Taking up one's cross but not before men.

[crossnote]

The flesh wants to be liked and will sometimes do a bit of manipulation to achieve popularity. To walk the way of the cross is to deny those manipulative tactics. The Scriptures give us some guidelines in avoiding playing the hypocrite...

(Joh 8:29) “And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.”
Jesus' eye was single.

(Mat 10:22) “And you will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
A promise to be hated by all.

(Luk 16:15) And He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the sight of people, but God knows your hearts; because that which is highly esteemed among people is detestable in the sight of God.
So much for popularity in front of the True Judge.

(Joh 12:42-43) Nevertheless many, even of the rulers, believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, so that they would not be excommunicated from the synagogue; for they loved the approval of people rather than the approval of God.
Silently believing lest our reputation be ridiculed. Compromise is not God's way.

(Mat 16:23) But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”
Avoiding the cross is easy and our flesh says 'Amen'

(Pro 27:21) The crucible is for silver and the furnace for gold, And each is tested by the praise accorded him.
Not just trials, but flattery will test us.

That very church which the world likes best is sure to be that which God abhors.
— Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

[D3vot3d2G0d]

I agree!
This is an adverse way. Not easily traveled, and can cause emotional upset if there are disagreements.

Furthermore even in the best of churches where the doctrinal belief is solid among members there are still personal flaws in each of us that can grate.

I would tell ppl this isn't easy, living for God, but it is the best way to live in this world! I've lost nothing of value in doing so and gained untold blessing both here and there!

 

[Lanolin]

I find 'popularity' sometimes starts in school
For example, in american schools they have a thing where students vote for a class president. I suppose that's to teach civic responsibility, but it just seems it ends up being a popularity contest, and sometimes the worst behaviour come out of competition (or bribing for votes)

In NZ schools we don't have that. There is a 'head girl' or 'head boy' but it's usually just the teachers who nominate who they think is best to lead the students of the school, NOT the students. Of course, some teachers may favour their own children (if their children go to the same school where they teach) but generally they can tell who would make the best leaders who also get along with the teachers...so they tend to be students who are well rounded and not in it for the status. Also its not a role that many covet.

 

[crossnote]

I find 'popularity' sometimes starts in school

Where do you find refusing to stand up for the name of Jesus starts?

 

[D3vot3d2G0d]

 

[Lanolin]

Where do you find refusing to stand up for the name of Jesus starts?

what do you mean
?

I was talking about popularity

Whenever the national anthem is sung, (God defend NZ) everyone always stands. Even if ppl are agnostic. It's usually just the JWs that actually refuse to stand for that. I am not sure if they would find it offensive if something else was sung, or they are just against nationalism.

When I did Bibles in schools, it was the parents who could opt their children out. Actually a lot of children WANTED to do bibles in schools, but it was their parents that wouldn't let them.

So I would say probably its the parents directing their children. The parents might actually be christians themselves, but they don't want anyone else teaching the Bible. I know Catholic schools do NOT want bible taught in school. If they do, they gonna teach it their way.

I had some muslim and hindu kids at my school, and they weren't allowed to eat non halal meat or beef or pork, so they had vegetarian option. They themselves might have wanted to eat meat, because they were hungry, but their parents forbade them. Though a lot of teens actually choose to be vegan/vegetarian themselves against their parents wishes.

 

[Lanolin]

I had a friend who was christian in high school, and it was a public school (not an exclusively christian school) and she was always organising prayer groups and youth groups. She was never afraid to mention Jesus.

I just thought all christians were like her. lol

 

[crossnote]

what do you mean
?

I was talking about popularity

I was just referring back to the subject of the OP. (standing firm in the faith).

The parents might actually be christians themselves, but they don't want anyone else teaching the Bible.

waaa?

I had some muslim and hindu kids at my school, and they weren't allowed to eat non halal meat or beef or pork, so they had vegetarian option. They themselves might have wanted to eat meat, because they were hungry, but their parents forbade them. Though a lot of teens actually choose to be vegan/vegetarian themselves against their parents wishes.

Sounds like religious scruples to me...Romans 14.

 

[crossnote]

I had a friend who was christian in high school, and it was a public school (not an exclusively christian school) and she was always organising prayer groups and youth groups. She was never afraid to mention Jesus.

I just thought all christians were like her. lol

Just wondering how she'd fare under strong persecution.

 

[Lanolin]

Just wondering how she'd fare under strong persecution.

not sure cos all her family were christians, her dad was an assistant pastor.
Another friend in high school, her parents were missionaries to Malaysia I think, so she lived there for a time. In Malaysia, there are muslims, hindus and other religions. She was less evangelistic about her faith, but still stood up for Jesus. I recall she disagreed with evolution as it was taught in biology.

I think a hard place to be a christian is Indonesia, because its majority muslim with pockets of hinduism. Though my friend is from Indonesia and doesn't want to go back there to live.

Christians over there get a given a hard time.

 

[Lanolin]

excommunication is a real thing, that is why so many divorces, usually when a believer marries an unbeliever. They call their ex and ex for a reason - they can't bear talking about them, mentioning their name, being in the same room as them.

I don't know, in the Bible the unbeliever is free to leave, but it tends to be the unbeliever who holds the title deed to the property ---so the believer sort of has to stay in the marriage unless they have somewhere to go, and can't tell the unbeliever to leave unless they divorce.

It's real messy, and children get caught up in this as well. They don't have much say in the matter.

 

[bobinfaith]

The flesh wants to be liked and will sometimes do a bit of manipulation to achieve popularity. To walk the way of the cross is to deny those manipulative tactics. The Scriptures give us some guidelines in avoiding playing the hypocrite...

(Joh 8:29) “And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.”
Jesus' eye was single.

(Mat 10:22) “And you will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.
A promise to be hated by all.

(Luk 16:15) And He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the sight of people, but God knows your hearts; because that which is highly esteemed among people is detestable in the sight of God.
So much for popularity in front of the True Judge.

(Joh 12:42-43) Nevertheless many, even of the rulers, believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, so that they would not be excommunicated from the synagogue; for they loved the approval of people rather than the approval of God.
Silently believing lest our reputation be ridiculed. Compromise is not God's way.

(Mat 16:23) But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”
Avoiding the cross is easy and our flesh says 'Amen'

(Pro 27:21) The crucible is for silver and the furnace for gold, And each is tested by the praise accorded him.
Not just trials, but flattery will test us.

That very church which the world likes best is sure to be that which God abhors.
— Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Hello crossnote;

Thank you for posting this thread and it should make for a good topic.

Yes, to all you black-lighted. I grew up popular in grade, middle (junior high), high school, college and seminary all my life. I mean, I hung out with lots of kids, teens and college students at the cafe, diner, all the social events, house gatherings and attending church together.

The sad part is I was dealing with the flesh to sustain popularity and acceptance, and my focus on the spirit was a battle, as it should be. As we got older (married at 28 and she was 27) our faith increased and lost the "trouble to achieve popularity" and looking more to Jesus as our lone audience.

In John 8:29b, "I always to the things that are pleasing to Him."
Striving to please Him is tough for man and woman but by His strength in us makes it achievable.

In Matthew 10:22, "you will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved."
I'm already hated by others for Christ making me unpopular in their eyes, because I choose to endure Christ to the end.

Luke 16:15, "And He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the sight of people, but God knows your hearts;"
This is what I call my "discipline Scripture" to remind me. God knows our hearts.

John 12:42-43, "Nevertheless many, even of the rulers, believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, so that they would not be excommunicated from the synagogue; for they loved the approval of people rather than the approval of God."
We choose not to be ashamed of Jesus. We choose God.

Matthew 16:23, "But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”
This is another "discipline Scripture" for me. We forget and let down our guards. The battle within us is constant, but through our perseverance to the end, Jesus Wins!

Proverbs 27:21, "The crucible is for silver and the furnace for gold, And each is tested by the praise accorded him."
Another "discipline Scripture" for me. Whether Public or self praise received or praise given from my heart, it fall shorts, who gets all the glory?

These may be easy to say but we cannot achieve without our daily endurance in God first.

God bless you, crossnote, and your family.

 

[crossnote]

Hello crossnote;

Thank you for posting this thread and it should make for a good topic.

Yes, to all you black-lighted. I grew up popular in grade, middle (junior high), high school, college and seminary all my life. I mean, I hung out with lots of kids, teens and college students at the cafe, diner, all the social events, house gatherings and attending church together.

The sad part is I was dealing with the flesh to sustain popularity and acceptance, and my focus on the spirit was a battle, as it should be. As we got older (married at 28 and she was 27) our faith increased and lost the "trouble to achieve popularity" and looking more to Jesus as our lone audience.

In John 8:29b, "I always to the things that are pleasing to Him."
Striving to please Him is tough for man and woman but by His strength in us makes it achievable.

In Matthew 10:22, "you will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved."
I'm already hated by others for Christ making me unpopular in their eyes, because I choose to endure Christ to the end.

Luke 16:15, "And He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the sight of people, but God knows your hearts;"
This is what I call my "discipline Scripture" to remind me. God knows our hearts.

John 12:42-43, "Nevertheless many, even of the rulers, believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, so that they would not be excommunicated from the synagogue; for they loved the approval of people rather than the approval of God."
We choose not to be ashamed of Jesus. We choose God.

Matthew 16:23, "But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”
This is another "discipline Scripture" for me. We forget and let down our guards. The battle within us is constant, but through our perseverance to the end, Jesus Wins!

Proverbs 27:21, "The crucible is for silver and the furnace for gold, And each is tested by the praise accorded him."
Another "discipline Scripture" for me. Whether Public or self praise received or praise given from my heart, it fall shorts, who gets all the glory?

These may be easy to say but we cannot achieve without our daily endurance in God first.

God bless you, crossnote, and your family.

Yes, it seems that sharing truth without compromise on the one hand and loving others without offense on the other hand is a fine and narrow line indeed.

 

[Lanolin]

Popularity has its real downsides as those who've encountered fame/celebrity will tell you.

You might be loved TOO much, eg, those who remember Princess Diana. Everyone wanted to take her photo, and the photos were selling for millions to the papers (this was the days before selfies and social media). She was hounded by the press and it actually endangered her life. I think at first she liked it and tried to use it for good but it just became too much.