The First of a Covenant

Abraham (Abram from Macedonia) was the recipient of God's covenant for a new nation (Gen. 17:5), we all know that. But Abraham was not Israel, nor was Isaac. No, it wouldn't be until Jacob, later named Israel(Gen. 32:25), that the first Israelite would be named. Therefore, being that there was no such thing as Israel (outside of God's plan) what were those considered to be of previous generations? Gentile?

NOTE: This is in no way intended to be condescending in nature, by any means. I love and pray for Israel as we are instructed to do by God's Word (see: Romans 10:1).
 
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Abraham (Abram from Macedonia) was the recipient of God's covenant for a new nation (Gen. 17:5), we all know that. But Abraham was not Israel, nor was Isaac. No, it wouldn't be until Jacob, later named Israel(Gen. 32:25), that the first Israelite would be named. Therefore, being that there was no such thing as Israel (outside of God's plan) what were those considered to be of previous generations? Gentile?

NOTE: This is in no way intended to be condescending in nature, by any means. I love and pray for Israel as we are instructed to do by God's Word (see: Romans 10:1).

All men are born wituout a understanding of a unseen God as eternal Spirit. Christian faith is not founded on the things seen the temporal. All of the froward genration the generation of Adam are considered as those of "no faith" in respect to Christ's faith or labor of love. . . a person must be born of His Spirit.

In many circles the idea of "no faith" not little but none can cause confusion. As beleivers we have little .

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith

I would offer,. The Lord used two nations the Amorites and Hittites in order to create one new nation or family of families. Changing the name Abram meaning exulted father (singular) to Abraham the father of many families or nations (all) or what we call denominations, sects.

I believe a way to help identify the bride of Christ, the church throughout the Bible .

Israel came in the changing of Jacob signified as the deceiver who tried to rob Esau the first born ceremonial rights .Jacob literally meaning ….one who grasp the heel of another causing them to fall back .Latter the deceiver signified by the name Jacob deceived Esau, Esua saw no value in the unseen things of God (faith) sold it for a cup of goat soup..

Genisis 25: 26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

Jacob signified as a deceiver that name was changed to Israel to represent mankind born again of the Spirit of Christ. This is seeing if any man has not the Spirit of Christ they do not belong.

.Jacob overcome by the power of God it prevailed to show Emanuel was working with him to both wil and empower to do the god pleasure of God . He failed in the flesh but was rewarded in his new spirit.

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

In that way all Israel were not born again Israel just as not all Christians who name the name Christ are the bride of Christ, the new creation.

In the Old Testament the promise of a new name the father would name the bride to represent all nations presently called Israel. It came to fulfillment in Acts renaming her Christian a more befitting name for the bride of Christ made up of "all the nations of the world". Christian as a demonyn (denotes the natives or inhabitants of a particular country, nation state, city, tribe family etc.)

Christian literally meaning residents of the city of Christ, named after her founder and husband Christ . A word that would seem to have lost meaning in many areas.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

The fullfilment.

Acts 11:26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
 
Jacob signified as a deceiver that name was changed to Israel to represent mankind born again of the Spirit of Christ
Okay, this was not a question in order to invoke replacement theology. God is bigger than either-or. He never stopped loving Israel and we are supposed to pray for their salvation. If what you say were true then we would be instructed by God's Word to pray for our belief before we even know that we do not believe! That would be a lot of Wisdom for a sinner. They will be afforded another opportunity with the Tribulation. Why can't you ever just stay on track without teaching some erroneous doctrine? I can't even agree with the Scripture you provided for all the distortions.
 
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White supremacy holds the view that America is Zion and that they have replaced Israel and are validated in their villainizing of the Jews and others I don't want to get into here. A certain "preacher" who left the church following after this theory of Zionism is the Grand Wizard of the White Knights of the KKK. Replacement is a slippery slope of not permitting a whole nation into the Salvation message. This idiocy would block Christ's forgiveness for all people if they would choose Him. It is Roman, has a spirit of Haman, and is Satanic. If we have replaced Israel then they are excluded. I question anyone's motive in this teaching.
 
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Okay, this was not a question in order to invoke replacement theology. God is bigger than either-or. He never stopped loving Israel and we are supposed to pray for their salvation. If what you say were true then we would be instructed by God's Word to pray for our belief before we even know that we do not believe! That would be a lot of Wisdom for a sinner. They will be afforded another opportunity with the Tribulation. Why can't you ever just stay on track without teaching some erroneous doctrine? I can't even agree with the Scripture you provided for all the distortions.

Thanks, I would offer I do not trust in a doctrine called "replacement theology". I would ask replace what. . . kinds of flesh? In that way the word gentile is simply another word for those who have no faith of Christ as it is written in the book of law, the Bible

In the end of the matter a Jew is not one outwardly of the flesh but inwardly of the Spirit of Christ. Just as in the same way all Israel is not born again Israel or the new name the father named the bride in Acts, Christian. If any man has not the born again Spirit of Christ they simply are not a member of the one bride the church.

In that way like Abel the first martyr pointing to those who are in the Spirit, as the Spirit of Christ’s faith works with them. . . the flesh is made to no effect.

Corrupted flesh under the letter of the law death of any nation has no value in salvation. It is the work of the unseen Sprit that alone can profit as power needed to perform the good pleasure of our unseen Father.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


White supremacy holds the view that America is Zion and that they have replaced Israel and are validated in their villainizing of the Jews and others I don't want to get into here. A certain "preacher" who left the church following after this theory of Zionism is the Grand Wizard of the White Knights of the KKK. Replacement is a slippery slope of not permitting a whole nation into the Salvation message. This idiocy would block Christ's forgiveness for all people if they would choose Him. It is Roman, has a spirit of Haman, and is Satanic. If we have replaced Israel then they are excluded. I question anyone's motive in this teaching.

A unbelieving (no faith) Jews stand in the same place as a unbelieving (no faith ,not little none) gentile

KKK is not the good teaching master as Lord that we must obey as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood the temporal things seen.

Identifying the meaning of a word is not replacing. The word Israel has a meaning as well as the word Christian .One bride one church. All flesh signified as sinful not profitable. Even Jesus the Son of man declared his flesh did not profit . It was the unseen work of the father that did. His word is Spirit and the source of all spirit life .

The KKK is simply blocking there own forgiveness. Its what terrorist do.
 
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Abraham (Abram from Macedonia) was the recipient of God's covenant for a new nation (Gen. 17:5), we all know that. But Abraham was not Israel, nor was Isaac. No, it wouldn't be until Jacob, later named Israel(Gen. 32:25), that the first Israelite would be named. Therefore, being that there was no such thing as Israel (outside of God's plan) what were those considered to be of previous generations? Gentile?

NOTE: This is in no way intended to be condescending in nature, by any means. I love and pray for Israel as we are instructed to do by God's Word (see: Romans 10:1).
I am seriously confused now. I was taught that in essence the covenant was fulfilled thru Isaac and Ishmael. Abraham did not wait for the son of God's promise, so he laid with Hagar and had Ishmael. God made him a great nation as promised and These became the Arabs. Abraham's wife did conceive Isaac who became the Jews (Hence Israel), Thus the saying that Isaac and Ishmael shall always be at enmity. Am I totally out to lunch?
 
Jan 18, 2021
149
107
43
72
Milw. Wisconsin.
I am seriously confused now. I was taught that in essence the covenant was fulfilled thru Isaac and Ishmael. Abraham did not wait for the son of God's promise, so he laid with Hagar and had Ishmael. God made him a great nation as promised and These became the Arabs. Abraham's wife did conceive Isaac who became the Jews (Hence Israel), Thus the saying that Isaac and Ishmael shall always be at enmity. Am I totally out to lunch?
I would offer..

The covenant was defined by the parable using Abraham and Isaac to demonstrate the unseen gospel (the Holy Father and His Son) working as one. .It was performed on mount Mariah the first born seed. The spiritual seed Christ and not after the flesh of Abraham using Ismael. . Ismael is not signified as a son of God a born again believer.


The first born spiritually uses the second born literally to indicate born again or born twice .

The seed Christ came to fulfillment when Jesus was born. . the second Adam. The genealogy was fulfilled. No longer is Jewish flesh necessary to show the work of the first born or called .our bloody husband. The veil is rent the abomination of desolation. Kings, princes and fathers in Israel was made desolate .No hierarchy of man in Christianity. A Pagan foundation. We are the temple not made with human hands
 
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Abraham (Abram from Macedonia) was the recipient of God's covenant for a new nation (Gen. 17:5), we all know that. But Abraham was not Israel, nor was Isaac. No, it wouldn't be until Jacob, later named Israel(Gen. 32:25), that the first Israelite would be named. Therefore, being that there was no such thing as Israel (outside of God's plan) what were those considered to be of previous generations? Gentile?

NOTE: This is in no way intended to be condescending in nature, by any means. I love and pray for Israel as we are instructed to do by God's Word (see: Romans 10:1).
The word “Hebrew” in your Strong’s Concordance means,

an Eberite (that is, Hebrew) or descendant of Eber: – Hebrew (-ess, woman).

The word Hebrew means a descendant of Eber, but it also identifies where the Hebrews came from. The Bible tells us Eber was the son of Shem who was the son of Noah, (Genesis 10:1, 11:11-26). If we continued tracing the family lineage it would take us to Adam and Eve. The family God chose to use in order to spread His Word to the world, (Genesis 5:1-29).

The word Hebrew also identifies the people who later became known as the Israelites, (Twelve Tribes of Israel). The Israelites are the descendants of Jacob whose name was changed by God to Israel, (Genesis 32:28). Of course, Jacob is the son of Issac who was the son of Abraham, and through Jacob would come the Everlasting Promise God made to Abraham, (Genesis 22:17-18).

This word “flood” means,

A stream (including the sea; especially the Nile, Euphrates, etc.); figuratively, prosperity: – flood, river.

Our Heavenly Father brought the Hebrews, Abraham and his family from the other side of the Euphrates River into the land of the Chaldees (Ur). God would later lead Abraham and his family to the land of Canaan (Haran) which was “westward of the Jordan” River, (Genesis 11:26-28,31, Canaan – Smith’s Bible Dictionary).

So before Joshua and the Israelites crossed the Jordan River, Abraham crossed it.

We now know, the Hebrews came from ‘the east crossing over’ from the “other side” of the Euphrates River. Since Abraham was a descendant of Noah, and Noah’s Ark landed on the Mountains of Ararat which is east of the Euphrates, this comes as no surprise, (Genesis 8:4).

Abraham was the father of the Jews and he had sons of which one was named "Jacob. When God named him "Israel," after he wrestled successfully with the angel, "Israel" became the name of our Jewish people. So then, actually, More than Abraham and Isaac, Jacob is really the father.
 
The word “Hebrew” in your Strong’s Concordance means,



The word Hebrew means a descendant of Eber, but it also identifies where the Hebrews came from. The Bible tells us Eber was the son of Shem who was the son of Noah, (Genesis 10:1, 11:11-26). If we continued tracing the family lineage it would take us to Adam and Eve. The family God chose to use in order to spread His Word to the world, (Genesis 5:1-29).

The word Hebrew also identifies the people who later became known as the Israelites, (Twelve Tribes of Israel). The Israelites are the descendants of Jacob whose name was changed by God to Israel, (Genesis 32:28). Of course, Jacob is the son of Issac who was the son of Abraham, and through Jacob would come the Everlasting Promise God made to Abraham, (Genesis 22:17-18).

This word “flood” means,



Our Heavenly Father brought the Hebrews, Abraham and his family from the other side of the Euphrates River into the land of the Chaldees (Ur). God would later lead Abraham and his family to the land of Canaan (Haran) which was “westward of the Jordan” River, (Genesis 11:26-28,31, Canaan – Smith’s Bible Dictionary).

So before Joshua and the Israelites crossed the Jordan River, Abraham crossed it.

We now know, the Hebrews came from ‘the east crossing over’ from the “other side” of the Euphrates River. Since Abraham was a descendant of Noah, and Noah’s Ark landed on the Mountains of Ararat which is east of the Euphrates, this comes as no surprise, (Genesis 8:4).

Abraham was the father of the Jews and he had sons of which one was named "Jacob. When God named him "Israel," after he wrestled successfully with the angel, "Israel" became the name of our Jewish people. So then, actually, More than Abraham and Isaac, Jacob is really the father.
Thank you, Major.
 
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I am seriously confused now. I was taught that in essence the covenant was fulfilled thru Isaac and Ishmael. Abraham did not wait for the son of God's promise, so he laid with Hagar and had Ishmael. God made him a great nation as promised and These became the Arabs. Abraham's wife did conceive Isaac who became the Jews (Hence Israel), Thus the saying that Isaac and Ishmael shall always be at enmity. Am I totally out to lunch?

Yes.

The child that came from Abraham and Ismael was an illigetimate child. Abraham and Hagar were not married. The children from Ishmael went on to be the fathers of the Arab nations is true. However......the covenant was NOT fulfilled through the Arab nations as the root of there existance is the sin of adultery which God would never approve.

Isaac is the fruit of the child of the legal marriage between Abraham and Sarah and though HIM was the covenant fulfilled and through his line would come the Messiah.

The promise of the land of Israel and the redemption of the peoples of the earth through his son with Sarah:

Gen. 17:15-16..........Then God said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.”
This is important. God’s promise to Abraham was directly connected to the land of Israel. It was to be fulfilled through his son, Isaac, the firstborn of Sarah through who came the nation of Israel, the Jewish people and the redeeming Savior of the peoples of the earth, Jesus Christ.

Because you asked... Joel Richardson, author and teacher of eschatology, describes it this way:

“So now we have this story: Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael is a fourteen year old boy. He’s kicked out into the desert but the Lord is faithful. He preserves him. He promises to make him into a great nation. So we read these things and they’re interesting Bible stories but what I’m asking you to do is to put yourself in the position and recognize the fact that in history, in real time, this was a real boy… with real emotions, with a real life. This happened to a little kid named Ishmael. And so what we need to understand is you have this little boy and… he had a dad. He had a mother. He had a family. He had a life. He had an inheritance. And in one day he loses all of these things. He loses his dad. He loses his inheritance. He’s out in the desert. He’s on his own. And that brokenness, that woundedness, that rejection that took place in this little child, today, has been passed on into the religion of Islam.
What do I mean? … Mohammed, the founder of Islam… claims to be a direct descendant of Ishmael and Muslims, today, view themselves as both the physical and the spiritual descendants of Ishmael. And so here you have this story, this incredible event that took place in this child’s life. Two thousand six hundred years after these events took place, a direct descendant of Ishmael named Mohammed birthed forth a new religion into the world. And what does the religion teach? … It teaches God is not a father. God has no Son. And, thirdly, Ishmael, not Isaac, is the heir with regard to the promises of God to the earth. The very things that those issues of rejection and woundedness and brokenness that took place in Ishmael’s life were preserved in that line and two thousand six hundred years later, a man named Mohammed goes into a cave, has an incredibly dark encounter with some sort of spiritual being. It literally chokes the life out of him to where he feels as though he’s going to die, three times this presence comes over him and it demands of him to recite… On the third time, the words of the Qur’an begin to flow forth from his mouth.
Mohammed, himself, literally believed that he was demon-possessed. He was suicidal. He was terrified.”
Isaac and Ishmael: The Origin of Middle East Conflict and the Foundation for Understanding Eschatology – P2ALM
 
Jan 14, 2021
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Yes.

The child that came from Abraham and Ismael was an illigetimate child. Abraham and Hagar were not married. The children from Ishmael went on to be the fathers of the Arab nations is true. However......the covenant was NOT fulfilled through the Arab nations as the root of there existance is the sin of adultery which God would never approve.

Isaac is the fruit of the child of the legal marriage between Abraham and Sarah and though HIM was the covenant fulfilled and through his line would come the Messiah.

The promise of the land of Israel and the redemption of the peoples of the earth through his son with Sarah:


This is important. God’s promise to Abraham was directly connected to the land of Israel. It was to be fulfilled through his son, Isaac, the firstborn of Sarah through who came the nation of Israel, the Jewish people and the redeeming Savior of the peoples of the earth, Jesus Christ.

Because you asked... Joel Richardson, author and teacher of eschatology, describes it this way:


Isaac and Ishmael: The Origin of Middle East Conflict and the Foundation for Understanding Eschatology – P2ALM
Yes. That is my understanding. I knew that Ishmael was illegitimate and thus not the child of God's choice. The illegitimate would always have hatred for the rightful heir so to speak, thus the cause of the friction between these peoples.
 
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Yes. That is my understanding. I knew that Ishmael was illegitimate and thus not the child of God's choice. The illegitimate would always have hatred for the rightful heir so to speak, thus the cause of the friction between these peoples.

You see......today have we (society) changed reality but God has not. People today look at a woman having a child when she is not married and say.....no big deal. But it is a big deal in God's eyes. Because Ismael was born outside of wedlock, he was never going to be able to be the son of promise. If he had been, then God's plan on one man, one woman to have children within the confines of that marriage would have been a lie. It has to be Isaac for that reason.