The Doctrine of Defiled Foods For Today? Really?

[Musicmaster]

Mark 7:14-16
14 And when he had called all the people [unto him], he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one [of you], and understand:
15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

There is an increasing number of false teachers out there who are placing the burden and curse of the Law of Moses upon professing Christians.

Granted, most do not believe it's a matter of salvation, but rather a matter of 'obedience'. Folks, if one is disobedient, then it is a matter of salvation, but that is a discussion for later.

The false teachers who demand that followers of Christ must adhere to the dietary laws within the Law of Moses, they clearly are in violation, first of all, to HEAR the Lord Himself and what He had to say on the matter. I mean, if I were in the room with those false teachers, I would have to ask them what part of "...Hearken unto me every one [of you], and understand:" they don't understand, along with "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."

False teachers don't have an ear to hear. You see, teaching falsehoods are one of the tools false teachers use to draw people to them. The churchianity populace, as well as the populace outside of them, has many, many people with itching ears.

Oh, and there's one other thing that is common in these fallen vessels of flesh we inhabit...we have a tendency to gravitate toward just about anything that sells itself as something that will aid in our salvation and right standing before the Lord in judgement.

So, given that the Lord of Glory Himself said, "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him...," that is easily understood to MEAN what is SAYS. Instead, the false teachers will do the intellectual magician slight of words to divert from, or inject into, meaning that simply isn't there. Look at the context of those verses:

Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Folks, you, me, we ALL have the literary freedom to take something said to us, and expand it outward to encompass other levels of relevance along the same line of thinking, so why not the Lord when He said that there is NOTHING FROM WITHOUT... How inclusive much is NOTHING? Do you see the problem here?

This is an entire sermon, but I will leave off for now and you can comment if you so desire.

Blessings to you, one and all.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

 

[Musicmaster]

Moving forward, Jesus also had this to say in private to His disciples about this topic:

Mark 7:17-23
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

This is so clear and understandable, and yet false teachers abound in driving professing believers back into the Law of Moses. If something is a matter of disobedience, then it is indeed a matter of salvation:

Titus 1:10-16
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, [even] a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians [are] alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

See also:

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Hebrews 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

So, the false teachers label all who do not seek to obey the Law of Moses today as guilty of disobedience to the Lord, which is indeed a matter of salvation when we read the verses above.

They can't have it both ways, so we're left with having to observe the dichotomy in their own teachings since no man can live in obedience to the Law of Moses, and so ALL are guilty of disobedience. What these false teachers then say is, "It's not a matter of perfect obedience, but rather attempting to be obedient."

Folks, attempting to obey a perfect system of Law, which no man was ever able to do apart from Christ Himself, the resulting curse from the sin of lacking in perfect obedience renders their teachings on this utterly self-defeating.

That is why I delved into what was meant by the term "fulfill" in the following verse:

"universally and absolutely, to fulfil, i. e. "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment": Matthew 5:17;" (Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Please note that the meaning the Greek word translated as "fulfill" in our English translations actually means that Jesus' purpose for coming was to demonstrate to us all God's will WITHIN the Law to be made known to man, and to be obeyed as it should be. Our obedience to the Law is by PROXY. In other words, Christ LIVED it in perfect obedience FOR us, and by obeying 'The Law of Christ" we have His righteousness imputed UPON us.

Do you know what the Law of Christ is?

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Those who would DARE to think themselves qualified to add to this the Law of Moses, they are clearly false teachers and utterly opposed to the Lord and His teachings to us. Please don't just take my word for it, but go and seek it all out for yourself, and doing as 1 John 2:27 says.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

 

[BibleLover]

This isn't a new phenomenon. False teachers have been trying to Judaize Christians ever since the Church was founded. The best way to deal with them is to ignore their aberrant teachings and address them only when necessary to prevent a listener from being deceived.

 

[Musicmaster]

BL, I happen to be in contact with a few of their followers around here locally, so am asking questions that will inevitably draw out the falsehoods in their beliefs. If I can pull some of them from the fire, then praise unto the Lord for that, and I appreciate your thoughts on this topic.

What I've found out is that they are not like the JW's, who spend enormous amounts of time learning the greater depths of their deceptions, and therefore being more steadfast in their beliefs. These people I know around here do some study, and do some practices, but they are, as they have told me, quite varied in their beliefs. They don't all know each other, so that too is a great plus for me reaching them because, as you saw in my above posting, although they will say that following Torah isn't a matter of salvation, they will still hold to the belief that not following Torah leads to the guilt for disobedience, which IS a matter of salvation.

1 Kings 13:26 And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard [thereof], he said, It [is] the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the LORD: therefore the LORD hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake unto him.

They teach that Torah is the word of the Lord just as binding as what a prophet hears directly from the Lord, and so:

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

If that isn't a matter of salvation in relation to their systems of doctrine, then they are either intellectually obtuse, dishonest, or just plain ignorant. The hyperbole they apply to key passages of the scriptures, and even adding to the scriptures what isn't there, it all betrays a serious disconnect from the scriptures into the traditions of men.

MM

 

[crossnote]

Here is a kosher morsel for the HR adherents to chew on...

James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Musicmaster]

Here is a kosher morsel for the HR adherents to chew on...

James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

They tend to think that's not a problem for them, mainly because (and they will never admit this) they subjectively pick and choose which laws are still binding upon them, and which are not. None of them can say, other than to point at themselves, which of all the flavors of HR is the right and true system of doctrines for following Torah. So long as they remain on their microcosmic islands of "Us vs Them," moving them positionally to try and see this all from another perspective isn't ever easy.

MM

 

[crossnote]

They tend to think that's not a problem for them, mainly because (and they will never admit this) they subjectively pick and choose which laws are still binding upon them, and which are not.

Of course it's not a problem for them when one half believes what God has spoken...


James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

they subjectively pick and choose which laws are still binding upon them, and which are not.

Won't they be in for a big surprise. Theological liberals do/say the same thing.

Matthew 5:18 (KJV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.b

 

[VictorianLady]

Never mind.

 

[Musicmaster]

One thing I will say is that some foods ARE best left alone...at least, for me.

I don't eat pork because of the triglycerides. Otherwise I would love to eat it because it does taste good.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Of course it's not a problem for them when one half believes what God has spoken...


James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


Won't they be in for a big surprise. Theological liberals do/say the same thing.

Matthew 5:18 (KJV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.b

CN, it's indeed fascinating how little critical thought there is out there. For them to say that some of the Law has been fulfilled, they lack understanding about the subjective nature of that reasoning. It's not about some of the Law no longer applying to us, it's about covenants.

Torah speaks DIRECTLY to Israel, not the rest of the world. The Hebrew language has enough directive precision of applicable direction to make clear that, when spoken to the Israelites, YOU means THEM, not YOU, me and all others who existed outside Israel from then until now.

The thief on the cross who was/is in paradise with Christ right now, he did not do works of the Law to add to the measure of his obedience. That man serves for several examples across a range of issues that are still being debated today, but those are entirely different topics.

Thanks for the discussion.

MM

 

[crossnote]

CN, it's indeed fascinating how little critical thought there is out there. For them to say that some of the Law has been fulfilled, they lack understanding about the subjective nature of that reasoning. It's not about some of the Law no longer applying to us, it's about covenants.

Torah speaks DIRECTLY to Israel, not the rest of the world. The Hebrew language has enough directive precision of applicable direction to make clear that, when spoken to the Israelites, YOU means THEM, not YOU, me and all others who existed outside Israel from then until now.

The thief on the cross who was/is in paradise with Christ right now, he did not do works of the Law to add to the measure of his obedience. That man serves for several examples across a range of issues that are still being debated today, but those are entirely different topics.

Thanks for the discussion.

MM

When my wife and I dabbled in the Messianic movement for a couple of months visiting their 'shauls' (sp) (about 12 years ago), we were astounded to find that the majority were Gentiles!

 

[Musicmaster]

When my wife and I dabbled in the Messianic movement for a couple of months visiting their 'shauls' (sp) (about 12 years ago), we were astounded to find that the majority were Gentiles!

Yes. Much of the Messianic movement is very similar in doctrine to the Hebrew Roots movement beliefs.

MM

 

[Via dolarossa]

One thing I will say is that some foods ARE best left alone...at least, for me.

I don't eat pork because of the triglycerides. Otherwise I would love to eat it because it does taste good.

MM

I don’t eat pork either.
I don’t eat much of any meats anymore. I once got food poisoning from prawns and will never eat shellfish again.

I love a good steak but it takes a long time to digest so I try to stay of too much meat.

On the other hand the vegan industry is worse and most of it is just expensive rubbish.

Grains beans and cheeses and nuts and seeds and decent vegetables make up a good diet with nice fish

 

[VictorianLady]

One thing I will say is that some foods ARE best left alone...at least, for me.

I don't eat pork because of the triglycerides. Otherwise I would love to eat it because it does taste good.

MM

Meat is very unhealthy, that's why I'm vegan.

 

[VictorianLady]

I don’t eat pork either.
I don’t eat much of any meats anymore. I once got food poisoning from prawns and will never eat shellfish again.

I love a good steak but it takes a long time to digest so I try to stay of too much meat.

On the other hand the vegan industry is worse and most of it is just expensive rubbish.

Grains beans and cheeses and nuts and seeds and decent vegetables make up a good diet with nice fish

I'm vegan, that's the best way to eat for me. I agree about processed vegan food, it's almost as bad as non vegan food. The sodium content is out of this world. I prefer as close to whole food plant based as possible. I stay away from all processed food, even vegan processed food.

 

[blueskies]

Grains beans and cheeses and nuts and seeds and decent vegetables make up a good diet with nice fish

This is very near our diet. We gave up red meat many years ago for several reasons and I don’t miss it, particularly when I see the prices today!

We do eat lots of fruits, vegetables, lighter cheeses and salads with fish, and occasionally chicken, but no mammals, or as my wife puts it, “…nothing with eye lashes.”

 

[Via dolarossa]

I'm vegan, that's the best way to eat for me. I agree about processed vegan food, it's almost as bad as non vegan food. The sodium content is out of this world. I prefer as close to whole food plant based as possible. I stay away from all processed food, even vegan processed food.

I used to be a vegan many years ago, it was healthy, but I did eat fish.

it was very difficult back then to eat out, so I gave it up. but now with all the creative chefs getting on board there is something for everyone