The Nature of Christ

Hobie said:
Gods Word shows different..

Genesis 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Genesis 6:9
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Job 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:8
And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Revelation 14:5
And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
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Those Scriptures do not mean "sinless" or actually "Perfect".
Gen 5:24 does not say specifically anything about Perfect. Enoch’s removal is expressed as "he was not, for God took him." So then, He was not any longer in this world as he was changed, as the saints shall be at the Rapture who are alive at Christ’s second coming.

Gen. 6:9 again does not say "sinless". It specifically says "perfect in his generations". I would have to say that it points to Noah's moral and spiritual integrity, indicating that he and his family remained steadfast in their faith amidst a culture of moral decay. We need to remember what the Scriptures say about that time and that "men did all the sins of their heart". Without a doubt, Noah stood out as a righteous and blameless man in the sight of God.

In Job 1:1 we see that Hebrew word used for "perfect" is "tam," which can also be translated as "blameless" or "innocent." This does not mean, or does it imply that Job was sinless, but rather that he was a man of integrity, having a heart that was wholly devoted to God. He was also described as "upright," emphasizing his moral rectitude and commitment to living according to the principles of righteousness and justice.

Now in Job 1:8 Job was not literally blameless. He was such a righteous man, that we was described by God as blameless. I believe he was blameless by comparison to everything around him much as was Noah. We need to interpret passages in their context.

As for Rev. 14:5, "No guile and no fault" does not mean sinless. The word translated "blameless" is the Greek amōmoi, which describes an animal that has passed inspection and is qualified to be a sacrifice because it has no defect.
The 144,000 in view in that Scripture are not sinless, they cannot be rightfully accused of any lies or wrongdoing.

I just did not want anyone to think that there are men who are/were sinless. They distinction belongs to only one, the God-Man, Jesus the Christ.
 
Major said:
Those Scriptures do not mean "sinless" or actually "Perfect".
Gen 5:24 does not say specifically anything about Perfect. Enoch’s removal is expressed as "he was not, for God took him." So then, He was not any longer in this world as he was changed, as the saints shall be at the Rapture who are alive at Christ’s second coming.

Gen. 6:9 again does not say "sinless". It specifically says "perfect in his generations". I would have to say that it points to Noah's moral and spiritual integrity, indicating that he and his family remained steadfast in their faith amidst a culture of moral decay. We need to remember what the Scriptures say about that time and that "men did all the sins of their heart". Without a doubt, Noah stood out as a righteous and blameless man in the sight of God.

In Job 1:1 we see that Hebrew word used for "perfect" is "tam," which can also be translated as "blameless" or "innocent." This does not mean, or does it imply that Job was sinless, but rather that he was a man of integrity, having a heart that was wholly devoted to God. He was also described as "upright," emphasizing his moral rectitude and commitment to living according to the principles of righteousness and justice.

Now in Job 1:8 Job was not literally blameless. He was such a righteous man, that we was described by God as blameless. I believe he was blameless by comparison to everything around him much as was Noah. We need to interpret passages in their context.

As for Rev. 14:5, "No guile and no fault" does not mean sinless. The word translated "blameless" is the Greek amōmoi, which describes an animal that has passed inspection and is qualified to be a sacrifice because it has no defect.
The 144,000 in view in that Scripture are not sinless, they cannot be rightfully accused of any lies or wrongdoing.

I just did not want anyone to think that there are men who are/were sinless. They distinction belongs to only one, the God-Man, Jesus the Christ.
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Until we turn from sin and are 'born again' and turn to Christ in our path to sanctification, there is sin in our lives. Look at what Paul says in this struggle..
Romans 7:20
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

The road to sanctification doesnt begin at perfection, we must overcome the sin and iniquity with Christs help....

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
 
Hobie said:
What does overcome sin mean....
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You deflected my question... which was DO YOU believe a person can reach a point where they NO LONGER sin?? YES or NO.

However... from your other post... I believe I have the answer to that question and I am not willing to engage in this conversation.

AGAIN... I bless YOU.
 
In Awe of Him said:
You deflected my question... which was DO YOU believe a person can reach a point where they NO LONGER sin?? YES or NO.

However... from your other post... I believe I have the answer to that question and I am not willing to engage in this conversation.

AGAIN... I bless YOU.
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With God, all things are possible so the answer is clear. When Christ comes and you continue in sin and iniquity, He will let you know what is your fate if you dont stop sinning. Those who continue in sin are not following Christ, but another...

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
 
Hobie I asked you a simple QUESTION.... YES or NO.... and you continue to play word games.

This is NOT poker... you need to be transparent with your agenda before starting a conversation.

I will gracefully bow out at this point and let others deal with this topic.
 
Read your Bible, its not word games, its Gods truth, the wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If you continue to sin till the end, Christ will give you the wages, but people try to get around it.
 
Now, if you truly turn to Christ, the Holy Spirit will transform you, and you will overcome sin and be ready for when Christ declares probation has closed...

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
 
Hobie said:
Until we turn from sin and are 'born again' and turn to Christ in our path to sanctification, there is sin in our lives. Look at what Paul says in this struggle..
Romans 7:20
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

The road to sanctification doesnt begin at perfection, we must overcome the sin and iniquity with Christs help....

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Click to expand...
Hobie, I think that we are saying the same thing. ....the "sin nature" is with all of us until the Rapture or death. Being born again does not destroy the sin nature.

That is exactly what Romans 7 is saying.

Sanctification begins in the believer after justification and means "being set apart".
 
Hobie said:
Read your Bible, its not word games, its Gods truth, the wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If you continue to sin till the end, Christ will give you the wages, but people try to get around it.
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1 Peter 3:15.......
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man who asketh you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear."

You said.......
"If you continue to sin till the end, Christ will give you the wages, but people try to get around it."

Nope....that is not an answer. It is an ambiguous comment.
 
Hobie said:
Now, if you truly turn to Christ, the Holy Spirit will transform you, and you will overcome sin and be ready for when Christ declares probation has closed...

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Click to expand...
Hobie......allow me to simplify this quandary for you. The born again Christian does not stop sinning. Every single human being is born with a sin nature and it is with us till we die. Once we’re saved, it doesn’t take long to discover that we still sin.

At our conversion, we were set free from the penalty of sin, through justification. Now, through sanctification, we are being progressively delivered from the power of sin. But only when we are glorified will we be free from the presence of sin forever.

1 Tim. 1:15...........
“The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

That is why Paul said in Romans 7:20........
"If I do the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin that dwells in me”.

By the way.....there is NO church doctrine in the Revelation that applies to us today!!!!
 
the sinless perfection of the Christian is the finial stage of our sanctification. 1st stage positional saved baptized into the Body of Christ by one spirit are we baptized. 2. progressive we grow in the grace and knowledge a work in progress we stay on the potters wheel . 3 finial/ultimate God calls us home we get a glorified body and live a sinless life
 
forgiven61 said:
the sinless perfection of the Christian is the finial stage of our sanctification. 1st stage positional saved baptized into the Body of Christ by one spirit are we baptized. 2. progressive we grow in the grace and knowledge a work in progress we stay on the potters wheel . 3 finial/ultimate God calls us home we get a glorified body and live a sinless life
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Indeed, as we reach our sinless perfection state once we have received our glorified physical bodies, as at that time that ole pesky sin nature will be dead on arrival finally
 
Major said:
Hobie......allow me to simplify this quandary for you. The born again Christian does not stop sinning. Every single human being is born with a sin nature and it is with us till we die. Once we’re saved, it doesn’t take long to discover that we still sin.

At our conversion, we were set free from the penalty of sin, through justification. Now, through sanctification, we are being progressively delivered from the power of sin. But only when we are glorified will we be free from the presence of sin forever.

1 Tim. 1:15...........
“The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

That is why Paul said in Romans 7:20........
"If I do the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin that dwells in me”.

By the way.....there is NO church doctrine in the Revelation that applies to us today!!!!
Click to expand...
To Hobie though Revelation tells the tale of the Sda as the spiritual true remnant church fighting the good fight against wicked Rome in end times
 
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