The Eschatology of Israel

[netchaplain]

The Eschatology of Israel​

It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them!

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding.
NC

 

[BibleLover]

The Eschatology of Israel​

It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them!

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding.
NC

You're right. God is working out two separate programs for the Church and Israel. The Church program is one of grace; Isreal is still under the Law and will remain so until the completion of the Davidic Kingdom (where Christ will be king) at the end of the Millennium. However, the basis for salvation for Gentile or Jew has always been faith and will always remain so.

 

[netchaplain]

You're right. God is working out two separate programs for the Church and Israel. The Church program is one of grace; Isreal is still under the Law and will remain so until the completion of the Davidic Kingdom (where Christ will be king) at the end of the Millennium. However, the basis for salvation for Gentile or Jew has always been faith and will always remain so.

Hi, and always appreciate your replies! It's my understanding that Israel is still in union with God but are out of fellowship with Him, until they see Jesus at the rapture. Presently they have no covenant with God because He "took away" the law and the covenant He had with them; but because they believe in Him, but not His Son, He will restore them, and this time "cause" them to be obedient (Eze 36:27), like God causing the Christian to "please" Him (Phil 2:13).

 

[BibleLover]

Hi, and always appreciate your replies! It's my understanding that Israel is still in union with God but are out of fellowship with Him, until they see Jesus at the rapture. Presently they have no covenant with God because He "took away" the law and the covenant He had with them; but because they believe in Him, but not His Son, He will restore them, and this time "cause" them to be obedient (Eze 36:27), like God causing the Christian to "please" Him (Phil 2:13).

The Law is still in effect for Israel except that the Law of Moses was expounded on by Jesus during the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapters 5-7. He raised the standard of compliance to include not just actions but also thoughts and intentions. The only reason Israel remains under the Law is because the Jews refuse to accept the offer of grace that Jesus extends. Those who accept his offer become fulfilled Jews and remove themselves from the curse of the Law.

 

[netchaplain]

The Law is still in effect for Israel

Didn't God take away the first covenant, in order to establish the second covenant (Heb 10:9)? Thanks!

 

[BibleLover]

Didn't God take away the first covenant, in order to establish the second covenant (Heb 10:9)? Thanks!

Not yet, the first covenant remains in force for Israel until Christ returns and establishes the Millennial Kingdom and sits on David's throne. At that time God will write his laws on the hearts of the Jews. Remember, the Church was never under the Mosaic Covenant (1st covenant) because that covenant was made only with Israel, not with the Gentile nations.

 

[netchaplain]

Not yet, the first covenant remains in force for Israel

I don't think there can be an Old Covenant and a New Covenant, hence Heb 10:9; also Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 8:13.

 

[BibleLover]

I don't think there can be an Old Covenant and a New Covenant, hence Heb 10:9; also Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 8:13.

The only people under the new covenant are saved people. Unsaved people are still under the Law. Until they repent, they have no claim to any grace. So, there you have two covenants operating at the same time, depending on who is affected.

 

[netchaplain]

The only people under the new covenant are saved people. Unsaved people are still under the Law. Until they repent, they have no claim to any grace. So, there you have two covenants operating at the same time, depending on who is affected.

I was trying to say that nobody is under the law because it is gone. Thanks.

 

[Indentured Servant]

The Eschatology of Israel​

It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them!

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding.
NC

Israel committed adultery, God divorced her, and promised to return to her as her Husband. This is an essential part of scripture, but is not taught because of established doctrines which teach that Christians have taken Israel's place.

Preachers want only to repeat from the doctrinal playbook of our self-appointed theologians. Those who find error in church doctrine that does not align with Scripture are typically asked to leave the church, remain silent, or accept traditional preaching.

There is not one church that will allow me to teach scripture, unless it has been "filtered" by doctrinal popularity.

 

[bobinfaith]

Israel committed adultery, God divorced her, and promised to return to her as her Husband. This is an essential part of scripture, but is not taught because of established doctrines which teach that Christians have taken Israel's place. Preachers want only to repeat from the doctrinal playbook of our self-appointed theologians. Those who find error in church doctrine that does not align with Scripture are typically asked to leave the church, remain silent, or accept traditional preaching. There is not one church that will allow me to teach scripture, unless it has been "filtered" by doctrinal popularity.

Good morning, Indentured Servant;

Preachers who only preach from the "doctrinal playbook" of our self-appointed theologians is lazy. It shuns the prompting of the Holy Spirit. We cannot monitor every minister and hold them accountable but our God sees everything so nothing slips through the cracks, so to speak.

Though we are One Body in Christ, Cities to cities have different issues and God responds to our prayers by appointing His Preachers what message he is to preach. This is spirit led.

We preach God's wrath which is a large part of His unconditional love for us. Israel's adulterous nation and God's wrath also reveal God lovingly forgives and brings His people back to Him. Two examples are Jeremiah and Hosea.

What you shared is a huge statement regarding Preachers or teachers and this caught my attention. How does this tie in with The Eschatology of Israel?

God bless you, Indentured Servant, and thank you for sharing.

 

[Indentured Servant]

Good morning, Indentured Servant;

Preachers who only preach from the "doctrinal playbook" of our self-appointed theologians is lazy. It shuns the prompting of the Holy Spirit. We cannot monitor every minister and hold them accountable but our God sees everything so nothing slips through the cracks, so to speak.

Though we are One Body in Christ, Cities to cities have different issues and God responds to our prayers by appointing His Preachers what message he is to preach. This is spirit led.

We preach God's wrath which is a large part of His unconditional love for us. Israel's adulterous nation and God's wrath also reveals God lovingly forgives and brings His people back to Him. Two examples are Jeremiah and Hosea.

What you shared is a huge statement regarding Preachers or teachers and this caught my attention. How does this tie in with The Eschatology of Israel?

God bless you, Indentured Servant, and thank you for sharing.

In agreement with the OP, I also believe churches don't teach the correct eschatology of Israel. I provided my observation of churches teaching the same, wrong, doctrines.

My point was that the people who teach and preach depend quite significantly on Theologians. I think that is detrimental to understanding this topic, (and many others), In fact, to illustrate my point... Every denomination has its Theologians who, conveniently, they agree with and teach, or give credit to. They follow the theologian(s) who can biblically justify their denominations' doctrinal stance.

Meaning, too many of us lean on what someone else says about scripture. Even in our posts and responses here, our speech reveals denominational or doctrinal, (sometimes dogmatic) catch phrases. Some of the phrases I've heard in specific churches, throughout the years, can be traced back to specific theologians introducing that phrase through a book, a sermon, or even an interview.

I interpreted the OP as opening the door on churches not teaching the correct eschatological view of Israel. I may have gone a bit to the "other side of the curtain," aspect, and certainly apologize if my words offended anyone or if my word choices seemed abrupt.

 

[netchaplain]

Israel committed adultery, God divorced her, and promised to return to her as her Husband. This is an essential part of scripture, but is not taught because of established doctrines which teach that Christians have taken Israel's place.

Hi, and thanks for the supporting truth! Yes, many call it replacement theology or "Supersession." It presently is deceiving many believers. Thankfully, regardless of what one believes about these doctrines it cannot alter their salvation, only their spiritual growth; and I don't see these doctrines concerning Israel's end times ever being accepted, which is of course ok, it not being essential doctrine (teachings related to how to be saved).

 

[BibleLover]

Israel committed adultery, God divorced her, and promised to return to her as her Husband. This is an essential part of scripture, but is not taught because of established doctrines which teach that Christians have taken Israel's place.

Preachers want only to repeat from the doctrinal playbook of our self-appointed theologians. Those who find error in church doctrine that does not align with Scripture are typically asked to leave the church, remain silent, or accept traditional preaching.

There is not one church that will allow me to teach scripture, unless it has been "filtered" by doctrinal popularity.

You should read the book Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie. You'll find yourself not alone. There is an entire hermeneutical system with which you may find yourself in agreement.

 

[bobinfaith]

In agreement with the OP, I also believe churches don't teach the correct eschatology of Israel. I provided my observation of churches teaching the same, wrong, doctrines. My point was that the people who teach and preach depend quite significantly on Theologians. I think that is detrimental to understanding this topic, (and many others), In fact, to illustrate my point... Every denomination has its Theologians who, conveniently, they agree with and teach, or give credit to. They follow the theologian(s) who can biblically justify their denominations' doctrinal stance. Meaning, too many of us lean on what someone else says about scripture. Even in our posts and responses here, our speech reveals denominational or doctrinal, (sometimes dogmatic) catch phrases. Some of the phrases I've heard in specific churches, throughout the years, can be traced back to specific theologians introducing that phrase through a book, a sermon, or even an interview. I interpreted the OP as opening the door on churches not teaching the correct eschatological view of Israel. I may have gone a bit to the "other side of the curtain," aspect, and certainly apologize if my words offended anyone or if my word choices seemed abrupt.

Hi, and thanks for the supporting truth! Yes, many call it replacement theology or "Supersession." It presently is deceiving many believers. Thankfully, regardless of what one believes about these doctrines it cannot alter their salvation, only their spiritual growth; and I don't see these doctrines concerning Israel's end times ever being accepted, which is of course ok, it not being essential doctrine (teachings related to how to be saved).

You should read the book Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie. You'll find yourself not alone. There is an entire hermeneutical system with which you may find yourself in agreement.

This was very interesting and thank you for your constructive views. I agree with BibleLover's recommendation of Dispensationalism by Ryrie which will give you an agreement of unnecessary doctrine.

 

[Indentured Servant]

You should read the book Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie. You'll find yourself not alone. There is an entire hermeneutical system with which you may find yourself in agreement.

I use to read C. Ryrie. His works, among others, occupied some of my personal library; however, I no longer read commentaries, nor do I listen to sermons. (I used to be a "sermon-addict, listening to many each day.)

If your next question is "why..."
I'll only offer that, 20+ years ago, I had the intent of publishing a book showing that scripture supports a specific, mainstream doctrine.
My goal was to not use "common knowledge," nor a "theological mindset" to supplement it. It was to be a Bible-only input and outcome...

I was quote stunned by the fact that a few key factors of the end times are never addressed in any of these doctrines- Israel's eschatology, for one.

And some passages mentioned in the doctrine are interpreted to support the doctrine... The doctrine itself does not exist in Scripture. Everyone would assert, though, that it does and point to verses that mean nothing.

I had taught this doctrine for years, and never knew it just didn't exist in scripture. Israel's part and purpose in the millennium is the reason for the millennium... THAT'S what is missing in theology; hence, that's what's missing in our teaching.

 

[Indentured Servant]

Hi, and thanks for the supporting truth! Yes, many call it replacement theology or "Supersession." It presently is deceiving many believers. Thankfully, regardless of what one believes about these doctrines it cannot alter their salvation, only their spiritual growth; and I don't see these doctrines concerning Israel's end times ever being accepted, which is of course ok, it not being essential doctrine (teachings related to how to be saved).

It may not alter their salvation, but it can lead them to tremendous disappointment when they realize they are not Israel. (referring to gentiles, "Christians")