The Ending Of A Catholic Tradition??

Again, Glo....we are discussing the regular parish priest.....not the bishop. This is where problems seem to stem for your church.
 

Glomung

Account Closed
Somehow what I am writing is NOT getting across. I never said that all orthodox priest are not married.
I stated that all Orthodox monks are celibate. Orthodox priests may marry as long as they marry before they take the vows. There are two types of priests in the Orthodox church, parish priests (called "white priests" due to their vestments), they may be married as stipulated above, and "black priests" all of whom are celibate monks.
 
The Roman catholic church, and to a large extent the Orthodox and Coptic churches believe that to be a true servant of Christ you must "accept it" and be celibate. If the Protestants wish to serve God and wife/family then that is their issue.
To achieve real piety a person cannot have attachments to the world. Unless you have been around the truly pious you will never comprehend the difference. The Athonite Monks for example are truly "friends of God", not just a bunch of nice guys in funny clothes. They have a level of spirituality that cannot be developed when you live with home/wife/children and all the worldly trapping that family life entails.

This is what you wrote at the outset,glo...and since the OP and the thread posts (even your own) have been about priests primarily.
The Scottish Bishop's cry is about parish priests, not monks.

The whole maelstrom in the RCC is about parish priests, not monks.

Please think about this.
 
This not a new issue at all...
Nigrizia (The Italian RCC magazine published by the fathers of Comboni, a religious congregation founded in the 19th century that has missions in Africa) says that in Africa there are many priests who stick faithfully to celibacy but added that in many African countries, cultural factors make acceptance of the "Tridentine priest", or celibate priest difficult. .
"Many people know that today the phenomenon of priests and bishops having family is widespread in Africa," the magazine said.
It added that in May 2009 the Pope pressured two bishops to resign in the Central African Republic because they had wives and children.
At the same time priests in two dioceses defended their bishops and criticised the Vatican decision, the publication stated.
"These scandals oblige those responsible in the church to ask themselves about the exactness of the model of the priest and of the pastor coming from the Tridentine Reformation. It is a model which has its advantages and which gave great results. But is it a model valid everywhere and for all?"
The challenge of African clerical celibacy has been highlighted by Emmanuel Milingo, the former archbishop of Lusaka, in Zambia, who in 2001 challenged the Holy See by marrying.
Although he later repented and abandoned his wife in 2006, Milingo went back to her and has frequently defended his actions publicly. The Pope excommunicated him.
http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/10359
 

Glomung

Account Closed
Rusty, I'll have to agree with you on the one point. If the Roman Catholic church could see fit to accept the Orthodox
point of view on priestly marriage it would solve a few problems. However, change is slow and unlikely on certain points, and this one has been a sticking point for some time. That, and that the proponents of this change (on the Catholic side) have not been the most pure and moral.
 
Rusty, I'll have to agree with you on the one point. If the Roman Catholic church could see fit to accept the Orthodox
point of view on priestly marriage it would solve a few problems. However, change is slow and unlikely on certain points, and this one has been a sticking point for some time. That, and that the proponents of this change (on the Catholic side) have not been the most pure and moral.
Gotta agree with ya there!

Yeah...."Change" is not an operative word for the Vatican.
 
Well, he's confessed, asked for forgiveness. He is no longer a cardinal figure in the roman church, what more can he, should he do?
 
Oh...I'm not talking of the sins of that one man....I'm talking about the progressive deterioration of this tradition of presistly celibacy...It ain't working: give it up!
 
Didn't Paul say something about not letting priest's fall into sin by 'not' marrying somewhere? I can't remember the book...

1, 2 Timothy, Titus?
 
Didn't Paul say something about not letting priest's fall into sin by 'not' marrying somewhere? I can't remember the book...

1, 2 Timothy, Titus?
This?:
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

No priests listed, though, but the implication fits anyone, eh?
 
I think this is what I was going for:

1 Corinthians 7: 1-14

Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. But I speak this by permission, [and] not of commandment. For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife. But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

1 Timothy 3:1-7

This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
 
Right...I brought up the second verse in post #4...and Glo and I discussed the diff between priest and bishop, etc.
 
Did you do this one too?

Leviticus 21: 1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people: 2 But for his kin, that is near unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his son, and for his daughter, and for his brother, 3 And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband; for her may he be defiled. 4 But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people, to profane himself. 5 They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh. 6 They shall be holy unto their God, and not profane the name of their God: for the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and the bread of their God, they do offer: therefore they shall be holy. 7 They shall not take a wife that is a whore, or profane; neither shall they take a woman put away from her husband: for he is holy unto his God. 8 Thou shalt sanctify him therefore; for he offereth the bread of thy God: he shall be holy unto thee: for I the Lord, which sanctify you, am holy. 9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.10 And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes; 11 Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother; 12 Neither shall he go out of the sanctuary, nor profane the sanctuary of his God; for the crown of the anointing oil of his God is upon him: I am the Lord. 13 And he shall take a wife in her virginity. 14 A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife. 15 Neither shall he profane his seed among his people: for I the Lord do sanctify him.16 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. 18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, 19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, 20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; 21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. 22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. 23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the Lord do sanctify them. 24 And Moses told it unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel.

I mean of OT priests married, and Paul nor Jesus commanded against it; where did the command come from? It would appear to be a doctrine of men and not of God-in my opinion.
 
I mean of OT priests married, and Paul nor Jesus commanded against it; where did the command come from? It would appear to be a doctrine of men and not of God-in my opinion.

No...I didn't...I try to avoid laws specific to the Hebrew nation as a theocracy and any attempt at NT churches to be like them.

That said...Glomung pointed out much earlier on this thread:

They don't. The Roman Catholic church decided early on that celibacy was preferred.

Protestants need to understand that in the RCC Tradition and the Bible are of equal weigh, in the majority of cases.
 
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