows" you, then you are become His bride, and you are joined to Christ, as "One with God, In Christ".
See that?

"depart from me i never KNEW YOU">.........

See it now?

I was water baptized 11 yrs after i was born again and they drained the water. As it was being drained someone said to me....>"there go your sins, in that water"....And i thought......No, my sins are on The Cross, with Jesus bearing them..... they are not in water, they are in THE BLOOD ..

The dying thief on the Cross, is in heaven, and he was never water baptized at all.

And here are 2 more.... Paul said..."Christ sent me not to water baptize",...... and Jesus never water baptized anyone.
 
Phillip told the eunuch, ..."If you have believed with all your heart"........then you may get in the water.

See what came first? See the reason you get in the water? You BELIEVE.
If you
research all the water baptisms in the bible, New Testament, starting in Acts 2, and using the Acts of the Apostles, (Acts), then you'll note that every single time someone is water baptized , they FIRST BELIEVED.
Why? Because the Gospel is..... to hear the "preaching of the Cross" and then the Holy Spirit brings this...."FAITH cometh by hearing".

The NT says that Abraham was justified by Faith, and that Abraham is the FATHER of our faith.
God says that His "work" is.....>"the work of God is that you BELIEVE on Jesus, whom God sent".

"Justification by faith."
"Faith is counted as righteousness"
"Without faith, it is impossible to please God".

Notice this verse. "he that believeth and is water baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth NOT, shall be damned"".

Notice carefully that "damnation" is connnected to BELIEVING or not, and "water" is not in that part of the verse.


Here is how i explain water baptism, as as analogy.

Lets say you join the army. So, you go and sign up, and they accept you.
Then then give you a uniform, because you are IN the army.
You wear it because its the symbol of already joining the army.

So water baptism, is the uniform. Salvation,( being born again), is joining up.
You should be water baptized, just as you should wear the uniform.

But here is the catch......you can be water baptized and not be born again, and you can wear a army uniform, and not be in the army.

Jesus said this...."depart from me, i never knew you"........
Now, look at "knew you"......see that ? ????
That means this......."I was never IN YOU, because you were never born again".
Jesus said, "you must be born again"., as this is the context regarding : "Knew you"< or not.
For Jesus to "know you", you have to be a part of His Spiritual Family, = born again.... you have to be "in Christ".

Let me describe this more clearly for you. In the bible, "to know" a woman, means to have sexual intimacy with her.
See that? that is a man joining his body, to/with a woman. "two shall be one flesh"..
So, when Christ "knows" you, then you are become His bride, and you are joined to Christ, as "One with God, In Christ".
See that?

"depart from me i never KNEW YOU">.........

See it now?

I was water baptized 11 yrs after i was born again and they drained the water. As it was being drained someone said to me....>"there go your sins, in that water"....And i thought......No, my sins are on The Cross, with Jesus bearing them..... they are not in water, they are in THE BLOOD ..

The dying thief on the Cross, is in heaven, and he was never water baptized at all.

And here are 2 more.... Paul said..."Christ sent me not to water baptize",...... and Jesus never water baptized anyone.

I think we are on the same page regarding water ....please go back to the 3rd post in this thread.
Bob was asked me to clarify a statement I made in conjunction with the account of Philip and the Eunuch in that post.
 

Behold

Account Closed
I think we are on the same page regarding water ....please go back to the 3rd post in this thread.
Bob was asked me to clarify a statement I made in conjunction with the account of Philip and the Eunuch in that post.
Yes, i read that...
Thank you.
It was your final comment regarding Phillip and the Eunuch that inspired me to talk about WB.

Heretics love their water.
I was on a "cult of mary" Thread, not long ago on another forum.. ("cult of mary", is the early church father's 4-5ad Ephesus literal title for the Catholic Church, later revised).

So, one from that denomination was churning salvo's at the forum, regarding "over there it says that Noah and family were saved by water".
He and i then committed to a long string of posts where i kept showing him that this verse is not talking about water as savior, its talking about how the ARK kept NOAH and family OUT of the water that would have KILLED THEM, had then gotten in it. As that same water was in the process of drowning out a world that was infected with "alt sexual lifestyle"..

I patiently explained in at least 30 posts to this person, that Noah's ARK, is symbolic of the CROSS of Christ, and the water is symbolic of God's Judgement against SIN, that literally drowned a world filled full of human sexual perversion.
This Catholic still believes the water saved Noah, and also all Catholics.
Why?
Because they created a ""bible"", that is one of the finest tools of Satan ever created. Its the Douay Rheims. Taken from a "latin" translation of the "original" by Jerome.
Marin Luther, as you know.... was a Catholic prior to becoming blisteringly anti-catholic, and it was Jerome's horrible Latin translation that started him down that road toward Protestant recovery from the "dark ages".
You are familiar with the CC's doctrine of "penance"? You tell a Catholic Priest that you were bad, and He gives you a penance to do...
Well, that carnal doctrinal stink started with Jerome, who mistranslated "repentance" as "Penance', and the CC has been been doing penance ever since.
See, sometimes a scholar and a translator is the best devil's tool of all.

So, anyway, the "catholic bible" says .......In John 3.....>"you are born again OF water".

see that? Born again OF water........
This is "baptismal regeneration", or...the water causes the new birth.

That is why the Catholic Church is so involved with water water water....as they BELIEVE that the water causes you to be born again.

Jesus says, "you must be born again", and He's certainly not talking about water.
 
Last edited:

RDJ

Account Closed
Phillip told the eunuch, ..."If you have believed with all your heart"........then you may get in the water.

See what came first? See the reason you get in the water? You BELIEVE.
If you
research all the water baptisms in the bible, New Testament, starting in Acts 2, and using the Acts of the Apostles, (Acts), then you'll note that every single time someone is water baptized , they FIRST BELIEVED.
Why? Because the Gospel is..... to hear the "preaching of the Cross" and then the Holy Spirit brings this...."FAITH cometh by hearing".

The NT says that Abraham was justified by Faith, and that Abraham is the FATHER of our faith.
God says that His "work" is.....>"the work of God is that you BELIEVE on Jesus, whom God sent".

"Justification by faith."
"Faith is counted as righteousness"
"Without faith, it is impossible to please God".

Notice this verse. "he that believeth and is water baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth NOT, shall be damned"".

Notice carefully that "damnation" is connnected to BELIEVING or not, and "water" is not in that part of the verse.


Here is how i explain water baptism, as as analogy.

Lets say you join the army. So, you go and sign up, and they accept you.
Then then give you a uniform, because you are IN the army.
You wear it because its the symbol of already joining the army.

So water baptism, is the uniform. Salvation,( being born again), is joining up.
You should be water baptized, just as you should wear the uniform.

But here is the catch......you can be water baptized and not be born again, and you can wear a army uniform, and not be in the army.

Jesus said this...."depart from me, i never knew you"........
Now, look at "knew you"......see that ? ????
That means this......."I was never IN YOU, because you were never born again".
Jesus said, "you must be born again"., as this is the context regarding : "Knew you"< or not.
For Jesus to "know you", you have to be a part of His Spiritual Family, = born again.... you have to be "in Christ".

Let me describe this more clearly for you. In the bible, "to know" a woman, means to have sexual intimacy with her.
See that? that is a man joining his body, to/with a woman. "two shall be one flesh"..
So, when Christ "knows" you, then you are become His bride, and you are joined to Christ, as "One with God, In Christ".
See that?

"depart from me i never KNEW YOU">.........

See it now?

I was water baptized 11 yrs after i was born again and they drained the water. As it was being drained someone said to me....>"there go your sins, in that water"....And i thought......No, my sins are on The Cross, with Jesus bearing them..... they are not in water, they are in THE BLOOD ..

The dying thief on the Cross, is in heaven, and he was never water baptized at all.

And here are 2 more.... Paul said..."Christ sent me not to water baptize",...... and Jesus never water baptized anyone.
I was baptized 2 years after been born again.

Water baptism is symbolic of our death and resurrection(spiritually)and is generally a christians first act of faith.If faith pleases God then I would definitely encourage the act of water baptism.
 
You are familiar with the CC's doctrine of "penance"? You tell a Catholic Priest that you were bad, and He gives you a penance to do...
Well, that carnal doctrinal stink started with Jerome, who mistranslated "repentance" as "Penance', and the CC has been been doing penance ever since.
See, sometimes a scholar and a translator is the best devil's tool of all.
That is an interesting bit of information ….I did not know that.

I was raised Catholic …and I have my contentions with the catholic church, but I am thankful for any amount of biblical teaching no matter what the religion.

I left the church at 15 because I decided to tell the truth in the confessional ….all other times I would lie….say stupid little thing like “I disobeyed my mom” “threw stones at my brother” actually I probably did that too. But the one time I opened up and told the truth…..he started screaming at me saying “there was no penance he could give me to redeem me”. I could have handled that, but my dad was in the other side of the penalty box, and he overheard much of what the priest said ……...that was a quit ride home.
The following Saturday I went back to the church and waited until there was nobody else waiting for confession …..I lit a smoke bomb, threw it in with the priest and wedged the door shut……that was the last time I set foot in a Catholic church. When you are going to hell as many times as I was …what did it matter. The following 6 or so years…. I spiraled out of control…thank God for mercy and grace.
 

crossnote

Helper
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Helper
I know baptism doesn't save us, but could someone explain this verse?

1 Peter 3:21 (KJV) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:21 (NASB) Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
 

CPerkins

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Staff member
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I know baptism doesn't save us, but could someone explain this verse?

1 Peter 3:21 (KJV) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:21 (NASB) Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Cleansing in itself doesn't bring about salvation but rather the change in mind and heart produced by the Holy Spirit that creates a good conscience toward God. Why? Because we will constantly need to be cleansed of filth. The change in mind and heart as the Spirit dwells in us brings about salvation making it possible to truly believe and act in love.
 

crossnote

Helper
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Helper
Cleansing in itself doesn't bring about salvation but rather the change in mind and heart produced by the Holy Spirit that creates a good conscience toward God. Why? Because we will constantly need to be cleansed of filth. The change in mind and heart as the Spirit dwells in us brings about salvation making it possible to truly believe and act in love.
I agree with that but I was wondering about the part where it says, "baptism now saves you". Could you (or someone) explain that part?
 

CPerkins

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I don't know of any verse that actually says "baptism saves us." Salvation is a gift or grace of God as the Father leads us to him through his Holy Spirit.
 

crossnote

Helper
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Helper
I know baptism doesn't save us, but could someone explain this verse?

1 Peter 3:21 (KJV) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:21 (NASB) Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
I don't know of any verse that actually says "baptism saves us." Salvation is a gift or grace of God as the Father leads us to him through his Holy Spirit.
It was this verse I was wondering about (the bold part).
 

CPerkins

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It was this verse I was wondering about (the bold part).

Reading 1 Pet 3:21 in context we see this referring back to 1 Pet 3:16, 18 God conscience is linked to good conduct in Christ. Christ also suffered for our sins (spoken evil of while doing good, he suffered righteously) and we are quickened (or made spiritually alive) by the Holy Spirit because Christ was resurrected having died for us. Baptism symbolizes not just death of the flesh, but the new life born of the Spirit. Christ's resurrection made this possible.

Baptism is linked to the receipt of the Holy Spirit that quickens us giving us good conscience. In this sense baptism does save because baptism brings about the new man, quickened and made new, spiritually alive through the Holy Spirit.
 

crossnote

Helper
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Reading 1 Pet 3:21 in context we see this referring back to 1 Pet 3:16, 18 God conscience is linked to good conduct in Christ. Christ also suffered for our sins (spoken evil of while doing good, he suffered righteously) and we are quickened (or made spiritually alive) by the Holy Spirit because Christ was resurrected having died for us. Baptism symbolizes not just death of the flesh, but the new life born of the Spirit. Christ's resurrection made this possible.

Baptism is linked to the receipt of the Holy Spirit that quickens us giving us good conscience. In this sense baptism does save because baptism brings about the new man, quickened and made new, spiritually alive through the Holy Spirit.
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1Pe 3:20-21)

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1Pe 3:21)

1 Peter 3:21 (NASB) Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

CP, taking a good look at this it struck me just now that this is simply using Noah's flood as an example/type/figure of our baptism into Christ (Rom 6:3-5)...which now saves us.

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. (Rom 6:3-5)
 
In Acts 2, after the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, Peter gives a beautiful sermon to the crowd in verses 14-41. Then, in verse 41, 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. - KJV

We're talking 3000 persons were saved that day, so were these souls spiritually baptized, or immersed in water (water baptised) that day?

This is not a trick question, but a discussion that would be beneficial to all of us.

God bless you all and your families.
Where in the city of Jerusalem at the time would a facility be available to gather together 3000 people and baptize them in water?
 

bobinfaith

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Where in the city of Jerusalem at the time would a facility be available to gather together 3000 people and baptize them in water?
Hello BibleLover;

I'm sorry for being late posting to your question. Jerusalem had pools of water and the temple mount where Peter preached fed by underwater springs.

I would have to refer back to my text books to give more specific information like the names of the pools.

I hope this helps with your question.

God bless
you and your family.



 

Mavi Bee

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I know baptism doesn't save us, but could someone explain this verse?

1 Peter 3:21 (KJV) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:21 (NASB) Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Who is the water of Life? Jesus Christ.
Who are we baptised into? Jesus Christ upon receiving His Spirit.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The passages you mentioned have nothing to do with physical water baptism as nothing done in the flesh can add to what the Spirit has done.
 

crossnote

Helper
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Helper
Who is the water of Life? Jesus Christ.
Who are we baptised into? Jesus Christ upon receiving His Spirit.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The passages you mentioned have nothing to do with physical water baptism as nothing done in the flesh can add to what the Spirit has done.
Yes I believe I stated similarly in #36
 
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