Theology

In our sciences we will ask a troubled child to draw pictures or tell stories to try and better understand what is going on with that child. We study painting or literature to better understand intriguing individuals. We must be careful not to approach scripture the same way. Have you ever observed a child trying to second guess or manipulate an adult? How much greater is God the creator of all intellect.
The Word is not subject to analysis but requires believing. Faith is not a product of intellectual acuity.
 
Hello 2404, I think that I understand what you are saying, as I am well-aware that there are parts of God's word that we simply cannot wrap our finite minds fully around.

The Trinity of the Godhead is something that comes immediately to mind in regard to this. The church formulated the doctrine of the Trinity to circumscribe and safeguard the truth that the Bible teaches us about the Godhead, not to explain it, because that is simply beyond any of us. We, nevertheless, believe that this "mystery" (of the Godhead) is true, because the Bible tells us that it is.

On the other hand, there are topics which I think God wants us to explore deeply to gain a greater knowledge and understanding of for a number of different reasons, which is why He commands us (through the pen of the Apostle Paul) to learn to rightly divide His word, yes .. e.g. 2 Timothy 2:15. If we don't, then what do we do with verses like these, for instance (IOW, with verses that we simply cannot fully understand w/o some additional help from other parts of the Bible)?

Luke 14
26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."
1 Timothy 2
15 Women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - if I have missed the point that you are actually trying to make in your OP, please tell me what it is. Thank you :)
 
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Papa Smurf thank you for your thoughts and consideration.
I can relate to what you are saying for of course we are all in this together. But also let me add a thought. Consider, God gave us a word for a purpose. Surely His purpose is not to confuse us us but to instruct us so the understanding must be available if we would approach it in the right manner. I don't mean to be critical but let me say something about the trinity doctrine. This doctrine is a resolution from the confines of our existence. Consider all creation is a point, we are a point in space, planets, angels, everything created has a focal point but the Creator is not so, true He can and does express Himself in focal points but He is not limited by it. We know that God is omnipotent and omniscient now if we think what that means is that all molecular movement in the universe is under control and I'm sure that that doesn't even scratch the surface... Certainly we can't begin to understand that so let us not double guess the Word and use the word trinity when God says He is ONE. Typically the talk is three persons in one God head - well three persons is not 'one'.
I'm not looking to be contentious so I try to focus on the things we can agree on.
Again thank you for your reply and God bless you brother.
 
Papa Smurf thank you for your thoughts and consideration. I can relate to what you are saying for of course we are all in this together. But also let me add a thought. Consider, God gave us a word for a purpose. Surely His purpose is not to confuse us but to instruct us so the understanding must be available if we would approach it in the right manner.
Hello again Brother, I agree that what we need to know and understand to be saved (the Gospel) is, PTL, not complex (after all, even young children have/continue to come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ). However, the Christian faith is more than the Gospel message, and much of that secondary level of Christianity (if you will) is quite complex and anything but simple to understand, especially at first blush (as I'm sure you'd agree, yes?).

While much of this secondary level Christianity can be fully comprehended by us as we grow in sanctification (as we deepen our knowledge and understanding of God and His word), there are still a number of things that the Bible tells us about that we cannot fully grasp.

We refer to these things as "mysteries" (things that we cannot fully explain, but that we believe are true nevertheless, because the Bible tells us that they are). The Bible refers to them as the "secret things" of God, because the fullness of knowledge/understanding about these particular things is for Him alone, at least for now anyway. As He told us through pen of Moses,

Deuteronomy 29
29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.

Finally, I would be happy to discuss the Trinity, the Godhead, and/or the Deity of Christ with you if you'd like to, but I think that we should do so on a different thread, one that is devoted to those topics alone, because such a discussion would surely derail this thread! (I'm a new member, so I was wondering if we are allowed to discuss the Trinity and the Deity of Christ here at CFS? .. I noticed that CFS does not allow for discussion/debate about other controversial topics, like OSAS, Calvinism/Arminianism, etc.)

Thanks :)

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
 
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Hello again Brother, I agree that what we need to know and understand to be saved (the Gospel) is, PTL, not complex (after all, even young children have/continue to come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ). However, the Christian faith is more than the Gospel message, and much of that secondary level of Christianity (if you will) is quite complex and anything but simple to understand, especially at first blush (as I'm sure you'd agree, yes?).

While much of this secondary level Christianity can be fully comprehended by us as we grow in sanctification (as we deepen our knowledge and understanding of God and His word), there are still a number of things that the Bible tells us about that we cannot fully grasp.

We refer to these things as "mysteries" (things that we cannot fully explain, but that we believe are true nevertheless, because the Bible tells us that they are). The Bible refers to them as the "secret things" of God, because the fullness of knowledge/understanding about these particular things is for Him alone, at least for now anyway. As He told us through pen of Moses,

Deuteronomy 29
29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.

Finally, I would be happy to discuss the Trinity, the Godhead, and/or the Deity of Christ with you if you'd like to, but I think that we should do so on a different thread, one that is devoted to those topics alone, because such a discussion would surely derail this thread! (I'm a new member, so I was wondering if we are allowed to discuss the Trinity and the Deity of Christ here at CFS? .. I noticed that CFS does not allow for discussion/debate about other controversial topics, like OSAS, Calvinism/Arminianism, etc.)

Thanks :)

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
Well said brother.
A lot of good things have been said.
If you care to start a thread on a specific topic I will comment where I feel led.
God bless.
 
Well said brother.
A lot of good things have been said.
If you care to start a thread on a specific topic I will comment where I feel led.
God bless.
It could be an interesting thread, so I will consider doing creating it. First things first though, I need to figure out if a discussion thread that brings the nature of the Godhead (or the doctrine of the Trinity) and/or the Deity of Christ into question is allowed here CFS.

I'll get back with you once I know the answer to that.

Just FYI, I post on one or two other boards that do not allow members to question the various doctrines that sit at the very heart of the historic/ orthodox Christian faith, the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, the Incarnation, the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, etc., because they consider all of them settled theology (and from what I've seen over the years, this policy makes a lot of sense as, because nothing ever seems to come from debates on those subjects except a lot of poor (ugly) behavior, and that on the part of Christians .. as those who enter the discussion in one camp always leave the discussion with the same beliefs/in the same camp).

Blessings to you in Christ!!

~Papa Smurf
 
I understand what you are saying and respect CFS necessary guide lines.
But only to make a point let me ask you.
Does a general consensus make things right?
If truth lays in a general consensus what then constitutes the battle the Christian is said to be in?
Please understand that I'm not making a judgement call for that is not my business. But I do believe it is wrong to cap revelation and harden ones heart and only stay within ones' comfort zone.
 
Does a general consensus make things right?
If truth lays in a general consensus what then constitutes the battle the Christian is said to be in?
Please understand that I'm not making a judgement call for that is not my business. But I do believe it is wrong to cap revelation and harden ones heart and only stay within ones' comfort zone.
Hello again 2404, "truth" lies with God.

If the "general consensus" of the church changes over time (in regard to some aspect or portion of the "truth"), then it is the church that has walked away from the truth and is wrong. Just ask St. Athanasius (4th Century) or Martin Luther (16th Century) about that the next time you see them ;)

Fortunately, while there seems to be no end to the appearance of new heresies in the history of the church, few have taken hold universally and caused the church to depart from some portion of God's truth. It has happened, of course, and whenever it does, God raises someone up to right the ship (so to speak), men like the two that I just mentioned above, for instance.

You know, we all seem to do little but bicker and fight with one another over this doctrine or that one, and that is a sad thing, but whenever we (the entirety of the visible/historic Christian church, that is, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant) stand together as ONE concerning a particular doctrine/belief, it seems to me that those who disagree not only have cause, but a responsibility to carefully look into the matter again and reconsider their opposing view(s), especially if they are teaching those views to others.

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - another common misconception is the belief that once church doctrine has been established, particularly in the past by the RCC, all of our millions of church doctors, theologians, and pastors over the millennia blindly accept it on that basis alone, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Rather, the doctrines of the church never cease to be closely scrutinized and reexamined, year after year, century after century.

ATHANASIUS CONTRA MUNDUM

 
In our sciences we will ask a troubled child to draw pictures or tell stories to try and better understand what is going on with that child. We study painting or literature to better understand intriguing individuals. We must be careful not to approach scripture the same way. Have you ever observed a child trying to second guess or manipulate an adult? How much greater is God the creator of all intellect.
The Word is not subject to analysis but requires believing. Faith is not a product of intellectual acuity.
Yes that’s true.
If we were to study a painting and literature in order to reflect on our own lives, paintings and other peoples stories( literature) can trigger in us truths and emotions we may not yet be aware of. We than can connect with them better in truth. Love is born.
 
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