Today and Yesterday in hymns

[crossnote]

I am listing two hymns for contrast. The first is one I picked simply looked up 'contemporary Christian music lyrics' and picked the 1st one by Lauren Daigle. Since I noticed it was full of 'I's, I thought to be fair, to pick a song which is also written in the 1st person by Sigmund Von Birken and August Krull, "Jesus I Will Ponder Now".
Notice the differences between the two including narcissistic/non narcissistic, self centered/God centered, whining to God/adoring God.
This is just one song but I can contrast dozens and dozens which just reflect the insipid condition of the Church today compared to yesterday.

YOU SAY:

I keep fighting voices in my mind that say I’m not enough
Every single lie that tells me I will never measure up
Am I more than just the sum of every high and every low?
Remind me once again just who I am, because I need to know


You say I am loved when I can’t feel a thing
You say I am strong when I think I am weak
You say I am held when I am falling short
When I don’t belong, oh You say I am Yours
And I believe, oh I believe
What You say of me
I believe


The only thing that matters now is everything You think of me
In You I find my worth, in You I find my identity, ooo-oh


You say I am loved when I can’t feel a thing
You say I am strong when I think I am weak
You say I am held when I am falling short
When I don’t belong, oh You say I am Yours
And I believe, oh I believe
What You say of me
Oh, I believe


Taking all I have and now I'm laying it at Your feet
You have every failure God, and You'll have every victory, ooo-oh


You say I am loved when I can’t feel a thing
You say I am strong when I think I am weak
You say I am held when I am falling short
When I don’t belong, oh You say I am Yours
And I believe, oh I believe
What You say of me
I believe

Oh I believe, yes I believe
What You say of me
Oh I believe

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/l/laurendaiglelyrics/yousaylyrics.html

Jesus I Will Ponder,

1 Jesus, I will ponder now
On Your holy passion;
With Your Spirit me endow
For such meditation.
Grant that I in love and faith
May the image cherish
Of Your suff'ring, pain, and death
That I may not perish.

2 Make me see Your great distress,
Anguish, and affliction,
Bonds and stripes and wretchedness
And Your crucifixion:
Make me see how scourge and rod,
Spear and nails did wound You,
How for them You died, O God,
Who with thorns had crowned You.

3 Yet, O Lord, not thus alone
Make me see Your passion,
But its cause to me make known
And its termination.
Ah! I also and my sin
Wrought Your deep affliction;
This indeed the cause has been
Of Your crucifixion.

4 Grant that I Your passion view
With repentant grieving,
Let me not bring shame to You
By unholy living.
How could I refuse to shun
Ev'ry sinful pleasure
Since for me God's only Son
Suffered without measure?

5 If my sins give me alarm
And my conscience grieve me,
Let Your cross my fear disarm;
Peace of conscience give me.
Help me see forgiveness won
By Your holy passion.
If for me He slays His Son,
God must have compassion!

6 Graciously my faith renew;
Help me bear my crosses,
Learning humbleness from You,
Peace mid pain and losses.
May I give You love for love!
Hear me, O my Savior,
That I may in heav'n above
Sing Your praise forever.

Source: Lutheran Service Book #440

Jesus, I Will Ponder Now

Authoritative information about the hymn text Jesus, I Will Ponder Now, with lyrics, audio recordings, MIDI files, printable scores, PDF files, and piano resources.

hymnary.org

 

[Garee]

Interesting differences. I have witnessed the new and what is called the old

There is a great sight called “Cyper Hymnal” on line free .Artist .music and words

One caught my attention written by an American Indian .The Lone Ranger and Tonto my youth superheroes . My first dynamic duo. Today the Father and the Son.

Samason Occom—sometimes given as Ockum or Occum—was a Mohican Indian (the tribe immortalized in James Fennimore Cooper’s Last of the Mohicans).

He came to Christ under George Whitefield around 1740, and was educated by Revs. Eleazor Wheelock and Benjamin Pomeroy.

In 1748, he moved to Montauk, Long Island, New York, where he worked among a remnant of Indians there. In 1759, he was ordained a Presbyterian minister.

In 1766–67, he traveled to England. As he was the first Indian preacher who had visited there, he drew immense audiences. In a little over a year, he preached four hundred sermons (including one for John Newton at Olney), and collected over $45,000 for his cause of an Indian Charity School, but Eleazor Wheelock betrayed Occom and used the funds to purchase land for himself and help fund what is now Dartmouth College.

Occom spent his later life among the Indians on Long Island, and, from 1786 on, in Oneida County, New York.

Awaked by Sinai’s awful sound,
My soul in bonds of guilt I found,
And knew not where to go;
Eternal truth did loud proclaim,
The sinner must be born again,
Or sink to endless woe.

Amazed I stood, but could not tell
Which way to shun the gates of hell,
For death and hell drew near;
I strove, indeed, but strove in vain;
The sinner must be born again
Still sounded in my ear.

When to the law I trembling fled,
It poured its curses on my head;
I no relief could find.
This fearful truth increased my pain;
The sinner must be born again
O’erwhelmed my tortured mind.

Again did Sinai’s thunders roll,
And guilt lay heavy on my soul,
A vast oppressive load;
Alas, I read and saw it plain,
The sinner must be born again,
Or drink the wrath of God.

The saints I heard with rapture tell
How Jesus conquered death and hell,
And broke the fowler’s snare;
Yet when I found this truth remain,
The sinner must be born again,
I sank in deep despair.

But while I thus in anguish lay,
The gracious Savior passed this way,
And felt His pity move;
The sinner, by His justice slain,
Now by His grace is born again;
And sings redeeming love.

To Heaven the joyful tidings flew,
The angels tuned their harps anew,
And loftier sounds did raise;
All hail the Lamb that once was slain,
Unnumbered millions born again,
Shall shout Thy endless praise.

 

[crossnote]

Thanks Garee that one came through loud and clear

 

[Major]

I am listing two hymns for contrast. The first is one I picked simply looked up 'contemporary Christian music lyrics' and picked the 1st one by Lauren Daigle. Since I noticed it was full of 'I's, I thought to be fair, to pick a song which is also written in the 1st person by Sigmund Von Birken and August Krull, "Jesus I Will Ponder Now".
Notice the differences between the two including narcissistic/non narcissistic, self centered/God centered, whining to God/adoring God.
This is just one song but I can contrast dozens and dozens which just reflect the insipid condition of the Church today compared to yesterday.

YOU SAY:

I keep fighting voices in my mind that say I’m not enough
Every single lie that tells me I will never measure up
Am I more than just the sum of every high and every low?
Remind me once again just who I am, because I need to know


You say I am loved when I can’t feel a thing
You say I am strong when I think I am weak
You say I am held when I am falling short
When I don’t belong, oh You say I am Yours
And I believe, oh I believe
What You say of me
I believe


The only thing that matters now is everything You think of me
In You I find my worth, in You I find my identity, ooo-oh


You say I am loved when I can’t feel a thing
You say I am strong when I think I am weak
You say I am held when I am falling short
When I don’t belong, oh You say I am Yours
And I believe, oh I believe
What You say of me
Oh, I believe


Taking all I have and now I'm laying it at Your feet
You have every failure God, and You'll have every victory, ooo-oh


You say I am loved when I can’t feel a thing
You say I am strong when I think I am weak
You say I am held when I am falling short
When I don’t belong, oh You say I am Yours
And I believe, oh I believe
What You say of me
I believe

Oh I believe, yes I believe
What You say of me
Oh I believe

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/l/laurendaiglelyrics/yousaylyrics.html

Jesus I Will Ponder,

1 Jesus, I will ponder now
On Your holy passion;
With Your Spirit me endow
For such meditation.
Grant that I in love and faith
May the image cherish
Of Your suff'ring, pain, and death
That I may not perish.

2 Make me see Your great distress,
Anguish, and affliction,
Bonds and stripes and wretchedness
And Your crucifixion:
Make me see how scourge and rod,
Spear and nails did wound You,
How for them You died, O God,
Who with thorns had crowned You.

3 Yet, O Lord, not thus alone
Make me see Your passion,
But its cause to me make known
And its termination.
Ah! I also and my sin
Wrought Your deep affliction;
This indeed the cause has been
Of Your crucifixion.

4 Grant that I Your passion view
With repentant grieving,
Let me not bring shame to You
By unholy living.
How could I refuse to shun
Ev'ry sinful pleasure
Since for me God's only Son
Suffered without measure?

5 If my sins give me alarm
And my conscience grieve me,
Let Your cross my fear disarm;
Peace of conscience give me.
Help me see forgiveness won
By Your holy passion.
If for me He slays His Son,
God must have compassion!

6 Graciously my faith renew;
Help me bear my crosses,
Learning humbleness from You,
Peace mid pain and losses.
May I give You love for love!
Hear me, O my Savior,
That I may in heav'n above
Sing Your praise forever.

Source: Lutheran Service Book #440

Jesus, I Will Ponder Now

Authoritative information about the hymn text Jesus, I Will Ponder Now, with lyrics, audio recordings, MIDI files, printable scores, PDF files, and piano resources.

hymnary.org

I for one appreciate your post!!!!!

This is something that I have spoken about for a very long time. I have also lost many friends because of my stance on Contemporary music.

The truth is that There are many that do not understand why anyone could be opposed to Contemporary Christian Music.
The questions are, Is it not the music that is played on most Christian radio stations and the music that is available in most Christian bookstores and the music used in churches across the denominational divide? Does it not sing of Jesus Christ and grace and is it not lifted in praise of the living God? How could something so popular and sincere be wrong?

Some have said that I am an old fuddy duddy and in many cases that is correct. However it should be understood that I like new things better than old things in many cases. I stay at the cutting edge of technology, for example. I mean---- I AM writing and posting thoughts on a COMPUTER in my house!!!! My car has an AIR CONDITIONER. I own 3 COLOR TV'S. I OWN A smart PHONE! We have INDOOR bathrooms!!!

But when it comes to my “religion,” I do like it old for the simple fact that it is old. The newest part of my Bible and my Christian faith is 2,000 years old! Bible truth is not contemporary and it will never be considered cool by the world unless it is distorted. Thus I am committed to the old Bible and the old Paths that are taught therein AND I make no apologies for that!

It is by the old Standard that I must test every new thing. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thess. 5:21).

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11).

To build upon your post crossnote, may I add that In this spirit, I have examined the contemporary music and the movement that it represents extensively and have prayerfully tested it with Scripture. Following are four of the reasons that I say what I have said..........

1. Contemporary Christian Music is worldly music.

2. Contemporary Christian Music is ecumenical music.

3. Contemporary Christian Music is charismatic music.

4. Contemporary Christian Music weakens the fundamentalist stance of a church.

 

[crossnote]

To build upon your post @crossnote, may I add that In this spirit, I have examined the contemporary music and the movement that it represents extensively and have prayerfully tested it with Scripture. Following are four of the reasons that I say what I have said..........

1. Contemporary Christian Music is worldly music.

2. Contemporary Christian Music is ecumenical music.

3. Contemporary Christian Music is charismatic music.

4. Contemporary Christian Music weakens the fundamentalist stance of a church.

I was first introduced to CM in 1974. Then it was still in it's infancy and many songs were taken right out of Scripture, especially the Psalms. Also, most of the 'performers' would keep 'themselves' out of the picture being very careful to give the glory to Jesus and not act like a 'one man Elvis'. It was simple, biblical and edifying.
I think what hurt that scene was that the music industry moved in, had these musicians sign contracts, and then the pressure mounted to perform for big $$ or else.
We don't need to mention what it has devolved into since. SMH

 

[Major]

I was first introduced to CM in 1974. Then it was still in it's infancy and many songs were taken right out of Scripture, especially the Psalms. Also, most of the 'performers' would keep 'themselves' out of the picture being very careful to give the glory to Jesus and not act like a 'one man Elvis'. It was simple, biblical and edifying.
I think what hurt that scene was that the music industry moved in, had these musicians sign contracts, and then the pressure mounted to perform for big $$ or else.
We don't need to mention what it has devolved into since. SMH

I guess I should have been clearer as I do not want to alienate anyone here in any way.

My experience and involvement with CM was seeing it devolve more into a "KISS" type of music presentation than a worship experience.

I have as many been moved by worship songs that are repetitive and YES as I stood and raised my hands in worship and I think that is a wonderful experience.

However.....when it progresses beyound to a rock and roll kind of presentation where the BEAT and music is louder than the words sung....I turn away.

 

[crossnote]

I have as many been moved by worship songs that are repetitive and YES as I stood and raised my hands in worship and I think that is a wonderful experience.

Sorry, never been to a KISS concert. (They were after my time. lol)

However.....when it progresses beyound to a rock and roll kind of presentation where the BEAT and music is louder than the words sung....I turn away.

Oh sure, I agree. With me the words are paramount (how else are we to edify one another in song?)
But to be fair, I can listen to some of these Chorales out of Westminster or Oxford etc., and still can't make out the words in the midst of the vocals blending.

 

[Siloam]

I have noticed that a lot of contemporary Christian hymns are centered around UNCHANGED lives, what Christ has done for the individual irrespective of changes to their lives.

But, many of the older hymns are about responding to Christs love with changed choices, with true worship and desire for service in explicit contrast to their former lives.

A preacher I heard a few years ago said that there is no unchristian music, only unchristian lyrics. I understand his message, but some genres of music do not lend themselves to evoking reverence or servant-hood or even Christ centered fellowship. Maybe my ears aren't in tune with today. But, that is still OK with me.

 

[crossnote]

I have noticed that a lot of contemporary Christian hymns are centered around UNCHANGED lives, what Christ has done for the individual irrespective of changes to their lives.

Great observation.. Reflecting on some of the modern preaching..."Come to Jesus, he can get you a girlfriend, or get you a better job".

 

[Lanolin]

I can't really tell the difference between CCM and other CM.

I prefer gospel spiritual songs that tells the story. Like Wade in the Water or When the Saints go Marching In.
Or even corny rap songs like MC Hammer 'Pray'

It goes
We got to pray just to make it today
That's why we pray
Pray
Pray
Pray
We got to pray just to make it today

(over and over with lots of dancing in between)

If a church is putting on a rock concert I'm out the door cos it just hurts my ears. And I'm not that old. Grunge/rock music was never my thing and I'm not sure why church had to start getting into it as well. Sorry CCM. I never bought into it. Amy Grant can sing baby baby but you can't tell if she's singing about her baby or her boyfriend or baby Jesus.

 

[bobinfaith]

I am listing two hymns for contrast. The first is one I picked simply looked up 'contemporary Christian music lyrics' and picked the 1st one by Lauren Daigle. Since I noticed it was full of 'I's, I thought to be fair, to pick a song which is also written in the 1st person by Sigmund Von Birken and August Krull, "Jesus I Will Ponder Now". Notice the differences between the two including narcissistic/non narcissistic, self centered/God centered, whining to God/adoring God. This is just one song but I can contrast dozens and dozens which just reflect the insipid condition of the Church today compared to yesterday.

Hello crossnote;

Excellent thread! Praise and Worship music is an integral part of the service. For the music minister the lyrics are just as important because it's also like preaching to the congregation, but in song.

I have always been open to various forms of praise and worship music but have a hard time today appreciating fast, progressive rock or rap in a Christian praise and worship setting.

I grew up playing in a rock and top 40 dance band during the late 60s and most of the 70s. The Doobie Brothers, Steely Dan, Earth Wind and Fire, the Bee Gees, etc...was music we enjoyed listening to. Before that was Gerry and the Pacemakers, the Classics IV, Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Iron Butterfly, Creedence Clearwater Revival. We enjoyed and learned most of their songs.

Either I liked the songs or I didn't and the funny thing is, it wasn't the lyrics that influenced me, but the originality of the music. If you all remember, the music was so creative back then. Problem with me regarding all those songs was, I wasn't filled with the Holy Spirit.

When I got involved with the music ministry in the mid-70s, I found myself phasing from secular music and became more familiar with hymns and contemporary Christian music. One of my former pastors was also a worship musician, trained me to be cautious with the lyrics of contemporary praise and worship music for these reasons; I learned that many Christian musicians are not saved, don't know one end of the Bible to the other and admit praise and worship is good business. I began to learn this by their choice of lyrics. By the late 90s we were prayerful by what songs we would lead each Wednesday and Sunday.

As Major shared, "I have also lost many friends because of my stance on Contemporary music." This is sad and I can relate to what our brother shared. Back in the 90s a former member of 27 years left our church unannounced because she opposed the praise team adding a drummer. This hurt the pastor as there was no communication. She just left. As a matter of fact the new drummer was a sister in Christ, was not obnoxiously loud and kept a steady 4x4 time. Her participation in the praise team opened the door in her growth and faith in Christ.

I'm not saying this of all music ministers who are indeed anointed.

So when I'm in attendance of a praise and worship part of the church service, and should the style of fast, progressive rock or rap disagree with me or if I cannot understand the lyrics, out of reverence to God, I don't have to like it, but will stand still and remain prudishly silent in prayer.

God always knows what is going on in His church and it could be this form of music and/or lyrics could actually lead someone to Christ. It can happen! But the music ministry must also be careful as the wrong lyrics (or even style that hinders the leading could kill the presence of the Holy Spirit.)

God bless you, crossnote and your family.

 

[crossnote]

Hello crossnote;

Excellent thread! Praise and Worship music is an integral part of the service. For the music minister the lyrics are just as important because it's also like preaching to the congregation, but in song.

I have always been open to various forms of praise and worship music but have a hard time today appreciating fast, progressive rock or rap in a Christian praise and worship setting.

I grew up playing in a rock and top 40 dance band during the late 60s and most of the 70s. The Doobie Brothers, Steely Dan, Earth Wind and Fire, the Bee Gees, etc...was music we enjoyed listening to. Before that was Gerry and the Pacemakers, the Classics IV, Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Iron Butterfly, Creedence Clearwater Revival. We enjoyed and learned most of their songs.

Either I liked the songs or I didn't and the funny thing is, it wasn't the lyrics that influenced me, but the originality of the music. If you all remember, the music was so creative back then. Problem with me regarding all those songs was, I wasn't filled with the Holy Spirit.

When I got involved with the music ministry in the mid-70s, I found myself phasing from secular music and became more familiar with hymns and contemporary Christian music. One of my former pastors was also a worship musician, trained me to be cautious with the lyrics of contemporary praise and worship music for these reasons; I learned that many Christian musicians are not saved, don't know one end of the Bible to the other and admit praise and worship is good business. I began to learn this by their choice of lyrics. By the late 90s we were prayerful by what songs we would lead each Wednesday and Sunday.

As Major shared, "I have also lost many friends because of my stance on Contemporary music." This is sad and I can relate to what our brother shared. Back in the 90s a former member of 27 years left our church unannounced because she opposed the praise team adding a drummer. This hurt the pastor as there was no communication. She just left. As a matter of fact the new drummer was a sister in Christ, was not obnoxiously loud and kept a steady 4x4 time. Her participation in the praise team opened the door in her growth and faith in Christ.

I'm not saying this of all music ministers who are indeed anointed.

So when I'm in attendance of a praise and worship part of the church service, and should the style of fast, progressive rock or rap disagree with me or if I cannot understand the lyrics, out of reverence to God, I don't have to like it, but will stand still and remain prudishly silent in prayer.

God always knows what is going on in His church and it could be this form of music and/or lyrics could actually lead someone to Christ. It can happen! But the music ministry must also be careful as the wrong lyrics (or even style that hinders the leading could kill the presence of the Holy Spirit.)

God bless you, crossnote and your family.

Thanks Bob for sharing that. It reflects much maturity in the Lord. Even though I love all types of music (including rap, blues, folk etc.) it's just that some is not conducive for worship...and don't put me up to sing unless you want to clear out the sanctuary including the bats in the belfry. lol