Suffering and Sin

CoffeeDrinker

CoffeeDrinker

Suffering and Sin
February 28, 2018
There was a man the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil.
Job 1:1 ​

Never assume that your suffering is due to sin in your life.

Sometimes when we undergo trials and adversity, we subconsciously wonder: “What did I do to deserve this?” Quite possibly we did nothing to deserve it.

We live in a fallen world. This is earth, not heaven. The world is broken. Bad things happen to good people and some of the worst things happen to some of the best people.

Suffering and pain have multiple causes. Sometimes our suffering is primarily due to sin. If so, it will probably be pretty obvious. If you get drunk and fall down a flight of stairs, yes, your pain is caused by your sin.

The Book of Job decisively refutes the idea that all our suffering is due to our sin. Job suffered like few people, if any, have ever suffered. I cannot fathom losing ten children. Plus, he lost his health and most of his wealth. Job’s pain was excruciating.

Was all of his pain due to his sin? His friends assumed it was. That was their basic argument. And, at the end of the book, God rebukes Job’s friends: “My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has” (42:7).

In fact, far from being an egregious sinner, Job was the single most godly man in all the earth. As God says to Satan: “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” (1:8).

The next time you assume that your suffering is always due to your sin, or that the suffering of someone else is always due to their sin, think of Job.

Better yet, think of Jesus. Jesus endured agonizing pain and yet he was the sinless and holy Son of God.
​
© 2018 WoodsEdge Community Church. All rights reserved. This article may be reproduced for any non-commercial use.​
 
And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, ‘Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?’
Job 1:8 YLT1898
https://bible.com/bible/821/job.1.8.YLT1898

If we read the passage above... Father was asking the devil a question... not bringing him up to or pointing job out to the enemy. The Father already knew that the devil had been trying to penetrate the hedge of protection that He had around him...
Hast not Thou made a hedge for him, and for his house, and for all that he hath — round about?
Job 1:10 YLT1898
https://bible.com/bible/821/job.1.10.YLT1898

Job opened the door for the enemy to steal, kill, and destroy all he had because of his worrying... which equates to fear, and being opposite of faith, is a sin for any believer




This devotion is correct that it's not always sin, but it is never the Father Who brings about suffering. It's always us and our mouths, or submitting to the enemy and his ways. He also uses our judging others, to bring judgement upon us. And as I'm learning... judgement runs pretty deep. It can even be as small as our saying "so and so, did this wrong" or "why didn't they do it this way".

Blessings
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
This reads as if God brought Job up to satan as if hey I bet you can't destroy him. That's totally opposed to what is written.
Click to expand...

I cannot speak for how to perceive what is written. Below are the scriptures out of the King James Bible. They are what they are and it reads clearly to me that Lord spoke to the enemy. I think the daily devotional was well written and a good reminder.

Job 1:6-9
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”

9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
 
CoffeeDrinker said:
I cannot speak for how to perceive what is written. Below are the scriptures out of the King James Bible. They are what they are and it reads clearly to me that Lord spoke to the enemy. I think the daily devotional was well written and a good reminder.
Click to expand...

I was only talking about the article. I said nothing about if God spoke to the enemy.
You say it's a good reminder.
Reminder of what?

Blessings
 
It's a good reminder in understanding that the enemy is actively searching for those he can destroy.
It's a good reminder to trust in God in all things regardless of the circumstances around you.
It's a good reminder to not listen to those who tell you to just curse God and die (lol).
It's a good reminder in knowing that some times things happen to good Christians even when they may not understand why.
It's a good reminder in knowing that God himself believes in his children.
It's a good reminder that God communicates with angels / the enemy, etc. and that he is always working out great things for us even when we do not see it.
It's a good reminder that the enemy is a manipulator.
 
It's also a good reminder in knowing that we need to hold on tight to God during suffering and temptations.
It's a good reminder that we need to surround ourselves with Christian friends and support.
And it's a good reminder that we should not judge others. Only God himself can judge the condition of a man's heart.
 
The problem stems in what Believers take away from Job and what man teaches about job.

Most come away believing in some way that God offered up Job and threw him under the bus. That is so far from the truth.

satan even speaks that God had a hedge (Blessing of the Lord) all around every area of Job and his life.

That's a key to this.....
satan knew this because he had been trying to destroy this Wealthy Blessed God Fearing man for some time but could Not.

This is what took it's toll on Job.
satan finally got Fear and Worrying into jobs heart.

That is why job got destroyed.

Let's look at Adam hiding naked from God.
God shows back up and ask where are you Adam.
God knew right where He was.

The disciples were talking amongst themselves and Jesus asked is this what you are talking about as He explained it again.

When God said Behold......that is a key.
We don't use this word much anymore but in any language it always means.
1. Look Here
2. Pay attention
God was Not bringing Job up to satan but already knew satan was trying to destroy him but could not UNTIL job began to speak and act out if fear and worry.

At this point God had No Choice but to remind satan that job was already at his hand BUT put a limit on how far he could go.

Blessings
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
The problem stems in what Believers take away from Job and what man teaches about job.

Most come away believing in some way that God offered up Job and threw him under the bus. That is so far from the truth.

satan even speaks that God had a hedge (Blessing of the Lord) all around every area of Job and his life.

That's a key to this.....
satan knew this because he had been trying to destroy this Wealthy Blessed God Fearing man for some time but could Not.

This is what took it's toll on Job.
satan finally got Fear and Worrying into jobs heart.

That is why job got destroyed.

Let's look at Adam hiding naked from God.
God shows back up and ask where are you Adam.
God knew right where He was.

The disciples were talking amongst themselves and Jesus asked is this what you are talking about as He explained it again.

When God said Behold......that is a key.
We don't use this word much anymore but in any language it always means.
1. Look Here
2. Pay attention
God was Not bringing Job up to satan but already knew satan was trying to destroy him but could not UNTIL job began to speak and act out if fear and worry.

At this point God had No Choice but to remind satan that job was already at his hand BUT put a limit on how far he could go.

Blessings
Click to expand...
I cannot speak for others and what they believe, nor do I want to place myself in a position of thinking I know better than others. I understand what you are saying and I understand the devotional.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
The problem stems in what Believers take away from Job and what man teaches about job.

Most come away believing in some way that God offered up Job and threw him under the bus. That is so far from the truth.

satan even speaks that God had a hedge (Blessing of the Lord) all around every area of Job and his life.

That's a key to this.....
satan knew this because he had been trying to destroy this Wealthy Blessed God Fearing man for some time but could Not.

This is what took it's toll on Job.
satan finally got Fear and Worrying into jobs heart.

That is why job got destroyed.
Click to expand...

Jim, your discussion of Job does not match the text of scripture.
Notice that Satan started testing Job in 1:13, when a mesenger came and told him of the calamities:
Job 1:13-19
Now on the day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them, and the Sabeans attacked and took them. They also slew the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three bands and made a raid on the camels and took them and slew the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, and behold, a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people and they died, and I alone have escaped to tell you.”​

Job was greatly grieved (tore his robe, shaved his head, etc), but fell to the ground and worshiped. He then took a thoughtful approach to his calamities:
Job 1:20-22
Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshiped. He said,​
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,​
And naked I shall return there.​
The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away.​
Blessed be the name of the Lord.”​
 Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God. (my emphasis)​

Note the last verse. Job had not sinned, nor blame God. Later, he wanted to make his case before God, but even there, he was only asking why, not saying God had wronged him.

Your explanation, that Job's calamities were because of his own worry (even though they began well before Job began to worry) is more like Eliphaz was saying in chapter 4. To Eliphaz, Jobs calamities were proof that Job had sinned.

All of Jobs supposed friends (Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar), and also his wife, felt that God, being holy and righteous would have prevented the enemy from harming a good man.

God, Himself responded in Job 42:7-9
Job 42:7-9
It came about after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has. Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, and go to My servant Job, and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves, and My servant Job will pray for you. For I will accept him so that I may not do with you according to your folly, because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.” So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job.​
​
God's response to Job, was only that Job had no right to demand the God justify Himself. Neither to Job himself , nor to his friends.
Paul touched on this in Romans 9:

Romans 9:19-22
You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?​

It is not for the clay to presume to make the potter justify Himself. We are His to use as He sees fit. He desires the best for us, but sometimes our best resides in what is best for His plan. This is not throwing anyone under the bus. This is the sovereign God working His plan.
 
Siloam said:
Your explanation, that Job's calamities were because of his own worry (even though they began well before Job began to worry) is more like Eliphaz was saying in chapter 4. To Eliphaz, Jobs calamities were proof that Job had sinned.
Click to expand...

And when the days of their feasting were over, Job sent for them to purify and hallow them, and rose up early in the morning and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed or disowned God in their hearts. Thus did Job at all [such] times.
Job 1:5 AMPC
https://bible.com/bible/8/job.1.5.AMPC

For the thing which I greatly fear comes upon me, and that of which I am afraid befalls me. I was not or am not at ease, nor had I or have I rest, nor was I or am I quiet, yet trouble came and still comes [upon me].
Job 3:25‭-‬26 AMPC
https://bible.com/bible/8/job.3.25-26.AMPC

A believer is told many times to trust God, and not fear... therefore worry is a sin. Job opened the door for the enemy to come in and destroy all he had because of the things he said... for he spoke his worry continually. Which was what Jim was trying to convey

Blessings
 
Siloam said:
Job 1:22 Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.

I would not contradict what the Bible itself says.
Click to expand...

In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.

This has nothing to do with Job allowing satan access.
satan had been and continued to get job to a place where he would blame God for what he, satan himself did and curse God.
As the scriptures above show.....
Job did not give in and blame God.

Again that had no bearing on job speaking and acting out of fear and worry and giving satan access.

I am not going to be pulled into a job debate. You are Free to Believe as you wish.
Also we have derailed this thread enough.
Blessings.
 
CoffeeDrinker said:
Suffering and Sin
February 28, 2018
There was a man the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil.
Job 1:1 ​

Never assume that your suffering is due to sin in your life.

Sometimes when we undergo trials and adversity, we subconsciously wonder: “What did I do to deserve this?” Quite possibly we did nothing to deserve it.

We live in a fallen world. This is earth, not heaven. The world is broken. Bad things happen to good people and some of the worst things happen to some of the best people.

Suffering and pain have multiple causes. Sometimes our suffering is primarily due to sin. If so, it will probably be pretty obvious. If you get drunk and fall down a flight of stairs, yes, your pain is caused by your sin.

The Book of Job decisively refutes the idea that all our suffering is due to our sin. Job suffered like few people, if any, have ever suffered. I cannot fathom losing ten children. Plus, he lost his health and most of his wealth. Job’s pain was excruciating.

Was all of his pain due to his sin? His friends assumed it was. That was their basic argument. And, at the end of the book, God rebukes Job’s friends: “My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has” (42:7).

In fact, far from being an egregious sinner, Job was the single most godly man in all the earth. As God says to Satan: “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” (1:8).

The next time you assume that your suffering is always due to your sin, or that the suffering of someone else is always due to their sin, think of Job.

Better yet, think of Jesus. Jesus endured agonizing pain and yet he was the sinless and holy Son of God.

​

© 2018 WoodsEdge Community Church. All rights reserved. This article may be reproduced for any non-commercial use.​
Click to expand...
I understand this devotional and the Bible.
I dont quite understand why others want to accuse Job, but you need to remember that Job lived before Jesus was on earth...Job didnt know of the redeemer yet.

None of the people living before Jesus had such a close relationship with God as Jesus did regarding God as his Father.
And yes Jesus suffered as he was being obedient to His Father. He had an intense trial that was more agonising than even what Job suffered because the whole of mankind was at stake.
 
Um nowhere does the Bible say Job GAVE satan access. Job did not even know it was satan was accessing him...that was what he was trying to figure out. He thought he was being super careful and trying to preempt God by sacrificing even when his sons and daughters MAY have sinned.

It wasnt fear or worry even, it was that Job trusted in himself that he was righteous and presumed on God...it was leviathan of pride that was attacking Job. We dont give satan access anything...satan comes to steal kill and destroy and if satan finds a way he will try. Satan tried to even get at Jesus. Three times!

I think you need to be careful reading the book of Job remember it is Old Testament. Being God fearing was actually a good thing. God did single Job out to be tested because He knew Job would pass! Job already had faith, but he grew to have even greater faith through this trial.
 
I come back to this post because was asked this question by someone going through a lot of stuff.

Its very easy to say to someone who is suffering well you sinned its your own fault. You let the devil in. But actually thats like kicking someone whos down and saying its your own fault for not walking properly. Or someone who was say burgled that it was their own fault and assume they must have just let the burglar in! Talk about Jobs comforter! It would be like saying to a deaf person well its your own fault you cant hear and a blind person well your parents must have been sinners. If we said this to every person who got sick saying well its your own fault you just dont have enough faith to he well, like Jobs comforters you are not seeing God clearly.

Faith is not a formula in which if you just SAY the right things, all will be well. God does not operate this way.

satan is a thief comes to steal kill and destroy and often will go after the righteous. satan doesnt exactly care whether people let him in or not, he will go after anyone but especially will attack the righteous. Why is Job celebrated as a man of faith in the Book of Hebrews - he had patience through this trial.

What about Jesus. Did Jesus somehow bring on his own cruxifiction? Did he suffer because he sinned and deserved to be crucified? Did he not speak enough faith filled words and say something wrong?! No he suffered cos he was facing the devil on our behalf.
 
CoffeeDrinker said:
Suffering and Sin
February 28, 2018
There was a man the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil.
Job 1:1 ​

Never assume that your suffering is due to sin in your life.

Sometimes when we undergo trials and adversity, we subconsciously wonder: “What did I do to deserve this?” Quite possibly we did nothing to deserve it.

We live in a fallen world. This is earth, not heaven. The world is broken. Bad things happen to good people and some of the worst things happen to some of the best people.

Suffering and pain have multiple causes. Sometimes our suffering is primarily due to sin. If so, it will probably be pretty obvious. If you get drunk and fall down a flight of stairs, yes, your pain is caused by your sin.

The Book of Job decisively refutes the idea that all our suffering is due to our sin. Job suffered like few people, if any, have ever suffered. I cannot fathom losing ten children. Plus, he lost his health and most of his wealth. Job’s pain was excruciating.

Was all of his pain due to his sin? His friends assumed it was. That was their basic argument. And, at the end of the book, God rebukes Job’s friends: “My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has” (42:7).

In fact, far from being an egregious sinner, Job was the single most godly man in all the earth. As God says to Satan: “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” (1:8).

The next time you assume that your suffering is always due to your sin, or that the suffering of someone else is always due to their sin, think of Job.

Better yet, think of Jesus. Jesus endured agonizing pain and yet he was the sinless and holy Son of God.

​

© 2018 WoodsEdge Community Church. All rights reserved. This article may be reproduced for any non-commercial use.​
Click to expand...
I agree and think it also helps to remember that we are currently subject to the finite realm in which we rely heavily on cause and effect attributing A onto B and don't realize that they are only two letters in the story. God being eternal does not have to do patch work but as the Word says - the footsteps of the righteous are ordered and all things work together for the good - 'the good' not neccessarily being fully realized on this side.
 
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